Logic

[feross]

Lately I have been pondering the subject of logic. I've been attacking it different ways and comming up with conclusions. This is mainly happened from trying to dream, and trying some psychedelics. I just have one question i'm pretty sure no one can answer. Since the logic center in your brain "shuts down" when you sleep, you dream crazy things. Now, what if you were awake, and you can somehow shut down your logic center. What would be the result of this?

[spockman]

As in you were completely unable to process the natural course of events? Probably kill yourself, by accident.

[ty4TheAdventure]

You would probably act the same way you do in a dream. Just accepting everything without any sort of rationalization or real awareness of what is going on. Thus resulting in what spockman said- killing yourself by accident

[StonedApe]

It would probably be like when your on LSD, you'd see normal things and interpret them in strange ways.

[Crux]

I actually have some friends that have this problem. They are called creationists. oh snap.

[Philosopher8659]

You are using the current limited sense of the term Logic. Some time ago, some ancient Greeks formulated the correct notion of logic--based on a two-element metaphysics. It did not survive in history nor was developed, but the works of Plato is based on it, Aristotle wrote quite a bit on it, but he was not good at it. The Elements of Euclid was based on it. There are two primitive branches of logic, one for each of the two elements. It covers all data manipulation--every craft as a matter of fact.

[Crux]

I don't know enough about brain physiology but I imagine if it were shut off you could still cope via memories and other instinctual parts of the brain. Like you can't explain why you shouldn't touch the hot stove you just know you shouldn't. Maybe? Here's a somewhat related article that I found interesting. Woman who was a left brainer got a tumor and became a right brainer. Brain tumor opens her mind to art

[StonedApe]

What are the 2 elements? I don';t think that when the "logic centers shut down" we actually completely lose our logical facilites, we just use them in very strange ways.

[feross]

You are using the current limited sense of the term Logic. Some time ago, some ancient Greeks formulated the correct notion of logic--based on a two-element metaphysics. It did not survive in history nor was developed, but the works of Plato is based on it, Aristotle wrote quite a bit on it, but he was not good at it. The Elements of Euclid was based on it. There are two primitive branches of logic, one for each of the two elements. It covers all data manipulation--every craft as a matter of fact. more! i wanna hear what exactly logic was to them

[Philosopher8659]

The ideas are posted on the Internet archive, I give the link. Suffice it to say, if certain early Greeks were understood, man's understanding would be radically different. Since I am a single parent, working full time for GM--under a great deal of social duress, I don't have the time to devote to it that I would want, nor are my circumstances good enough to keep me focussed on the work. Currently I am doing a video-book of the elements, adding stuff to show how to convert directly into algebraic notation. As Plato said, in order to understand the logic, one needs to be firmly grounded int the exact sciences--but over 2500 years, so much fantasy has crept into them. The biological foundation is actually clear and simple, I note enough in the work I posted for a good leg up.

[Rawracookie]

What are the 2 elements? I don';t think that when the "logic centers shut down" we actually completely lose our logical facilites, we just use them in very strange ways. I think you would be going off of instinctual logic rather than learned logic.

[spareohs]

Maybe you'd just start assuming that there are relationships between things which wouldn't seem related to the ordinary person. People might think you have schizophrenia. "He just died." "How do you know?" "Because she just opened that window." Stuff like that.

[Philosopher8659]

I think you would be going off of instinctual logic rather than learned logic. I think you believe that a thing is different from itself. i.e. quite incapable of rational thought. A part of a thing is not the thing of which it is a part.

[lucidlistener]

Lately I have been pondering the subject of logic. I've been attacking it different ways and comming up with conclusions. This is mainly happened from trying to dream, and trying some psychedelics. I just have one question i'm pretty sure no one can answer. Since the logic center in your brain "shuts down" when you sleep, you dream crazy things. Now, what if you were awake, and you can somehow shut down your logic center. What would be the result of this? well you're saying we don't use logic in our dreams, this is wrong however. when dreaming we do logical things the same way we would in waking life. for example we often use doors in dreams, when realistically we could just walk through them. this is "faulty logic", but it's still logical - especially if we aren't aware that we are dreaming. to answer your "impossible question"- i believe we would act similar to a retard. i say this because without logic we would experience everything as incomprehensible.

[Shoshoni]

I once had an experience that I went into a dream state when I was fully conscious and aware of my environment. It happened twice in a week. I was not taking any drugs or medications. I can not say that my logic went away, but I am curious how it is possible to go into a dream while still very much awake. Has anyone else experienced this?