Thread: Recurring themes while dreaming.

Just to start things off, here’s a quote from C.G. Jung’s “The Red Book”, p. 236:

“Dream symbols are the essential message carriers from the instinctive to the rational parts of the human mind, and their interpretation enriches the poverty of consciousness so that it learns to understand again the forgotten language of the instincts”

This implies that the ego is a “rational” part of the psyche while the instincts are the “non-rational” aspect, so the latter often speaks from the ego’s point of view in a kind of gibberish as opposed to using logical words and sentences etc.

Extending this idea, another core concept of the Jungian approach is that there are two “centres” of the psyche.

For example, the ego views itself as THE centre of the psyche when in fact, it’s only a generally weak viewer of various physical and psychic input that it doesn’t create or control.

One term used for the actual centre of the psyche is the “Self” which is probably a mind/body centre.

In any case, it’s useful to view it as the creator of dreams instead of the ego.

The aim is to somehow have the ego remain psychically balanced and inclusive of all the many varied aspects of his or her extended personality so that each innate part can reach consciousness as well as can be expected over time.

This can be viewed as the equivalent of the automatic balancing mechanism which maintains physical processes in an overall healthy state.

Just as we can’t conceive of an ego being able to consciously control the myriad of physical balancing processes going on in the body, so too it’s not logical to think that the ego is the “controller” of the psyche and what it presents.

Jung viewed his approach to psychology as both art and science.

He was scientifically trained as a doctor of medicine and later used such analytical and comparative tools as philology in order to reach some very reliable conclusions.

For example, although C. G. Jung is rarely credited for this change, the medieval practice of alchemy is no longer viewed, as it once was, as a kind of precursor to chemistry.

Instead, it’s accepted that the alchemist’s “gold” and “magic elixir” etc. symbolized the development of the personality which had reached its conclusion in a state of wholeness and completeness.

Jung’s early work also involved the creation of what is essentially to-day’s “lie detector test” although again, you’ll generally never hear Jung’s name in connection with this scientific device.

What Jung didn’t accept was the reductionist views of 19th century scientific materialism.

As he wrote, “Science comes to a stop at the frontiers of logic but nature does not” (CW 16 par. 524).

His rejected “mystical” ideas about “archetypes” and various other powerful concepts have in fact been independently confirmed by researchers in scientific fields such as biology etc., and these scientists had probably barely heard of Jung and his ideas. This is, of course, unlike scientists who actively set out to demonstrate the truth of Einstein’s ideas. If fact, Jung had many conversations with Einstein involving, for instance, discussions about quantum theory which can be seen to inform Jung’s writings.

But you’re correct in saying that Jung’s Analytical Psychology can’t be viewed as being, for example, an “experimental science”.

It’s best defined as being a branch of “hermeneutics” which is the art of interpretation in the service of meaning.

If you’re interested, you can check out Wikipedia’s article on 19th century scientific materialism, but a much better description of it can be found in “Alchemy and Psychotherapy: Post-Jungian Perspectives”, edited by Dale Mathers.

Freud was actually very unscientific in his “research” which is very reliably described and documented in
“The Freud Files: An Inquiry into the History of Psychoanalysis” by Mikkel Borch-Jacobsen and Sonu Shamdasani.

Regarding symbolism in dreams, Freud created a very narrow and limited array of “symbols” which, even in the 1920’s, spawned the term “monotony of interpretation” regarding his method of looking at dreams.

Jung of course was Freud’s protégé for a number of years but he came to realize that Freud’s approach was very constricting and not open to expansion via essentially the “scientific method” of testing theories through “experiment”.

For example, Jung’s very extensive researches into world symbolism (not “dream” symbolism) greatly expanded how dreams could be understood much more accurately.

This is actually a logical and rational way of approaching the problem when one realizes and accepts that the source of mythologies, folktales, art, sculpture, carvings, poetry, music and so on is the same source as that for dreams, namely, the psyche.

So very valuable parallels can be seen between certain stories etc. and dreams, helping to clarify the meaning of the latter.

Also, as Jung wrote in “Man and His Symbols”:

“… a symbol always stands for something more than its obvious and immediate meaning. Symbols, moreover, are natural and spontaneous products. No genius has ever sat down with a pen or brush in his hand and said: ‘Now I am going to invent a symbol.’ No one can take a more or less rational thought, reached as a logical conclusion or by deliberate intent, and then give it ‘symbolic’ form. No matter what fantastic trappings one may put upon an idea of this kind, it will still remain a sign, linked to the conscious thought behind it, not a symbol that hints at something not yet known. In dreams, symbols occur spontaneously, for dreams happen and are not invented…”

So the spiders, snakes, scorpions and octopi etc. in your dreams are hinting at “something not yet known”, that is, something that you’re unaware of at this time.

Also, they’re in the “lower orders” of nature, not meaning “inferior” but more like “intrinsic”, “basic” and “foundational”.

The fact that the images are recurring ones points to the idea that something important has to be understood because the inner equilibrium could be “out of balance” in some way.

And, just like an ignored physical symptom can eventually result in more severe problems developing, so too could any such inner “symptom” unfortunately become worse.

If for example we take the image of a biting snake, this suggests the ideas of danger and aggression.

On analogy, it’s possible that the dreamer could be the target of a kind of non-human aggressive impulse about which he or she needs to be more aware.

So any bite from an animal in a dream should be taken seriously, just as one has to be careful about being “attacked” by an aggressive outer animal.

