Thread: Dreams a place to be dirty or to have self restraint?

This is turning out to be akin to the video game debate. Do violent video games make people more violence prone? I don't think so, but obviously a lot of people do . . .

not to get into a full fledged nasty debate or anything but... that means that youre saying that the amount of video games and television and cursing and violence and bloodsheed that kids are experiencing nowadays is NOT a preview of what our world will be like in the future?

oh i think that television and video games do contribute.. think of it this way, the GI Joe made every young boy want to enter the military in like the 40s and 50s or whatever... the "GI Joes" today in video games dont do the same thing?


same thing with your conscious and subconscious... whether or not you know it, your subconscious feeds into your conscious mind!!

Originally Posted by quattykitty

that kids are experiencing nowadays

That's my generation you're talking about. All my friends play Grand Theft Auto, etc. and they're perfectly good people. Conservatives are always saying that violent TV and video games are corrupting us, but I just don't see any evidence that mentally stable people will be affected in any way.

no its my generation too.. im only 18 and honestly i see such a big difference frmo teens/yinug adults who are 3 years older than me and those who are 3 years yonuger.... i dont know i think its affecting peoplee but whatever...

and im not ultra conservative either.... as i said tho i dont wanna turn it into a debate so lets stop here XD

Originally Posted by theyearthreethousand

I am surprised it took 16 replies for somebody to say this. It is none of my business what people do in their dreamworld, but it must concern you that you want to violently force another women to have sex with you in your dreams, when ultimately you have the choice to take the more peaceful and moral route to achieving the pleasure you desire? maybe it is down to some confidence issues? I do not understand why people would walk the path of the dark side in this scenario. I do not rape or murder people in my dreams, because I am stable and have no urge to do it in waking life. I tend to agree with these laws in our society, therefore, I have no hunger to break them when I am dreaming. however, this does not make me less free then any body else.

Well what if one doesn't have very good dream control or long lucid dreams, then that person would just try to make the most of the limited time by just forcing himself directly

If you're the kind of person that gets off on having rape fantasies played out in your dreams, then that doesn't really speak well of your character as a human being.

Three years ago, I had a non-lucid dream in which I was at a party, chatting up a girl. I then drugged her drink, dragged her into the swamp behind the house, raped her unconscious body, then smothered her to death in the mud before burying her and returning to the party.

When I woke up, I was horrified with myself and wanted to throw up. I didn't go back to sleep the following night either. I started analysing and over-analysing it, wondering if that kind of evil exists inside of me. After talking to a friend about it, I realised that my very feelings of disgust over the dream proved I was an inherently good (and normal) person who just had a totally fucked up dream that was completely out of character. So what's there to worry about? Nothing.

Rape fantasies between couples is entirely different - you are both consenting, willing participants and know it's pretend. If someone actively seeks to have rape-filled lucid dreams with a "real" screaming, unwilling and bleeding victim, I would suggest seeing a sex therapist about it. That's really NOT healthy.

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

If you're a "normal" person and you happen to rape someone in a dream, I hardly think that that will affect your psyche in any way. I think it's the other way around: the psyche that we already possess is what affects our dreams.

Indeed, I think you'd have to be pretty sick to even want to dream about raping someone... unless you're playing some sort of sex game

I recently had a dream that I killed my ex's current girlfriend.. I drown her under the running shower. (I utterly despise the woman)
My ex was standing in the doorway, watching, and didn't do a thing.
I woke up disturbed that I had the dream. Not so much what it was about, but that I had it, because it felt very real (not lucid, but very real) and it scared me that I was acting out that way, even in a dream.

A few months ago, I had a very very real dream that my ex shot me, and the bullet went through my throat from right to left, basically just tearing open my windpipe on the front, and it was crazy real feeling. I woke up grasping my throat and crying. I avoided her for the first few hours of the day, I was scared of her, all because of a dream.

Originally Posted by kalii2

I recently had a dream that I killed my ex's current girlfriend.. I drown her under the running shower. (I utterly despise the woman)
My ex was standing in the doorway, watching, and didn't do a thing.
I woke up disturbed that I had the dream. Not so much what it was about, but that I had it, because it felt very real (not lucid, but very real) and it scared me that I was acting out that way, even in a dream.

A few months ago, I had a very very real dream that my ex shot me, and the bullet went through my throat from right to left, basically just tearing open my windpipe on the front, and it was crazy real feeling. I woke up grasping my throat and crying. I avoided her for the first few hours of the day, I was scared of her, all because of a dream.

