A Guide to Galantamine: The Most Effective and Well-Known Dreaming Supplement

**SystemsLock** · 06-24-2012 11:06 AM

Galanta-what?

Galantmine, one of the most effective and well-known dreaming supplements available to the mass market. For those of you who are either unfamiliar or already users, I would like to share with you an overview of the effects this supplement has and the principles on which it works, as well as the basics of proper use, proper safety, and my own personal experience.

I have decided to post this in an effort to get the word out to the average lucid dreamer who does not know about, or has not yet considered, dreaming supplements.

Taken properly, supplements are a powerful tool for improving the quality and ease of attaining a lucid dream. However, they are no silver bullet and all current lucid techniques and practices remain relevant, if not more so. In the words of a Chinese proverb, they will “open the door, but you must enter by yourself”.

So in the interest of that, let us start by asking ourselves…

What makes us dream?

It has long been believed that the 5-HT and cholinergic systems (serotonin and acetylcholine respectively) play a principle role in the meditation of sleep cycles. Throughout a sleep cycle, the dominance of one of these neurotransmitters helps the body transition to and maintains a sleep stage. Serotonin, the neurotransmitter most known for its regulation of mood, is responsible for the deeper non dreaming (NREM) stages of sleep. Acetylcholine, a regulator of sensory stimulus and memory, triggers the lighter and more active stages where we dream (REM).

Of course you are probably wondering…

Why should I care?

For the fledging neurochemist there are benefits to artificially boosting either of these neurotransmitters for both sleep and recreational use.

Increased serotonin can boost sleep quality and mood. Most antidepressants work on this principle as well as supplements sold on store shelves. 5-HTP and melatonin (both members of the 5-HT system) are sold unregulated as natural antidepressants and sleep aids and can work well for that purpose.

On the other side, increased acetylcholine can have a profound effect on the length and quality of dreams. However, supplements affecting the cholinergic system are harder to come by and must be taken properly to achieve effect. Choline salts, alpha-GPC, and huperzine A are all known to work on this system, the best among them being Galantamine.

What does it do?

Galantamine gets right in the middle of the cholinergic system, inhibiting the production of acetylcholinesterase (AChE) the chief chemical responsible for breaking down acetylcholine. In short, it temporarily increases the concentration of acetylcholine in the brain. While asleep this triggers the REM stage immediately and causes you to dream.

Does it work?

Speaking solely from personal experience, I can say with a resounding yes. I have been taking an 8mg dose during my WBTB attempts for several months now. I have not only had profoundly vivid and dynamic dreams but also a high chance of lucidity nearly every night I take it.

The best personal description I can give is like this. A proper lucid dreaming attempt depends on many factors outside of your control. Things such as the sleep stage you renter sleep to, the length and quality of your REM periods, your alertness, motivation and more. What Galantamine does is takes much of that out of the equation. It gives you a guaranteed long and immediate REM stage as soon as you return to sleep. It will not create lucidity for you, but it will certainly tip the odds in your favor.

For those interested in a wake-induced-lucid-dream (WILD) a direct entrance to REM will drastically reduce the time you will have to lie in wait and ultimately guarantee you an eventual entrance into a dream. For those doing a more typical dream-induced-lucid-dream (DEILD) you will be more conscious of your surroundings while dreaming. This will make dream signs easier to identify and irregularities more apparent. Once lucid, you will have up to an hour of high quality uninterrupted dreaming sleep. Even if you fail to obtain lucidity you can look forward to a vivid traditional dream.

Unfortunately, I have personally found it to be a one shot. Galantamine suppresses the deeper sleep stages, so once your REM cycle has ended you are unlikely to complete another sleep cycle. You may be able to return to sleep but without a complete cycle (including deep sleep) you will not renter REM.

How should I take it?

Because of the sleep cycle altering effects of Galantamine, it should not be taken early in the night. Depriving yourself of quality deep sleep early will limit your ability to dream as the night progresses. Because of this, Galantamine is best taken after at least 5 hours of normal sleep. This fits well into the common wake-back-to-bed (WBTB) routine. Galantamine is completely absorbed by your body in about an hour, if taken immediately upon waking you will be ready to return to bed in about that time.
A proper dose ranges from 4mg to 16mg with the most common being 8mg. I found 8mg sufficient for me (160lb male) but everyone has a different response. As always, start with the lowest dose and increase only as necessary.

