The Islamization of Europe?

[Universal Mind]

I got an email with the speech below, and I found it pretty shocking. I have heard and read that Islam is growing and really showing up on the radar in Europe, but to what extent is it happening, and how powerful are the radical elements? Other points are covered also. If you don't want to read all of it, you can read a few parts and get the idea. Here's the speech... In a generation or two, the US will ask itself: Who lost Europe ?' > Here is the speech of Geert Wilders, Chairman, Party for Freedom, the Netherlands , at the Four Seasons, New York , introducing an Alliance of Patriots and announcing the Facing Jihad Conference in Jerusalem . > > Dear friends, > > Thank you very much for inviting me. > > I come to America with a mission. All is not well in the old world. There is a tremendous danger looming, and it is very difficult to be optimistic. We might be in the final stages of the Islamization of Europe. This not only is a clear and present danger to the future of Europe itself, it is a threat to America and the sheer survival of the West. The United States as the last bastion of Western civilization, facing an Islamic Europe. > > First I will describe the situation on the ground in Europe . Then, I will say a few things about Islam. To close I will tell you about a meeting in Jerusalem . > > The Europe you know is changing. > > You have probably seen the landmarks. But in all of these cities, sometimes a few blocks away from your tourist destination, there is another world. It is the world of the parallel society created by Muslim mass-migration. > > All throughout Europe a new reality is rising: entire Muslim neighborhoods where very few indigenous people reside or are even seen. And if they are, they might regret it. This goes for the police as well. It's the world of head scarves, where women walk around in figureless tents, with baby strollers and a group of children. Their husbands, or slaveholders if you prefer, walk three steps ahead. With mosques on many street corners. The shops have signs you and I cannot read. You will be hard-pressed to find any economic activity. These are Muslim ghettos controlled by religious fanatics. These are Muslim neighborhoods, and they are mushrooming in every city across Europe . These are the building-blocks for territorial control of increasingly larger portions of Europe , street by street, neighborhood by neighborhood, city by city. > > There are now thousands of mosques throughout Europe . With larger congregations than there are in churches. And in every European city there are plans to build super-mosques that will dwarf every church in the region. Clearly, the signal is: we rule. > > Many European cities are already one-quarter Muslim: just take Amsterdam , Marseille and Malmo in Sweden . In many cities the majority of the under-18 population is Muslim. Paris is now surrounded by a ring of Muslim neighborhoods. Mohammed is the most popular name among boys in many cities. > > In some elementary schools in Amsterdam the farm can no longer be mentioned, because that would also mean mentioning the pig, and that would be an insult to Muslims. > > Many state schools in Belgium and Denmark only serve halal food to all pupils. In once-tolerant Amsterdam gays are beaten up almost exclusively by Muslims. Non-Muslim women routinely hear 'whore, whore'. Satellite dishes are not pointed to local TV stations, but to stations in the country of origin. > > In France school teachers are advised to avoid authors deemed offensive to Muslims, including Voltaire and Diderot; the same is increasingly true of Darwin . The history of the Holocaust can no longer be taught because of Muslim sensitivity. > > In England sharia courts are now officially part of the British legal system. Many neighborhoods in France are no-go areas for women without head scarves. Last week a man almost died after being beaten up by Muslims in Brussels , because he was drinking during the Ramadan. > > Jews are fleeing France in record numbers, on the run for the worst wave of anti-Semitism since World War II. French is now commonly spoken on the streets of Tel Aviv and Netanya , Israel . I could go on forever with stories like this. Stories about Islamization. > > A total of fifty-four million Muslims now live in Europe . San Diego University recently calculated that a staggering 25 percent of the population in Europe will be Muslim just 12 years from now. Bernhard Lewis has predicted a Muslim majority by the end of this century. > > Now these are just numbers. And the numbers would not be threatening if the Muslim-immigrants had a strong desire to assimilate. But there are few signs of that. The Pew Research Center reported that half of French Muslims see their loyalty to Islam as greater than their loyalty to France . One-third of French Muslims do not object to suicide attacks. The British Centre for Social Cohesion reported that one-third of British Muslim students are in favor of a worldwide caliphate. Muslims demand what they call 'respect'. And this is how we give them respect. We have Muslim official state holidays. > > The Christian-Democratic attorney general is willing to accept sharia in the Netherlands if there is a Muslim majority. We have cabinet members with passports from Morocco and Turkey . > > Muslim demands are supported by unlawful behavior, ranging from petty crimes and random violence, for example against ambulance workers and bus drivers, to small-scale riots. Paris