Thread: The Islamization of Europe?

Oh well. Whatever. Let's just leave it there.

If you have some sort of immigrant fettish then thats fine by me, but it's very arrogant of you to think other people should have to forcefully try to make friends with people who are very hard to make friends with. If you come into my home, you have to follow my rules, if I go to your home I also would have to follow your rules, you may have heard of the phrase "When in Rome, do as the romans do" this principle should apply to immigration aswell. As someone who is in the UK very regulary (99%+ of the time) I can say most people know how it's a situation of "us" and "them" not just the "white-os" but blacks, indians, pretty much everyone who isn't muslim. As i've already said it's not ALL muslims who make no effort whatsoever, just 90-95% of them.

Originally Posted by lucidmax15895

Well, I can kinda understand the "take it lightly" part, but why don't those cartoonists etc also, to quote you, "mind their own business"?

Because they are cartoonists, so they use satire in the form of cartoons to comment on current events and social issues. If you don't like it, don't read the paper with the cartoons. One of the cartoonists had an axe wielding Somalian man burst into his house because of it and hundreds if not thousands of protests and riots and death threats over some measly cartoons. Over-reaction much?

Don't get me wrong. Christianity is a shit religion as much as Islam but the worst Christians got now adays are people like this:





They are cunts, but at least they aren't trying to murder Seth McFarland for satirizing Jesus on Family Guy and American Dad.

Originally Posted by Thatperson

When in Rome, do as the romans do" this principle should apply to immigration aswell. As someone who is in the UK very regulary (99%+ of the time) I can say most people know how it's a situation of "us" and "them" not just the "white-os" but blacks, indians, pretty much everyone who isn't muslim. As i've already said it's not ALL muslims who make no effort whatsoever, just 90-95% of them.

Well it is a little bit over the top to say that proportion of Muslims are not integrating. But when you compare Muslims to West Indians (Jamaicans ) you can see that there are some tell tale signs that one group is not integrating as well as the other Hint: Intermarriage Rates, Riots, Suicide bombings (last one was too obvious)

I say that because events in the past are clues, they don't necessarily speak for the whole dam community but they do offer some telling insights into the state of affairs in one community over another,and do offer something if but a crude indicator of integration.

As for the topic of this thread, I don't think Muslims are going to take over Europe any time soon, but they could and will form a substantial proportion of Europe, at least in the coming decades. Whether they pose a threat to European values, that is an open question. In the long run they may prove assimilable and anyway, the integration woes are properly over exaggerated. The problems with Islam in Europe are more of a class issue over a religious issue since I take it most Muslims who are of immigrant background in Western Europe were imported as "Guest" workers (or their parents) where they filled industrial jobs such as factory work and mining which have since become obsolete (and caused massive unemployment in those communities). These people tended to be the more provincial and backwards their countries had to offer. I do however think immigration from these countries should be stayed.

Has anybody actually taken the time to research the demographics of various European countries? I skimmed through the thread and all I've seen so far are arbitrary percentages. From their wikipedia pages, the United Kingdom has a 2 percent muslim population and the Netherlands has a 5 percent muslim population. It is high compared the the American muslim population of .6 percent, but still miniscule. When the percentages double in ten years, then I'll start worrying.

Most of the statistics are quite old (9 years old for the UK) and has since at least doubled, it's over 4% in the UK as a whole. In england it's over 5%, in London it's well over 10%, whitechapel is over half muslim. Start worrying

In fact the most worrying thing is when you look at age groups, most of them are young, they also reproduce faster, if immigration was completly stopped today then it would still reach into 20%-40% within two generations, and thats assuming all immigration stops today.

Atheism is catching on big time in the United States. Christians have lost their religion here in mass numbers, and it has been happening to European Christians in large numbers too. I wonder if it will ever start happening on a mass level with European Muslims.

Originally Posted by Thatperson

they also reproduce faster

Source?