Galantamine has a long half-life of 7 hours. For an 8mg dose it will take 48 hours to completely leave your body. For this purpose it is best taken only on alternating nights to prevent higher levels from building up in your system. Personally, I limit myself to three uses on alternating nights before breaking for several days. This is to resist tolerance and preserve sleep quality.

Due to the very nature of Galantamine’s effect on sleep, sleep quality may be disturbed. Be sure only to take it on days when you have plenty of time to sleep and are not running a high sleep debt.

What about side effects?

Mild gastrointestinal issues are very common and which I have experienced myself. Eating a small snack along with the Galantamine has relieved this for me completely.

Higher doses of Galantamine and longer WBTB times may make it difficult to return to sleep. If you are a light sleeper try reducing the dose or more preferentially decreasing the time you spend awake. This allows the Galantamine to activate when you are already asleep. Find the right balance that works for you.

Acetylcholine also plays a role in the peripheral nervous system as a muscular stimulant. Galantamine is partially absorbed by the peripheral nervous system and thus may cause some effect. I have only personally experienced this in doses greater than 12mg. It manifests as a slight trembling sensation in the muscles and an urge to move, similar to what you might think of as restless leg syndrome.

Personally I have also noticed some positive effects. Improved motivation, mood, and alertness are apparent and lasting for most of the day following use. Galantamine is a well-known nootropic and is also used for that purpose alone.

Is it legal? Safe?

Speaking only for the United States, Galantamine is legal in the sense that it is unregulated with no known prosecutions or schedule status. It is sold via prescription under the drug name Razadyne and others, however it is widely available online nonprescription.

Galantamine is generally regarded as safe and has been used for decades in Eastern Europe and the USSR for neuromuscular diseases. More recently it has been used in the US for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease and is FDA approved for that purpose. Doses used for these purposes are usually daily and exceed that for lucid dreaming.

Based on data from two studies of patients with mild cognitive impairment, the FDA has issued an alert warning of slow resting heart rate, increased risk of fainting, and possible atrioventricular block in predisposed persons taking Galantamine. However these side effects have rarely led to treatment discontinuation and have not been reported in any studies of healthy persons. If you suffer from any of these conditions please take extra caution when considering if and how to take Galantamine.

If at any time uncomfortable or unusual side effects manifest themselves, reduce or discontinue use immediately. If you suspect an allergic reaction, seek medical help. Galantamine is not for use with proscribed anti-colinergics. Review all drugs you are currently taking for possible interactions with Galantamine. Do not take chances with your health.

Where can I get some? How much does it cost?

Galantamine is best taken either alone or with Choline. Although it is sometimes sold with it, do not take it with melatonin as it will negate the effect. I personally use and can vouch for a combined mixture of 4mg Galantamine 200mg Choline sold under the name Galantamind and is available via Amazon and other websites for around $40 for 90 capsules. You are highly unlikely to find it available in stores and no known supplement store chains carry it or any other form of Galantamine. Although Choline itself is commonly available in stores, it has little effect on its own. Other brands exist and may be cheaper than Galantamind. Choose carefully and try to find some external validation for your source. This is not the place to be penny pinching.

I want to know more.

For those considering taking Galantamine I highly suggest not taking my word for it and doing your own research. The following pages have been very useful for me along with Thomas Yuschak’s book “Advanced Lucid Dreaming: The Power of Supplements”.

Acetylcholine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Serotonin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Galantamine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Galantamine and Choline: A Guide « Lucid All Night
Galantamine Protects Neurons and Memory Following Brain Injury | Life Enhancement Products
Amazon.com: Advanced Lucid Dreaming: The Power of Supplements (9781430305422): Thomas Yuschak: Books

If you have any questions feel free to ask them, or share your personal experiences with Galantamine. If there are any errors or inconsistencies in my post please let me know so I can correct them. Whatever methods you choose to get lucid, good luck to all of you and the furthering of your lucid goals.