has seen its uprising in the low-income suburbs, the banlieus. I call the perpetrators 'settlers'. Because that is what they are. They do not come to integrate into our societies; they come to integrate our society into their Dar-al-Islam. Therefore, they are settlers. > > Much of this street violence I mentioned is directed exclusively against non-Muslims, forcing many native people to leave their neighborhoods, their cities, their countries. Moreover, Muslims are now a swing vote not to be ignored. > > The second thing you need to know is the importance of Mohammed the prophet. His behavior is an example to all Muslims and cannot be criticized. Now, if Mohammed had been a man of peace, let us say like Ghandi and Mother Theresa wrapped in one, there would be no problem. But Mohammed was a warlord, a mass murderer, a pedophile, and had several marriages - at the same time. Islamic tradition tells us how he fought in battles, how he had his enemies murdered and even had prisoners of war executed. Mohammed himself slaughtered the Jewish tribe of Banu Qurayza. If it is good for Islam, it is good. If it is bad for Islam, it is bad. > > Let no one fool you about Islam being a religion. Sure, it has a god, and a here-after, and 72 virgins. But in its essence Islam is a political ideology. It is a system that lays down detailed rules for society and the life of every person. Islam wants to dictate every aspect of life. Islam means 'submission'. Islam is not compatible with freedom and democracy, because what it strives for is sharia. If you want to compare Islam to anything, compare it to communism or national-socialism, these are all totalitarian ideologies. > > Now you know why Winston Churchill called Islam 'the most retrograde force in the world', and why he compared Mein Kampf to the Quran. The public has wholeheartedly accepted the Palestinian narrative, and sees Israel as the aggressor. I have lived in this country and visited it dozens of times. I support Israel . First, because it is the Jewish homeland after two thousand years of exile up to and including Auschwitz, second because it is a democracy, and third because Israel is our first line of defense. > > This tiny country is situated on the fault line of jihad, frustrating Islam's territorial advance. Israel is facing the front lines of jihad, like Kashmir, Kosovo, the Philippines , Southern Thailand, Darfur in Sudan , Lebanon , and Aceh in Indonesia . Israel is simply in the way. The same way West-Berlin was during the Cold War. > > The war against Israel is not a war against Israel . It is a war against the West. It is jihad. Israel is simply receiving the blows that are meant for all of us. If there would have been no Israel , Islamic imperialism would have found other venues to release its energy and its desire for conquest. Thanks to Israeli parents who send their children to the army and lay awake at night, parents in Europe and America can sleep well and dream, unaware of the dangers looming. > > Many in Europe argue in favor of abandoning Israel in order to address the grievances of our Muslim minorities. But if Israel were, God forbid, to go down, it would not bring any solace to the West It would not mean our Muslim minorities would all of a sudden change their behavior, and accept our values. On the contrary, the end of Israel would give enormous encouragement to the forces of Islam. They would, and rightly so, see the demise of Israel as proof that the West is weak, and doomed. The end of Israel would not mean the end of our problems with Islam, but only the beginning. It would mean the start of the final battle for world domination. If they can get Israel , they can get everything. So-called journalists volunteer to label any and all critics of Islamization as a 'right-wing extremists' or 'racists'. In my country, the Netherlands , 60 percent of the population now sees the mass immigration of Muslims as the number one policy mistake since World War II. And another 60 percent sees Islam as the biggest threat. Yet there is a greater danger than terrorist attacks, the scenario of America as the last man standing. The lights may go out in Europe faster than you can imagine. An Islamic Europe means a Europe without freedom and democracy, an economic wasteland, an intellectual nightmare, and a loss of military might for America - as its allies will turn into enemies, enemies with atomic bombs. With an Islamic Europe, it would be up to America alone to preserve the heritage of Rome , Athens and Jerusalem . > > Dear friends, liberty is the most precious of gifts. My generation never had to fight for this freedom, it was offered to us on a silver platter, by people who fought for it with their lives. All throughout Europe , American cemeteries remind us of the young boys who never made it home, and whose memory we cherish. My generation does not own this freedom; we are merely its custodians. We can only hand over this hard won liberty to Europe 's children in the same state in which it was offered to us. We cannot strike a deal with mullahs and imams. Future generations would never forgive us. We cannot squander our liberties. We simply do not have the right to do so. > > We have to take the necessary action now to stop this Islamic stupidity from destroying the free world that we know. > > Please take the time to read and understand what is written here, Please send it to every free person that you know, it is so very important. What do you (especially Europeans) think?