I find it almost fascinating how much people let their dreams control them. Avoiding someone because of a dream, feeling bad, feeling remorse for how you acted.

It is simply a dream, a falsified reality within your mind, separate from waking life and therefore should bear no weight on how you feel.

I have only had one short lucid dream lately but i would not ever rape someone in my dream because if you think about it dreams are what you want and been lucid means you control it and if you rape in a lucid dream it must turn you on in real life and rapeists should have there selfs raped and then beaten to death slowly and painfully as possible but if you thought about raping someone in real life and doing it in ur dreams would stop you i say go ahead. But i must admit in my next lucid im planning of killing 1000 and trieing to create as much power as possible and try raise hell but thats not a fantasy and not sexual and mabie i would kill alot of people in real life but in real life i wont be able to fly while shooting fire and molton out of my hands. So i wouldnt lol

Originally Posted by M0rp8ix

I find it almost fascinating how much people let their dreams control them. Avoiding someone because of a dream, feeling bad, feeling remorse for how you acted.

It is simply a dream, a falsified reality within your mind, separate from waking life and therefore should bear no weight on how you feel.

I didn't consciously decide to be afraid of her. I woke up full of fear and dread, and it carried on into my day. Apparently that makes me worthy of ridicule, a weak person.
I also have emotional disregulation (aka borderline personality) disorder, care to chide me for that as well?
Thanks.
Ya'll have fun now.

Originally Posted by kalii2

I didn't consciously decide to be afraid of her. I woke up full of fear and dread, and it carried on into my day. Apparently that makes me worthy of ridicule, a weak person.
I also have emotional disregulation (aka borderline personality) disorder, care to chide me for that as well?
Thanks.
Ya'll have fun now.

Think your over reacting tell zerkzeaz he will find free men here not slaves.

Guys, this is getting SICK.

Put it this way. If you were offered the chance to become a (proper, mentally ill) psychopath, with no capacity for emotion or introspection or uderstanding consequences, and therefore the ability to embody your darkest dreams without guilt or shame, would you accept? Would you?

Different as the situations may seem, more depth will appear the deeper you think about it. Both situations have at least one vital characteristic in common - in each case, you become totally free to do what you wish.

Frankly, it sounds appealing.

But as appealing as it is, it is sick, twisted and unhealthy (I even believe LaBerge wrote something on how immorality in dreams has the same psychological effect as immorality in waking life, but as I can't find this work of his anymore, I haven't mentioned it). Our ability to control ourselves, to show restraint, is one of the things that makes us human. Actually, I would say it is the most important of our characteristics - it is what seperates us from being mindless, savage, impulsive psychpaths.

Please... is it too hard to be humane?

Originally Posted by The Fishy

Guys, this is getting SICK.

Put it this way. If you were offered the chance to become a (proper, mentally ill) psychopath, with no capacity for emotion or introspection or uderstanding consequences, and therefore the ability to embody your darkest dreams without guilt or shame, would you accept? Would you?

Different as the situations may seem, more depth will appear the deeper you think about it. Both situations have at least one vital characteristic in common - in each case, you become totally free to do what you wish.

Frankly, it sounds appealing.

But as appealing as it is, it is sick, twisted and unhealthy (I even believe LaBerge wrote something on how immorality in dreams has the same psychological effect as immorality in waking life, but as I can't find this work of his anymore, I haven't mentioned it). Our ability to control ourselves, to show restraint, is one of the things that makes us human. Actually, I would say it is the most important of our characteristics - it is what seperates us from being mindless, savage, impulsive psychpaths.

Please... is it too hard to be humane?

Id have to accept it would be rude not two.

Originally Posted by kalii2

I didn't consciously decide to be afraid of her. I woke up full of fear and dread, and it carried on into my day. Apparently that makes me worthy of ridicule, a weak person.
I also have emotional disregulation (aka borderline personality) disorder, care to chide me for that as well?
Thanks.
Ya'll have fun now.

I was not attacking you in any way kalii2 I was just saying how curious it is that so many people let their dreams influence their waking life. And I never ridiculed you or made fun of you so your over reaction alone speaks for your own weakness that you so openly claim. And congrats on the borderline personality, I could actually truly care less if you had a problem or not.

Originally Posted by The Fishy

Guys, this is getting SICK.

Put it this way. If you were offered the chance to become a (proper, mentally ill) psychopath, with no capacity for emotion or introspection or uderstanding consequences, and therefore the ability to embody your darkest dreams without guilt or shame, would you accept? Would you?

