LD by WILD without previous sleep and what to do while SP

**LiLeila** · 03-02-2016 02:16 PM

Sorry if this is hackneyed thread but this forum is much too big for one little me and I can't find the answers to my questions (only similar things).

1. Is it possible to have an LD without previous sleep by WILD if you can reach SP? Is it matter of time/person?
2. What if you don't have visual sensations* during SP, even when you're waking up in the middle of the night with it? Is thinking of "what to do in dream" then have any sense?
*3. I had some random dreamlets (images and voices) in my head so should I try to subordinate them to myself? Or try to imagine that I'm doing something lucid in them? Are they going to cooperate anyhow?
4. How "entering" to the dreamworld look like for you? Is there any visible skip? Are there many ways to do that (by varied sensations)?
5. Does it make sense to lay with SP if nothing really changing? I mean, for longer time (+1-1,5h).

I forgot probably about something anyway. Thanks for your time!

**dolphin** · 03-02-2016 03:43 PM

1. It's possible but not recommended. You'll save yourself a lot of trouble by getting some sleep beforehand.
2.Using your intention, you can try making your bed or body move, or try looking through your closed eyelids. You could also try imagining a dream scene to see if it forms.
3.No. Wait patiently until the dream becomes full. If you try doing stuff in a weak dream, you risk waking yourself up.
4.The dream forms in front of my closed eyelids, fading out from the center. Less commonly my bed or body moves, transporting me to a dream scene.
5.No. Remember, your goal is to consciously enter a dream. SP has nothing to do with that.

**LiLeila** · 03-02-2016 04:16 PM

Thanks, dolphin. So I'm just trying to make my life harder ;p

However if 1 is possible, is it require more time and waiting for REM cycle? Or maybe it's a way through OBE?

About your 2nd answer: I have sometimes that feeling that I'm looking through my closed eyelids but then I'm immediately going to check that physically and then I'm confused because I don't know if my eyes were open in RL or not. I know it's a mistake but it's an impulse usually. Any tips for that? Or just practise?

Hmm. So first of all, I need patience and stop being pushy.

And sorry for wrong forum, it should be in General Lucid Discussion of course. My bad.

**dolphin** · 03-03-2016 02:52 AM

Yes, it requires more time to wait for REM. If you do everything right as far as falling asleep consciously you have to wait around and hour and a half for your first taste of REM. Not only that, but if you fall asleep consciously like you're supposed to, you have to stay conscious through Stage 3 nREM which requires a great deal of awareness. If you don't fall asleep consciously, you can easily stay awake for 3-5 hours before you end up losing consciousness.

Don't be afraid to do a reality check if you think you might be dreaming. If you don't want to move, you can still try to use only your intention to move your body or you're bed.

There's a time and place to be pushy. If you look at the back of your eyelids and in the blackness only see some little numbers, letters, or lines, you can really focus on them in order to make them vivid. Eventually the figures become so vivid, a dream sort of bursts in front of your closed eyelids.

The same idea goes for the dreamlets. Interacting with them isn't favorable but focus is. Focus on the dreamlets until they become dreams.

I speak from my experience here. I hope it helps!

**LiLeila** · 03-03-2016 12:31 PM

Oh well, then it's indeed waste of time! I'll probably give up this idea.

I have a stupid problem that I can't decide what RC do if I can't move (maybe I should try to float, or maybe roll, or spin?), same in LDs - "What should I do? What should I do? There are so much stuff!". I must work on it（￣へ￣）

I was a little pushy yesterday but before sleep I managed to be calm and I had LD (not by WILD)! Last time was similar. So there is something in that. In blackness I see only some light somethimes faintly. Rarely it's some image for a sec. Moving shadows maybe. I don't know how to explain it but I "see images and hear sounds in my head", short fragments which immediately vanish. They're all random and even when I focus on them nothing really changing. But maybe it'll in some time. I'll try to experiment with that more.

Thanks again for an answer!

**Gyalogos** · 03-04-2016 05:21 PM

I recomend WILD without previous sleep on weekends. Peoples become frustrated with the sleeping time. In the meditation after a time you have no idea of how long you are meditating. Than you think, you will not sleep enough, and your next day work or school will be messed up. This "early" WILD works with perfect mental and physical relaxation. The other thing: I made my last two WILD-s without previous sleep. Both of them where short. I have the strong feeling that I can go easy in a DEILD chaining, but I beginn to worry about my bad dream memory. I must always choose: DEILD or wake up and write down the experience. Mostly I wake up, and I was never risking more then 2 parts of LD-ing (1 DEILD). My transitions are mostly "hard", and I always have this steps: meditation (sometimes HI on the end) - transition - vivid LD. I don't know whre is the NREM and DELTA?