**Arch** · 06-24-2012 11:13 AM

A great summary of supplements, could you add something about piracetam, it's pretty good stuff for tollerance.

**SystemsLock** · 06-24-2012 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Arch

A great summary of supplements, could you add something about piracetam, it's pretty good stuff for tollerance.

I know Yuschak's book mentions it. However I found no proper information on its mechanism related to tolerance. I have also not used it myself so I thought it best to leave it out.

**Wolfwood** · 06-24-2012 03:14 PM

Repeatedly increasing the amount of acetylcholine in the synaptic cleft will lead to down-regulation of post-synaptic receptors... Piracetam potentially causes up-regulation of cholinergic receptors, which is in direct in contrast to how tolerance can come about, e.g., through down-regulation of post-synaptic receptors. In a study (Pilch, 1988), mice consumed piracetam for two weeks, and it was discovered that the density of muscarinic cholinergic receptors in their frontal cortex had increased by 30-40% -- effectively lowering tolerance levels to cholinergic neurotransmission.

**gab** · 06-24-2012 08:01 PM

Moved to Lucid Aids.

**ace55** · 06-24-2012 08:13 PM

There is some debate about Galantamine that should be addressed. First off it is still a drug so must be used and looked at as such. Its not an herb or every day vitamin. One may get addicted too it (using it all the time for LDs), and we don't know the long term affects of Galantamine may be for people whom used it for twenty or more years. So we have to play it safe too. 2MG I think is enough if you can get by with just that. I tried Gal and just on 4MG I'm off the wall hyper and can't sleep. 1MG/2MG seem to work and are really light in/out of your system doses. We should also never use Gal as the only way to acheive LDs. Dream Journals, natural herbs, meditation, practice, studys, and improving our memory/awareness should always come first. LD is an art...and the best artists put a lot of natural effort in their work first. No matter what you'll never LD every single day of your life with or without Gal. Gal should be a thing that if you use it, than use it once or twice a week to aid in LDing for those days you dont want to go all out with the above methods, or if you're in a dry spell. If you can take 1MG/2MG with 100MG of Choline nd still get lucid than thats great because you're really not taking a lot of Gal into your system especially at once. I would recommoned pure Gal too with nothing else mixed in than buying Cholien seperate (TwinLabs and Country Life both sell it). There are a few sites I know of that sell Gal.

I only heard about this Thomas Yuschack guy in the last few weeks...and Im wondering why in the last two years or so he's vanished off the face of the earth, and nothing else has been said about his research subjects by him or his associates. Im not seeing any new books or research done by him. His forums are said to be closed along with his websites, and its about unknown where he is. So one has to keep that in mind.

Always check with your doctor if you think something might not work with you even over the counter. And GAL should never be taken by pregnant woman as the bottles themselves state. Be smart when taking it.

Lastly keep in mind Gal has been brought up by the FDA as having a "possible" health risk issue of higher death rate by takers that was being looked into at least back into 2005:

"Galantamine hydrobromide (marketed as Razadyne, formerly Reminyl) Information
FDA ALERT [3/2005]

FDA and other international health authorities are reviewing the safety of Razadyne after data from two clinical studies indicated that people taking the drug had a higher death rate than those taking a placebo (sugar pill). Based on this information, FDA has asked the manufacturer to revise the labeling. Please ask your healthcare provider if Razadyne is right for you.

This information reflects FDA’s preliminary analysis of data concerning this drug. FDA is considering, but has not reached a final conclusion about, this information. FDA intends to update this sheet when additional information or analyses become available."

**SystemsLock** · 06-24-2012 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by gab

Moved to Lucid Aids.

Darn. I had really wanted this to go in the main forum. Oh well.