As to the reason why an inner instinct, as it were, would want to “bite” a dreamer, an example would be the conscious state of affairs where the ego was not really being aware enough of many “aggressive” reactions to some kind of unpleasant incidents or situations etc.

That is, anger, bitterness or resentment etc. etc. could potentially be blocked out of awareness and this would result in the development of a “conflict” inside the person because of this blockage (e.g. there appears to be a “conflict” in existence between you and the various animals in the dream).

Generally speaking, the expression of anger etc. is “natural” in any group. Observing our cousins the chimpanzees in their natural habitat shows that one has to express one’s feelings partly in order to maintain a certain reasonable status.

So being an innate instinctive response, blocking it is something like not peeing on a physical level.

This might sound strange, but the medical term for peeing is the “expression of urine” and this links it up via analogy to the free and open “expression” of feelings which shouldn’t be “held back”, just like not peeing can lead to serious medical problems. This particular symbolic meaning appears in dreams about dirty and backed-up toilets etc.

In your dreams, the animals bite you, generally because they’re apparently being frustrated and not allowed to act in their natural way, maybe through assertively expressing anger or dislike in various situations.

Unfortunately, a “bite” could eventually consist in a practical way, for example, in feeling anxious or depressed etc. for no obvious reason. Or any one of a number of unpleasant physical symptoms could appear such as persistent headaches or stomach upsets etc. etc.

If this general approach appears to fit your own circumstances to some degree, one way to help avoid this possibility would be to take a more assertive stance regarding any negative situations which occur where you don’t usually adequately express your feelings about them.

Of course, any talk of depression nowadays is linked only to “brain” and “chemical” functioning, as opposed to “mind” and “heart” functioning. This is in effect “19th century scientific materialism” being more alive to-day than ever.

In reality, while some persons do have identifiable brain disturbances which can cause depression and erratic behavior etc., most mild to moderate depressions are caused by “life’s difficulties” and in fact, these low level depressions do not respond to drug therapy as much as to sensitive “talk” therapy.

I once saw a discussion among four or five psychiatrists whose practices involved treating depression.

One of them presented the research regarding the inefficacy and even the dangers of drug therapy with persons having low to moderate depressions. All of the others strongly disagreed with this finding.

The moderator gradually drew out of the fact that those disagreeing had in fact suffered from MAJOR depression and were still on medication.

This for me clearly showed that “personal” and “non-scientific” issues were clouding their judgement.

Simply put, ANY person who presented themselves complaining of even a low level depression would be put on drug therapy regardless of the demonstrated facts the drugs used could make things worse or at least have no effect.

Anyway, you’re still right in thinking that psychology can often be helpful in broadening our understanding of ourselves but I personally don’t feel that Freud’s approach is in the end very useful.

Instead, here are a few quotes from professional Jungian analysts regarding dreams which you might find of interest since you recognize the value of some of Jung’s ideas:

“Since dream images make no sense in ordinary terms, people dismiss them as ‘weird’ or meaningless, but actually, dreams are completely coherent. If we take the time to learn their language, we discover that every dream is a masterpiece of symbolic communication…

We may compare a dream to a screen on which the unconscious projects its inner drama. We see there the various inner personalities that make up much of our total character, the dynamics among the forces that make up the unconscious…They take the form of images, and the interplay of the dream images gives us an exact representation of those inner dynamics that go on inside us.”

Robert Johnson, “Inner Work”.


“Dreams are a major thoroughfare to the unconscious psyche which…is vastly larger than consciousness. If we don’t pay attention to them, we limit our knowledge of the psyche to the relatively small segment that is conscious.

Do all dreams have meaning? We cannot prove that they do, but many people spontaneously record or tell their dreams; to them it seems self-evident that dreams have meaning. Moreover, psychotherapists and other workers with dreams have found meaning in nearly all of those studied. Failure to find a dream’s meaning is probably the dreamer’s failure, not the dream’s.”

Mary Ann Mattoon, “Jung and the Human Psyche: An Understandable Introduction”


“What excited me most when I first began to listen to my dreams was this sense that I was in touch with a great mystery. Something powerful seemed to be at work in my dreams, something that seemed to possess a wisdom and purpose beyond my conscious mind.

To be sure…special expertise is necessary for in-depth analysis of dreams, and, in cases of emotional or mental disturbance, the guidance of a trained analyst is required. But most normal people, who are able to cope realistically with everyday life, can gain fresh insight into themselves through a laymen’s approach to dream interpretations.”

George R. Slater Ph.D., “Bringing Dreams to Life”


“In interpreting dreams, it is important never to feel that the dream has been exhausted. At best one can find a useful, current meaning to the dream, but even this may be modified in the light of subsequent dreams, for dream interpretation involves a continuing dialogue between the ego and the unconscious…

In the Jungian view, dreams are continually functioning to compensate and complement (a milder form of compensation) the ego’s waking view of reality.”

James A. Hall M.D., “Jungian Dream Interpretation”

“Why should we look at dreams at all? ... Dreams help reveal to ourselves the hidden parts of our personalities of which we are usually unaware. This revelation – for that is how is usually feels – has in turn, a profound effect on our characters, so much so that it could almost be said that we know only half the truth about ourselves, and our dreams help us to meet the other half.”

Donald Broadribb, “The Dream Story”


Anyway without knowing anything much about you, my way of looking at your dreams above might not have fit your personal circumstances very well, but I hope these other ideas can be helpful or informative in some way.

Please feel free to ask any questions or to make any comments about the various thoughts that were outlined in response to your questions.