The chicken or the egg? Real life stimuli while sleeping (pain, noises)

[fogelbise]

There must be some research out there but I also wanted to know through the poll and any comments what individual experiences are out there and what the general consensus may be on DV. Some posts I have read throughout the forum seem to indicate that when people have something happen in a dream like being stabbed and wake up feeling the pain that their brain kicked in and created the pain to some degree in real life after they woke up. An experience I had years ago made me think the opposite: That I had a real life pain and the dream created the backstory. Perhaps both can be true..? I have another example to explain why I think our mind may create a backstory...or could this already be common knowledge? Please at least vote (I set it to be anonymous) but please chime in with comments as well!

[fogelbise]

145 views and only 2 votes? In case anyone is shy, the poll is *anonymous*. My other personal example was from a number of years ago so I don't remember the exact details but I woke up the next morning and found out that there was a loud bang that actually happened when I was sleeping and I thought it was a very interesting that the dream I had also had a loud bang in it but the timing was perfect..kind of like in your dream you're watching a ticking time bomb it's going down from 2 minutes all the way down to 1 minute and the explosion in the dream seems to have occurred at the same time as the actual bang. Instead of thinking that my dream was predicting the sound my thought was that my dreaming mind created the back story to explain the sound it heard while sleeping. Any thoughts?

[GrannyPigms]

I personally had a dream a long long time ago. In it, I was scared to death of a chicken, so I played dead. The chicken came over and started pecking me. I willed myself to wake up, and I did. The place where the chicken had been pecking me hurt when I woke up. Maybe something hurt me while I was dreaming? I dunno maybe a spider bit me. Anyways, I can back this up with a little bit of science behind the brain! "...but pain, pain is in the mind." - Mal, from the movie Inception. This is true, pain signals are created by the mind, it is our body telling us "Hey, stop that, you could hurt yourself!". So if you are hurt in a dream, your brain is telling you that your hurting yourself. Dreams, are basically our subconscious's trash that's left over, so while your sleeping, that trash becomes dreams. So technically your thoughts (your pain) could be carried over to real life because its still in your subconscious. I think I explain that a little messily, so here's a sum-it-up. Pain is in the mind. Dreams are in the mind. If you have pain in a dream, then it could carry over to your mind if you wake up. This can go the other way around as well. Sweet dreams.

[Sageous]

Now it's three votes! I pretty firmly believe that, aside from maybe cramps from not shifting your sleep position during particularly long dreams, or perhaps a moment of lingering hypnagogic phantom pain for a few seconds after a particularly painful dream (I remember getting shot by a good friend once and my chest hurt for a full minute after waking -- though my heart hurt longer, good friend an all) dreams do not create pain that lingers into waking life. Dreams are all about perception of imaginary events, and real pain is all about direct transmittal of actual physiological events; the two do not mix well. Yes, you can imagine pain just fine during a dream (more in a sec), but you can't take it with you. On the other hand, real-world pain (among other stimuli, like sounds or the need to pee) can certainly invade a dream, and your dreaming mind might tend to create schemata -- your "back story" to account for the pain you're feeling. I like to think that this is a twist on a genetic holdover from way back: Our tree-faring ancestors might have found real value in some warning when they were falling off a branch or being stalked by a leopard or fire ants during their nap. In those days such stimulus would likely have just triggered the reticular system and woke us up, but now, in the given safety of our beds and the advanced states of our consciousnesses, our modern brains might be wired to wait until dawn to apprise us of pain, with our dreaming minds in the meantime offering a subtle representation of the pain, just in case we feel a need to deal with it. There are exceptions to this, of course, like that need to pee, very loud noises, ominous scents (like smoke), and, of course, bright light: though all these things might manage to remain in our dreams, they have a tendency to wake us up, just like we were falling out of a tree. I'll bet there is a lot of research on this, probably dating back to the 60's and 70's, when physiologists still had an interest in this sort of thing. Where is Zoth when you need him? Interesting poll, fogelbise; it would have been nice to get more responses, and maybe some posts from folks who believe, or better yet are sure, that their dreams produce-life pain.

[Sageous]

... Anyways, I can back this up with a little bit of science behind the brain! "...but pain, pain is in the mind." - Mal, from the movie Inception. This is true, pain signals are created by the mind, it is our body telling us "Hey, stop that, you could hurt yourself!". So if you are hurt in a dream, your brain is telling you that your hurting yourself. Dreams, are basically our subconscious's trash that's left over, so while your sleeping, that trash becomes dreams. So technically your thoughts (your pain) could be carried over to real life because its still in your subconscious. I think I explain that a little messily, so here's a sum-it-up. Pain is in the mind. Dreams are in the mind. If you have pain in a dream, then it could carry over to your mind if you wake up. This can go the other way around as well. Though it sounds pretty cool in a movie like Inception (where the writers got pretty much nothing right about dreaming, BTW), pain is not in the mind. Pain is very much a physiological event, and is very much driven by our physical nervous system and primitive sections of our brain (though not always). We don't imagine pain in real life, we feel it. Yes a very disciplined mind can diminish the sensation of pain, but that is something else. Yes, phantom pains do exist in waking life, but even those are physiological in nature (or represent a psychological problem), so something else as well. Also, pain is an event experienced by the most mindless of creatures, creatures with no mind to speak of, and certainly no human-level imagination. So, if I may rudely edit your summary (sorry, I couldn't resist!): Pain is real. Dreams are not real. If you have pain in a dream, it will be unreal, and will not carry over into your physical body if you wake up. Inception is just a movie.

[KingYoshi]

I'm sure there are some disorders/illnesses out there that can cause your mind to recreate the sensation of "real" pain. As in, hallucinating pain. It is not coming from your dreams though. I can create the sensations of pain in a lucid dream and I have done this many times, but once you wake up, your in the real world now. The connection to the world you created this pain sensation has been broken. If there is a lingering pain, you had that during sleep and your mind created the back story. I can breath fire in my dreams, but that illusion isn't carrying over into waking life. Its along the same line of thinking as the pain.

[GrannyPigms]

Y'all have convinced me, good job, but I just have to defend myself on one thing. I wasn't taking this knowledge only from Inception, that would be dumb. I know it is just a movie. I had just conveniently watched it a couple days ago and remembered that little quote there. Anyways, I guess I was wrong. (I was waiting to use that animation thingy)

[OneofMany]

I'm sure there are some disorders/illnesses out there that can cause your mind to recreate the sensation of "real" pain. PSTD-type dream flashbacks can do that, although it'll be more like a "phantom" pain, and fades soon after waking up.

[LukeSid]

I dreamt that I tried to tackle a man who had "sharp razor-type" things. He slashed me with them and I felt that pain you get with razor-type implements and I can recall that now. (although, the pain wasn't quite as stingingly intense as I would have expected it to be) However, it never continued after I awoke.

[Scionox]

I think both can be possible, sometimes hypnopompic hallucination after waking up can last quite a while from my experiences, more than a few seconds, so i don"t see why sensation of pain can't be created similar way. At the same time sometimes it's possible to feel sensations from waking body in dream, thus pain, but also, sensations that one thinks can be from waking body in dream can also be created by dream, i have experienced that(not with pain in particular though).