Most of the statistics are quite old (9 years old for the UK) and has since at least doubled, it's over 4% in the UK as a whole. In england it's over 5%, in London it's well over 10%, whitechapel is over half muslim. Start worrying

In fact the most worrying thing is when you look at age groups, most of them are young, they also reproduce faster, if immigration was completly stopped today then it would still reach into 20%-40% within two generations, and thats assuming all immigration stops today.

Source plz.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Atheism is catching on big time in the United States. Christians have lost their religion here in mass numbers, and it has been happening to European Christians in large numbers too. I wonder if it will ever start happening on a mass level with European Muslims.

Interesting thought. I know I know a fair share of people around my age with Muslims backgrounds who are non-religious/atheist/whatever. (In US)

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

Has anybody actually taken the time to research the demographics of various European countries? I skimmed through the thread and all I've seen so far are arbitrary percentages. From their wikipedia pages, the United Kingdom has a 2 percent muslim population and the Netherlands has a 5 percent muslim population. It is high compared the the American muslim population of .6 percent, but still miniscule. When the percentages double in ten years, then I'll start worrying.

I've read a bunch of stuff online on the subject, didn't trust it. There was a vid saying the average Muslim in Europe was having something like 7 children and what not. I did some searching and I found a BBC article dispelling its claims as fiction. I'm reading a book on the subject since I assume that will be more accurate than what I can find on line.

Here are some projections from the book:

. By 2050, at least 29% of Dutch people will have one foreign parent. Some will be from other European countries, but most about 2.7 million or close to a fifth of the Dutch population will be of non western background. These figures may underestimate the people on non European background because many will be the children of dutch born citizens.

. In 2050, Britain will have 7 million non-whites if migration were to come to a halt today. Oxford demographer David Coleman says it will be 16 million if migration continues at a high level of 108,000 per year. But the author of the book goes on to say that these may be understated because in the middle of the first century of the first decade, Britain was receiving about 500,000 immigrants-equivalent to 1 percent of its population every year. (Of course not all non whites are Muslim, so I caution anyone from interpreting non white to be a euphemism for Muslim)

. By mid century in most major European countries, foreign born will be between 20 and 32 percent (I am assuming that is not including domestically born Muslims?)

This is from "Reflections on the Revolution in Europe", I am assuming the projections have a much more logical basis than say something you would find on youtube. But remember, when it comes to the future, nothing is set in stone.

Originally Posted by Thatperson

In fact the most worrying thing is when you look at age groups, most of them are young, they also reproduce faster, if immigration was completly stopped today then it would still reach into 20%-40% within two generations, and thats assuming all immigration stops today.

That is no quitet true, see above. An actual demographer estimates that by 2050, if immigration were to stop today, the non white population would be at about 7 million. Among these maybe 40% would be Muslim or something around that. So, that is a pure lie unless you can find a more reputable Demographer than Oxford's David Coleman to rebuff those claims.

Originally Posted by Xox

Interesting thought. I know I know a fair share of people around my age with Muslims backgrounds who are non-religious/atheist/whatever. (In US)

That's a good sign. We might have world peace after all.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Atheism is catching on big time in the United States. Christians have lost their religion here in mass numbers, and it has been happening to European Christians in large numbers too. I wonder if it will ever start happening on a mass level with European Muslims.

When Muslims discover that their leaders are a bunch of hypocritical, money hoarding, child rapists too.


Oh yeah, I went there.

You just described the Prophet Mohammed, and he was all those things and didn't even bother hiding it. ^

Originally Posted by lucidmax15895

I believe in those rights. I think that people should have a freedom to chose. But I think that insulting Muhammad is wrong. I believe in a peaceful, non-racist community, and I don't tolerate ANY kind of racism, whether it is targeted towards Muslims or not. Live, and let live. Do you agree?

I agree. But, I also agree that I have a right to draw and say what I want. I think that people who are offended by what I say and draw can tune me out and not give a shit...in other words, let me live while they go about living. I'm not a racist, a bigot, or prejudiced, and I'm sorry if you think I am if I insult Mohammad, but I can and WILL mock him if I so choose. Know that I mean nobody any harm, and I apologize if it is interpreted as such, but...get over it.