[Spartiate]

Although I'm not too familiar with how imposing Islam is in Europe, I do know that the guy who made that speech is an ultra-right wing leader of a Dutch nationalist party that has some tendencies towards fascism. I think that racism is rising faster in Europe than any problems associated with Islam. Ever see how black football players get treated there? I think that if a country stays true to democracy, equality and the Western justice system, the more radical elements of Islam will never take hold. There's no need to become ultra-segregationist and try to get a Fourth Reich going in Europe.

[Thatperson]

ultra-right wing leader of a Dutch nationalist party that has some tendencies towards fascism I hope you're not reffering to Geert Wilders, he is one of the most liberal politicians I know (apart from immigration issues) Strange how most liberals, especially gays, are so pro diversity/multiculturalism, then as a result homophobic attacks increae substantially.

[Spartiate]

I hope you're not reffering to Geert Wilders, he is one of the most liberal politicians I know (apart from immigration issues) Strange how most liberals, especially gays, are so pro diversity/multiculturalism, then as a result homophobic attacks increae substantially. The Party for Freedom combines economic liberalism with a conservative programme towards immigration and culture. The party seeks tax cuts (€16 billion in the 2006 election programme), de-centralization, abolition of the minimum wage, and limiting child benefits and government subsidies. Regarding immigration and culture, the party believes that the Judeo-Christian and humanist traditions should be treated as the dominant culture in the Netherlands, and that immigrants should adapt accordingly. The party wants a halt to immigration from non-western countries. It is skeptical towards the EU, is against future EU enlargement with countries like Turkey and opposes a dominant presence of Islam in the Netherlands.[25] The party is also opposed to dual citizenship (see below). Sounds pretty right-wing to me...

[IndigoGhost]

Where i live the school i went to was 95% UK Legitimate kids, now its more like 40% legitimate and 60% not, so yes i would say immigration is a huge problem, not just by Islam but from everyone.

[Max ツ]

This speech enraged me to a point that I am having difficulty not posting insulting comments here. Clearly, this is a biased speaker, with no knowledge of Islam. He is a racist, an insult to all Muslims. Please do not believe whatever this guy speaks. I have been to Europe ever since I was eight. All I can say is that this guy lives in a dung-hole somewhere down the city or something, he has no idea of what is going around. Most of the people I meet are friendly and do not have any problems with Muslims at all. So what if the population is increasing? This holds true for Islamic countries as well. Here in Saudi Arabia, around 30 percent of our classmates are non-Muslims and foreigners. We don't practice any racism towards them, rather, we accept them and integrate with them. It sounds to me like this guy's real objective was to insult and discriminate Islam, and not the rising population. He did a pretty bad job in masking it. I have read the whole speech, and I can easily counter each and everyone of his pathetic arguments. But what is the use of wasting my time with bullshit like this? I could also compose a long chain mail, that goes on and on about the discrimination of Muslims and the horrible situations they face at the hands of non-Muslims, but really, I have got better things to do.

[Universal Mind]

But what is the use of wasting my time with bullshit like this? I could also compose a long chain mail, that goes on and on about the discrimination of Muslims and the horrible situations they face at the hands of non-Muslims, but really, I have got better things to do. The stuff is being said, even publicly by prominent European politicians. I am giving people a golden opportunity to argue your side of the argument on an internet forum site.

[Invader]

Hm, read it all.. Is it only immigration that's upping the number of Muslims? I thought there was also something about native Europeans converting as well. Incidents like beating a man who drinks on another person's fasting holiday is unforgivable. I've had to say this before, to another who argued against me. Only time will tell. But let's imagine that this scenario is panning out the way the author is describing it (as it may be the case, I can't tell if he's really biased against or genuinely scared, or..). What would you do in this kind of situation, UM, when the problem is due to imigration? Would one resort to closing the borders to a religious group, or find ways of preserving their own laws so that they are not overridden by religious laws..? And what would be the consequences of each decision? Is there any real way to win without violence if a group really is determined to rule over all others? Well, there's the spread of information, and schools of philosophy to teach to open the worldview of every individual..