Originally Posted by ace55

There is some debate about Galantamine that should be addressed. First off it is still a drug so must be used and looked at as such. Its not an herb or every day vitamin. One may get addicted too it (using it all the time for LDs), and we don't know the long term affects of Galantamine may be for people whom used it for twenty or more years. So we have to play it safe too. 2MG I think is enough if you can get by with just that. I tried Gal and just on 4MG I'm off the wall hyper and can't sleep. 1MG/2MG seem to work and are really light in/out of your system doses. We should also never use Gal as the only way to acheive LDs. Dream Journals, natural herbs, meditation, practice, studys, and improving our memory/awareness should always come first. LD is an art...and the best artists put a lot of natural effort in their work first. No matter what you'll never LD every single day of your life with or without Gal. Gal should be a thing that if you use it, than use it once or twice a week to aid in LDing for those days you dont want to go all out with the above methods, or if you're in a dry spell. If you can take 1MG/2MG with 100MG of Choline nd still get lucid than thats great because you're really not taking a lot of Gal into your system especially at once. I would recommoned pure Gal too with nothing else mixed in than buying Cholien seperate (TwinLabs and Country Life both sell it). There are a few sites I know of that sell Gal.

I only heard about this Thomas Yuschack guy in the last few weeks...and Im wondering why in the last two years or so he's vanished off the face of the earth, and nothing else has been said about his research subjects by him or his associates. Im not seeing any new books or research done by him. His forums are said to be closed along with his websites, and its about unknown where he is. So one has to keep that in mind.

Always check with your doctor if you think something might not work with you even over the counter. And GAL should never be taken by pregnant woman as the bottles themselves state. Be smart when taking it.

Lastly keep in mind Gal has been brought up by the FDA as having a "possible" health risk issue of higher death rate by takers that was being looked into at least back into 2005:

"Galantamine hydrobromide (marketed as Razadyne, formerly Reminyl) Information
FDA ALERT [3/2005]

FDA and other international health authorities are reviewing the safety of Razadyne after data from two clinical studies indicated that people taking the drug had a higher death rate than those taking a placebo (sugar pill). Based on this information, FDA has asked the manufacturer to revise the labeling. Please ask your healthcare provider if Razadyne is right for you.

This information reflects FDA’s preliminary analysis of data concerning this drug. FDA is considering, but has not reached a final conclusion about, this information. FDA intends to update this sheet when additional information or analyses become available."

I agree with most of what you said. Galantamine is a drug. But so are natural herbs by the way.

4mg never quite worked well enough for me. I don't get any negative side effects below 12mg. 8mg seems optimal for dreaming but everyone's body is different which is why I suggested starting at the lowest dose.

I mentioned the FDAs comments on Galantamine. These however are studies of people taking daily doses and greater amounts than a lucid dreamer would. It has been used in multiple countries for decades now and regarded as safe.

**ace55** · 06-24-2012 11:47 PM

Natural Herbs like Bacopa and Ginkgo and Rosemary have been around for ages though and well known and tested. In the west Gal is still new and going through the "what happens long term phase". Only hit the market in the 1990s...so we have to be careful. I don't know the affects it will have if I say I take 4MG or 8MG doses two or three times a week for thirty years. Herbs also take time for them work...a few weeks. Not all herbs are good or do anything; I agree there. Drugs like Gal are a "come on now, ware not later" susbtance which kick in fast and end a few hours later. Its just Gal is fairly new in the west, and herbs like Bacopa that will help me with LD's or not (in other words they'll help with better memory/awareness without the hyper feeling and not meant for just one or two things per say). Ahh...Im just saying we have to take Gal light...some people are doing crazy stuff with it like using nicatine patches and mixing it with everything in the world. I feel 2MG is fine for me...anything personally keeps me up all the night on the few experiements I have with it the last two weeks. I just started "trying" it, but its not my gateway too LDs. Ya know...we just have to remember its a small aid and not like Gal be our "Oh can't or won't LD without Gal...better grab the bottle" lolol. I heard A LOT of good things about Galantamine...but heard some of the warnings too. Like anything else play it safe, use it slow, and if anything ask your doctor if you have any concerns.

As for Thomas Y. Im really having a big "?" about him. That book he wrote that a lot of people reference or refere too, and he's vanished. No new books, no new published articles, no forums or websites...no email...no follow ups on his research like "after five years we have found"...nothing. Its like he just...vanished lol. Not bagging on the guy...I just find that very odd. I read Robert Monroe and others and they wrote many articles, books, and radio/tv programs when they did their open research into this stuff. Only stuff I could find on Thomas Y goes back a few years in pdf form of his articles. Nothing new at all, and nothing published in the last year or two that I could find. I believe after about 2009-2010 he left the LD scene without a trace or a reason.