Originally Posted by lucidmax15895

Funny how you can say that so easily. I don't know how you can tolerate people who make fun of things others hold sacred. How very insulting. And you ask why Muslims get so enraged. Would you hold silent if someone thoroughly insulted and made fun of your parents? Or someone else for whom you have the utmost respect? No. In the same way, it is highly agonizing for Muslims to see their Prophet insulted in such a way. Please understand that.
I, on the other hand, am against ANY kind of mockery or destructive criticism against ANY one, not only Muslims. People have to learn to respect others' beliefs.

I respect your beliefs. You can believe whatever the hell you want to believe. I'm just not going to let your ideology impinge on my freedom of expression. You can say whatever you want about my parents or anyone else. That's your freedom to express yourself. You can call my mom a raging whore for all I care. It doesn't matter. You aren't harming me, you aren't stepping on my rights. I don't care.

Originally Posted by lucidmax15895

@ Universal Mind : Well, I see your point. I would disagree that "it has been etched into by brain", though, because it is something I am very consciously doing, not because of what I have been taught. I appreciate it that you are considering my views as well. But you know, not all people are like you. You make a joke, but the majority openly INSULT us, not as something humorous. It is outright discrimination and hatred towards Muslims. I am sure you are aware of the "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day" atrocity that took place. While I don't mind jokes without any ill intent behind them that much, I do get furious upon those who do not make "jokes", rather, seek to create even more friction and anger between us.

I thought Draw Mohammad Day was hilarious. Again, it isn't an act of malicious intent...it was an act in mockery of some of the silly, arbitrary things in the Islam religion. Every religion has some element of silliness. Christianity is downright ridiculous on many levels...like, for example, how they choose to enforce the "homosexuality is an abomination" thing but casually overlook everything else in the bible about stoning blasphemers to death and whatnot. Religion itself was the target; not any particular individual or group of individuals.

People have to learn to laugh at themselves and what they believe in. When you can't laugh, you lose it. You just stop functioning. You go insane. Over the centuries, nearly everything has been placed in the scope of comedians. Why not religion? Catholicism is an easy target, and has been making excellent fodder for comedians. Why should Islam be covered in bubble wrap and handled like a delicate piece of china? Why should it be immune? Because some people may get offended? A poor reason. Religion has to be challenged. It has to be criticized and its shortcomings made apparent.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Atheism is catching on big time in the United States. Christians have lost their religion here in mass numbers, and it has been happening to European Christians in large numbers too. I wonder if it will ever start happening on a mass level with European Muslims.

Yay for atheism! ^_^ I believe the 2000 census indicated that 16 to 17 percent of the population is atheist, which is a staggeringly large minority.

Why just pick on Muslims for non-integration tendencies? Just have a look at Spain with its colonies of ex-pat Brits who do nothing to integrate themselves with the indigenous population, steadfastly not bothering to learn the language. It's the same in Dubai, with the majority of Brits sticking to themselves, talking about "Yik-Yaks" (itinerant third-world workers) and steadfastly avoiding learning arabic. (Let it also be said that the indigenous arabs do nothing to change this situation).

So.. I suppose my point is that non-integration is not just a muslim trait: it's a worldwide trait of human beings to stick to their own, to stick to what they know. Everybody is guilty.

well make a thread about the britishisation of spain then :p

Islamisation is the thing which affects a larger amount of countries, affects me and therefore is what i know most about, sure spain probably does have problems with non integrating brits, so why doesn't spain do anything about it then?

Originally Posted by Thatperson

well make a thread about the britishisation of spain then :p

Islamisation is the thing which affects a larger amount of countries, affects me and therefore is what i know most about, sure spain probably does have problems with non integrating brits, so why doesn't spain do anything about it then?

Perhaps because the nonintegrated brits aren't hurting anything, and they're slowly integrating themselves with each successive generation?