[Hot Chocolate]

The stuff is being said, even publicly by prominent European politicians. I am giving people a golden opportunity to argue your side of the argument on an internet forum site. The problem is that people that vote for Wilders aren't mixed in these discussions. It appears to me that they won't listen to reason.

[Thatperson]

Sounds pretty right wing to me Maybe he is right wing economically, but hardly hardly "Ultra-right" you make him sound like Hitler or something. Clearly, this is a biased speaker Location: Saudi Arabia lol... Most of the people I meet are friendly and do not have any problems with Muslims at all. So what if the population is increasing? Maybe you're the one who's been living in a hole if you think no one has problems with muslims. Indeed, if no one has problems with muslims then how come his party is now the third largest in the netherlands? On the issue of population rising, well this is more a matter of immigration in general which carries with it many problems of its own, regardless of who's coming.

[Hot Chocolate]

Maybe he is right wing economically, but hardly hardly "Ultra-right" you make him sound like Hitler or something. He's more left-wing economically, he has a lot in common with the SP (socialist party) in that area.

[Taosaur]

He's more left-wing economically, he has a lot in common with the SP (socialist party) in that area. If the wiki article is accurate, those are pretty much the opposite of what we'd call liberal economics in the USA--"tax cuts (€16 billion in the 2006 election programme), de-centralization, abolition of the minimum wage, and limiting child benefits and government subsidies." At any rate, this fellow definitely comes off as an ideologue fighting his own Holy War. There's a Muslim diaspora right now because half the world's grievances have been fought out on their doorstep for 40+ years and the bomb blasts are ruining the ambiance. It's all part of a vast Muslim conspiracy to not die on fire.

[Philosopher8659]

Ants pissing on a forest fire. There is only one true dysfunction of the human mind, work on that and everything follows. The greatest tragedy is that those who bitch the most about others are the very ones maintaining the problem. But then, there always have been few true carpenters who could remove that beam from one's own eye. Cults of personality have always sprung up and trampled the very ground where flowers were meant to grow.

[Hot Chocolate]

For your information, Wilders won 24 out of 150 seats in last week election, which makes him the third biggest party. He's now trying to form a government with the conservative liberal VVD and the Christian democratic CDA, but it's likely to fail because the CDA isn't willing to talk yet. Update: it's just been announced that that coalition failed, Wilders will now almost surely come in the opposition.

[Universal Mind]

What would you do in this kind of situation, UM, when the problem is due to imigration? Would one resort to closing the borders to a religious group, or find ways of preserving their own laws so that they are not overridden by religious laws..? And what would be the consequences of each decision? Is there any real way to win without violence if a group really is determined to rule over all others? Well, there's the spread of information, and schools of philosophy to teach to open the worldview of every individual.. If radical Islam really gets to be a problem in Europe, I think the European countries should put a complete stop to immigration for a while. Just singling out Muslims would start a world war, and it would be really hard to determine who is radical and who is not in a screening process for radicals. People wanting to destroy Western civilization are a very big deal. I know that sucks for good Muslims and other good people who want citizenship in European countries, but a war is going on. It's serious business. I also don't think Sharia Law should ever be enacted anywhere. It is a severe imposition on the rights of those who don't want it. I believe in fundamental rights, and Sharia does not respect most of them.

[Invader]

Sounds like the ideal first step then is to preserve the national law as being held over any other laws. Although that should be obvious. Sharia law cannot stand up in court when it violates the rights (recognized by the nation) of a free human being. The question is, are there any documented cases of Sharia law being upheld in a court of law against the law of the country when both laws conflict?

[Universal Mind]

I don't know. That's a good question.