**Empedocles** · 06-25-2012 12:19 AM

I agree with ace55.

This should be further investigated. What's the point of having incredible lucid dreams, when this supplement might affect your health negatively? More studies need to be done on Galantamine without a doubt.

But it's very interesting, nonetheless.

**SystemsLock** · 06-25-2012 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by ace55

Natural Herbs like Bacopa and Ginkgo and Rosemary have been around for ages though and well known and tested. In the west Gal is still new and going through the "what happens long term phase". Only hit the market in the 1990s...so we have to be careful. I don't know the affects it will have if I say I take 4MG or 8MG doses two or three times a week for thirty years. Herbs also take time for them work...a few weeks. Not all herbs are good or do anything; I agree there. Drugs like Gal are a "come on now, ware not later" susbtance which kick in fast and end a few hours later. Its just Gal is fairly new in the west, and herbs like Bacopa that will help me with LD's or not (in other words they'll help with better memory/awareness without the hyper feeling and not meant for just one or two things per say). Ahh...Im just saying we have to take Gal light...some people are doing crazy stuff with it like using nicatine patches and mixing it with everything in the world. I feel 2MG is fine for me...anything personally keeps me up all the night on the few experiements I have with it the last two weeks. I just started "trying" it, but its not my gateway too LDs. Ya know...we just have to remember its a small aid and not like Gal be our "Oh can't or won't LD without Gal...better grab the bottle" lolol. I heard A LOT of good things about Galantamine...but heard some of the warnings too. Like anything else play it safe, use it slow, and if anything ask your doctor if you have any concerns.

As for Thomas Y. Im really having a big "?" about him. That book he wrote that a lot of people reference or refere too, and he's vanished. No new books, no new published articles, no forums or websites...no email...no follow ups on his research like "after five years we have found"...nothing. Its like he just...vanished lol. Not bagging on the guy...I just find that very odd. I read Robert Monroe and others and they wrote many articles, books, and radio/tv programs when they did their open research into this stuff. Only stuff I could find on Thomas Y goes back a few years in pdf form of his articles. Nothing new at all, and nothing published in the last year or two that I could find. I believe after about 2009-2010 he left the LD scene without a trace or a reason.

I haven't really heard any issues with Yuschak but if there are I suppose that's a valid concern. I can assure you I backed up his research with other sources. At the very least we know that Galantamine is FDA approved and is taken daily by large numbers of people. The effects it has are clear and well understood. The only valid issues I could see are from people with preexisting conditions or taking other medications. People in both groups should know enough to consider whether or not they should be taking Galantamine. I made this post for the exact reason of offering correct information to those who might not otherwise be so careful. And for those who still insist on being reckless, in the end you are the only person responsible for your own health.

If Galantamine is safe (as research shows) and is effective (as it appears to be) then I think we should be utilizing it to its fullest.

**slyman** · 09-28-2012 05:22 AM

so after reading up on AChE, choline, ACh etc. i noticed that cannabis is also an AChE inhibitor. this explains a lot for me haha. i'd always notice people saying when they took breaks from cannabis they're dreams became more vivid, it being an inhibitor of AChE would explain this. chronic use of cannabis would likely lead to a down regulation of ACh receptors and when you refrain from smoking the receptors would come back. it also explains how i was having more vivid dreams and lucids on nights i'd smoke when i was only smoking once every week or two.

def gonna pick up some choline tomorrow or this weekend, not really intereseted in galantamine when i can just use cannabis and i don't really like the idea of taking a drug solely for dream enhancement when it leads to down regulation of receptors and whatnot.

**astraldreams** · 11-08-2012 01:49 AM

I like to use Galantamine every once in a while for WBTB, 4mg with 200mg of choline works great for me. I don't like to use it too often, as I don't want to rely on a substance for LDing. But if I ever feel like having a very long and vivid LD this is a good supplement for me, I've only used it a few times and never noticed any negative side effects. Also I experienced my first WILD with Galantamine, I felt much more conscious during the dream state than I ever had before.