Originally Posted by Mario92

Perhaps because the nonintegrated brits aren't hurting anything, and they're slowly integrating themselves with each successive generation?

That sounds familiar, oh wait, you can say that about Muslims in Europe too!

Originally Posted by Hot Chocolate

That sounds familiar, oh wait, you can say that about Muslims in Europe too!

Derrrrrrrrrrr

I'd say they are getting less integrated with each succesive generation, in the first generation they made up generally <5% of where they lived, so were forced to partially integrate, as vast swathes of the UK and I assume the rest of europe were colonised they didn't need to integrate as they had muslims to buy from, to work for etc. In a few generation maybe they won't even speak the native languages of the countries they reside in.

Yeah, that's right, we were colonized. The Muslims came in their large ships and made us their slaves. We're doomed to work on their plantations in the heat of the sun for very little food.

[QUOTE=lucidmax15895;1483110]You also have to understand that drawing pictures of Muhammad insults the WHOLE of the Muslim community, whether be it intended or not. Because we all believe in that, and doing so is an outright insult to us.

Your as bad as a racist with that huge stereotypical judgement. That's all racist people do really. Over sterotypicalise. But 'The WHOLE' of the Muslim community gets offended. Don't be ridiculous, people get offended by things that offend them, and that is on a personal level. It depends on there personality, there mannerisms and there beliefs. What they get offended by depends on how much of a pussy they are. For example, I have a muslim friend, BUT he is cool. So you speak for yourself, you big fat Muslim. Don't think your superior because you belong to a majority group. IF anything that makes your brainwashed no? Yes!

There seems to be 3 types of people arguing on here. The downright morons that think muslims coming into our country is a bad thing, and all the rest of the racist bullshit is the first group. I urge these people to forget the hatred and idiocy that you have been taught by your less evolved elders, and look at it for what it REALLY is. Go ahead, have an open minded look. An intelligent look. And what do you see? That's right, it's just a bunch of people moving around. Look at it close, they're moving to a place that is better for them, where they're more likely to survive. You see! It makes sense, they are people just like us. Wouldn't you do the same? And accept that other people have there own belief, because-well because they do. So accept it! Haha. If you truly are so weak minded that you think YOUR beliefs are threatened by an increase in muslim population, then kill yourself.. Fuck racists. You know when it boils down to it, we're all one. In displaying your racism, your displaying your idiocy. Don't show that part of you if you want people to like you..

You see, the seconds group-the religious ones, mainly muslims on here, are a little more open minded. They realise and accept that people are different, rather than being deluded and scared about it. BUT, they don't think that's ok! Haha. They don't want people to be allowed to form there own opinion, of course they don't, that's why they joined a religion! So they don't have to think about what they truly beleieve in, so they can accept other beliefs, filling a viod in their life, and ultimately making life easier for them. But they lose their souls, and then they lose their uniquness, and finally, the sense of humour goes. Which, some said this on here and it's correct, turns them insane. And in turn, causes this whole argument. Fuck the muslims! For being part of a religion in the first place.

The 3rd group. Well, these are the people that KNOW. We're all one. They know everyone is entitled to their opinion and the right to express that opinion. As if there's actually people that don't believe that, when everyone here is OPENLY discussing there own personal opinions. And most importantly, they have a sense of humour... these are the bastards that make hilarious jokes about how ridiculous religion is. And show their opinion that Mohammed is a dick if that's what they think.. Who the fuck are you to get offended by that? A massive faggot, that's what!

God, so many stupid points on this forum. 'Make jokes that makes everyone laugh' That's impossible!! I think what you religious nuts need to realise, you've lost a part of your mind called logic when you started filling that void in your life with other peoples beliefs. Now, look at it for what it is. Someone has made a joke against your religion. It's not you. Fuck it. I'm sure if you told a joke slaggin off the human race, SOMEONE somewhere would laugh. Stop being so up your own arse just because you think your closer to god than us. Dicks.