[Max ツ]

Incidents like beating a man who drinks on another person's fasting holiday is unforgivable. I've had to say this before, to another who argued against me. I agree. But there is also a number of violent actions taken against Muslims by atheists and others as well. So is it fair to say that, "An atheist somewhere killed an innocent Muslim. All atheists are a blood-thirsty community."? Do you get my point now? Clearly, this is a biased speaker Location: Saudi Arabia lol... You insult yourself by saying such an ignorant and short-sighted thing. Please think before you post. Maybe you're the one who's been living in a hole if you think no one has problems with muslims. Indeed, if no one has problems with muslims then how come his party is now the third largest in the netherlands? There IS a majority of people like you in there, ya know? I believe in fundamental rights, and Sharia does not respect most of them. Such as?

[Invader]

I agree. But there is also a number of violent actions taken against Muslims by atheists and others as well. So is it fair to say that, "An atheist somewhere killed an innocent Muslim. All atheists are a blood-thirsty community."? Do you get my point now? But I never claimed that Muslims were bloodthirsty based on the actions of an individual. This is directed at me, right? All I was saying was that the beliefs of a group should not be imposed on other groups that do not share those beliefs. That is all. That is the solution for peace.

[SKA]

Geert Wilders is a frustrated, racist instigator. He likes to stir up the shit and segregate our society into camps. We have had some problems with integration here in Holland where groups of Islamic immigrants wouldn't learn our language and have trouble mixing into our society. Geert Wilders is not helping to bridge the gap between them and the rest of society. In fact he's been driving a wedge between them and the rest of society. What about making efforts to bridge the gaps between people of different cultures? How's spreading alot of hate and conflict going to help to contribute in any positive way to society? He's been spreading nothing but hate about them. Nice way to radicalise a group of segregated immigrants. Nice way to stir up an ultranationalist, racist movement of agressive and incredibly dumb Dutchmen. Nice way to split society in 2 and set it on fire. I don't know if there are more Dutchmen in this topic, but I can assure you that many of Geert Wilders supporters are violent, blatantly racist, lowly intelligent people. Geert came with screamingly racist proposals such as letting Muslimas pay tax for wearing a headscarf (!!!!!..!) and displacing the population of my city Rotterdam to assure that every street contains at least 50% Dutch households (in other words moving and spreading people of non-dutch ethnicities around to stop neighborhoods from "islamization" ) What's your next wonderfull plan Geert? Building a special neighborhood with a fence around it especially for muslims? Or maybe your next plan is to legally force all Muslims to wear a sown on Sickle shaped moon-symbol on their clothes and silly hats and an "M" in their passports? My country can only fear the next unashamed facist, racist, destructive plan that Mr Wilders' deeply disturbed mind produces. Having an Israeli father, alot of Israeli family and having been in Israel plenty of times I think I have a bit better understanding of Islamic terror than most people here in in Holland. I have spoken with people that have survived 3 suicide bombings from close enough to experience the slaughter, spoke plenty of those that lost loved ones in such attacks, heard the craziest, cruelest personal experiences of my father with Islamic terrorism and in the arab israeli war, I've family that live in a village that quite occasionally gets bombed with mortars from the mountains just across the border by a bunch of jolly good fellows calling themselves Hizbollah. I more than most Dutchmen know that Islamic terror is no myth and is very real. Allthough I cannot say such things take place here. At all. If they did hell would be uppon us continuously for a long time. We should allways be vigilant and as prepared as we can be to defend ourselves, but let's let it never become an excuse for any politican to take away civil liberties from and impose martial law on us. And let it become no excuse to treat entire groups of population less than the rest due to a certain ethnic/religious background. Geert is simply abusing the fear of the people to gain a position of absolute power not much different from that of any aspiring dictator. He's intentionally instigating a national chaos, fueled by racism and nationalism to break the established order and out of the chaos he'll forge his new order: his absolute rule. And so far he's doing terrifyingly well.

[Thatperson]

Lucidmax, how would you like it if 1,000,000+ Jews/Christians moved to saudi arabia setting up 1,000 synagouges/churchs, how would you like it if miniskirts were commonly worn clothing in mecca, medina and jeddah, with these people always speaking English/hebrew with occasional broken arabic when needed, what if certain streets of riyadh were off limits for muslims. What if people constanly spat on the streets. What if the majority of these immigrants had a loathing for saudi arabia and showed disrepect at any oppertunity. What if most meat sold was non halal, and you had to travel far for a specialist halal meat shop. WHAT IF, these miniskirt/vest wearing, alcohol drinking, promiscuous (compared to saudi standards) people claimed to be just as saudi as you.