Different as the situations may seem, more depth will appear the deeper you think about it. Both situations have at least one vital characteristic in common - in each case, you become totally free to do what you wish.

Frankly, it sounds appealing.

But as appealing as it is, it is sick, twisted and unhealthy (I even believe LaBerge wrote something on how immorality in dreams has the same psychological effect as immorality in waking life, but as I can't find this work of his anymore, I haven't mentioned it). Our ability to control ourselves, to show restraint, is one of the things that makes us human. Actually, I would say it is the most important of our characteristics - it is what seperates us from being mindless, savage, impulsive psychpaths.

Please... is it too hard to be humane?

"Psychopathy is a psychological construct that describes chronic immoral and antisocial behavior"~wiki

A psychopath does not mean that you lack emotion or introspect, much less understanding consequences. I would reason a psychopath knows more about himself even than you know about yourself. Because the antisocial part of being one leads to self sociality, and understaning of self. Is a psychopath such a bad thing? Or is it that we are completely restrained by our morals, by our emotional ties and weights? Lucid dreaming and dreaming in general are nothing more than a tool used by us and our minds to escape reality.

I personally have very little emotion, and what emotion I do have only a minuscule few have ever seen. It isnt that I hide emotion, I used to when I was young and now it is just suppressed to the point that I don't even feel emotion, except from a few things. LD and dreaming to me is a free world and in that world I am God. So whatever rules I set forth, whatever norms or morals or standards I create are fine. The cares and weights of the day bear no weight in a dream and therefore a dream should bear no weight in reality, the two are separate in and of themselves.

And for some it is easier to be inhumane. The standard consumes our thought, and LD is a time of freedom, why waste effort on thought like "would I really do this?" "I feel bad" just LD and do whatever you want, and stop complaining when someone does something you consider inappropriate or wrong in their dreams then asks about it here, that just shows how much you are controlled by external factors.

Oh, I forgot to add this, the topic and fact that we are even discussing this is not sick or strange. It is leading some to a deeper understanding of themselves and of others. Personally I find this whole volley of ideas fascinating and enlightening.

I meant raping in a dream is sick.

Psychpaths have inhibited emotional affect (emotions), and will be impulsive, regarding even the most severe of disasters or consequences "minor setbacks", and will not realise any flaw in their psyche.

Sociopaths have inhibited empathy, and disregard social rules and normal but have normal emotions.

The two conditions are similar and may overlap but currently they differentiating line between them is being studied.

This is a great article to read about it: http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm

There will be links there to many pages that help differentiate between the two illnesses. They were grouped together as "dissocial disorders". The diagnoses of each is being re-examined.

This topic is a very important thought train, IMO. I am 60 now and have been going lucid and OB for the last 55 years or so (as long as I can remember). When I was young, I used to rape, pillage, steal and destroy when the urge took me with no regard to the DC's or dream scenes.

I don't do that anymore. I try to respect the energies that I encounter in the "dream" world as I try to respect them here. And it is not because of any moral judgment. I think that you can do whatever you like ... but there are consequences. At least there have been for me.

I am at times haunted by the memories of some of my past deeds. And in that time between worlds I am not always sure I didn't do those things here. It is a horrible feeling! The things that you do there and here are you (at least they are me). That never leaves. The atrocities you commit may be to yourself. It feels like that is so for me. That is why I started not doing those things anymore and now I just don't want to because it feels better this way. The only person I kill over there is myself and the only people I have sex with are willing and that is usually only when I am not lucid. I do the merge thing though whenever I get the chance. That is a street with many directions.

BlessU
Sam

Your responce is interesting, and your experience enlightening to the subject. I choose however to do as I please in my dreams still, I may have consequences later in life, havent had any yet and I have LD for years already, or I may not. It is a risk I am willing to take though.

Originally Posted by M0rp8ix

Your responce is interesting, and your experience enlightening to the subject. I choose however to do as I please in my dreams still, I may have consequences later in life, havent had any yet and I have LD for years already, or I may not. It is a risk I am willing to take though.

I am not sure that I would have been better off if I had not done "as I pleased". I am really not sure. I just know what I have to live with now. I think that is true of all life. I now reap what I have sown in my life. And I have a wonderful life now with great children and grand children. Maybe if I hadn't acted out so violently in my dream world I would have done so in this reality and my children and grand children would have paid the price. Or I could have worked it out without any of the violence. Don't really know.

BlessU