[Xei]

It's kinda funny how the climate in the Third Reich is retrospectively considered with such disbelief, when the seeds of such a climate of paranoia are so clearly seen in the modern world with all of this 'Islamisation of Europe' stuff. Speaking for my own experience in the UK: outside of the big cities, there are very few Muslims. There were a couple in my year at school, but they certainly weren't first generation immigrants. They were totally integrated with the community and were nice, funny, normal people. I feel a bit ridiculous having to talk about them in this way. At uni there are perhaps 3 or 4 in my year, and again, they are normal people. There's also the same kind of number of Jewish people who are just as nice, but if anything I'd say they are more cliquey than the Muslims. Basically there's no huge influx of Muslims, and even if there were, the people of Islam are no more inherently undesirable than people of other religions, or indeed just people in general, so who cares?

[Universal Mind]

All right, now we've got some Europeans in here telling us what they see. That's educational. If Wilders ever starts talking about putting Muslims in concentration camps, which he might end up doing for all I know, he will clearly not be acting with good intentions and will hopefully lose most of his following. Such as? Such as the right to eat bacon, marry non-Muslims, have gay sex, criticize Muhammad, and have a democracy. Those are just a few examples. Do you believe in those rights?

[Max ツ]

@ SKA : Excellent post. Lucidmax, how would you like it if 1,000,000+ Jews/Christians moved to saudi arabia setting up 1,000 synagouges/churches? I seriously do not have any objections. I like to mix with people from other countries. I also don't mind any churches or temples or anything, as long as they don't practice racism. If they live peacefully, then they can practice their faith however they want. For example, on Sundays, there is a gathering in my neighbor's house for customary Hindu ceremonies or whatever. I don't mind the least. I just tell them to do that quietly and please not be too disturbing. Other than that, I am fine with it. how would you like it if miniskirts were commonly worn clothing in mecca, medina and jeddah It would be an insult to wear revealing clothes in the holy cities, when you know you are not supposed to do that. But otherwise, I would love it! ^_^ with these people always speaking English/hebrew with occasional broken arabic when needed Though I am not sure of Hebrew, English is ALREADY very common here, with around 6 or 7 out of 10 average people preferring to speak in English. what if certain streets of riyadh were off limits for muslims. Actually, there ARE some streets in Pakistan, Bahrain and other Muslim countries where Muslims are not allowed to go. It's not there in Saudi Arabia, though, because Saudi Arabia is the center of Islam. But still, there are some non-Muslim-only communities here where Muslims are not allowed to go. What if people constanly spat on the streets. Now that would just be a disgusting act. It's a cleanliness issue, not a religious one. What if the majority of these immigrants had a loathing for saudi arabia and showed disrepect at any oppertunity. Although it's not the majority, but a significant number of immigrants here loath Saudi Arabia for it's strict laws and the limited freedom, such as banning of alcohol and pork. What if most meat sold was non halal, and you had to travel far for a specialist halal meat shop. *sigh* Dude, in most non-Islamic countries, Muslims DO have to do that to get to a Halal shop. But in Saudi Arab, it is not so, as I already said, Saudi Arabia is the center of Islam. The same holds for Rome, though. It's the 'center' of Christianity, so Muslims there have to cope with it. WHAT IF, these miniskirt/vest wearing, alcohol drinking, promiscuous (compared to saudi standards) people claimed to be just as saudi as you. I don't mind, as long as the showed me that they have Saudi Citizenship. Oh, and by the way, I am not Saudi. I just live in Saudi Arabia. ^_^

[Thatperson]

Oh, and by the way, I am not Saudi. I just live in Saudi Arabia. ^_^ lol, I did suspect that after your list of liberalisms, I suspect you're not muslim either, but please correct me if i'm wrong. I'm sure real suadi's (not those with only saudi passports) don't think like you. I'm not sure if you aware of the phrase ""If a dog born in a stable, it doesn't make it a horse" but this general principle is ignored by liberals. Take this news story for example British-mother-and-children-kidnapped-in-Pakistan-for-eight-months-freed Now they clearly are not British, perhaps they hold British passports but by no means are they british.