Thread: Dreams a place to be dirty or to have self restraint?

Everything we do has some consequence. If I wanted to know the answer to your question I would try to have 30 LDs where I behaved like an absolute pig, and then 30 more where I acted like a saint. Then I'd take a good, close look at how the 2 sets of dream affected me.

My general view is this: what you do in dreams is quite harmless. It gets tricky, however, if you go around doing very anti-social things (like rape, murder, etc) on a very regular basis in dreams. In that case, that might reflect a bad side of your personality which might manifest itself IRL if unchecked.

If you're a "normal" person and you happen to rape someone in a dream, I hardly think that that will affect your psyche in any way. I think it's the other way around: the psyche that we already possess is what affects our dreams.

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

My general view is this: what you do in dreams is quite harmless. It gets tricky, however, if you go around doing very anti-social things (like rape, murder, etc) on a very regular basis in dreams. In that case, that might reflect a bad side of your personality which might manifest itself IRL if unchecked.

If you're a "normal" person and you happen to rape someone in a dream, I hardly think that that will affect your psyche in any way. I think it's the other way around: the psyche that we already possess is what affects our dreams.

I have thought about the morality of dreams, and I tend to agree with you Mes, that what you do in dreams is generally harmless, and that your psyche affects your dreams more than your dreams affect your psyche.

I think that I would question why someone would want to do something repulsive in their dreams in the first place. I could completely understand something like having superpowers, and killing baddies. However, something like raping or murdering someone you know personally doesn't make any sense, in my opinion. Something like that just doesn't appeal to me. Perhaps someone could explain to me why anyone would want to do that.

Maybe just the wish for more power?

I think it does not only depend on how often you have those dreams, but also on how you view it afterwards. If I just dream of having murdered someone, write it in my dream journal and then forget about it, then I think there is no big deal. However, if I tend to think about it often, there is a chance it might show up again in another dream, which will make me think even more about it, etc.

In the end, our subconscious mind influences what we do, but what we do influences our subconscious in return.

Maybe it's also for the rush of doing something that you know is wrong but won't get punished for. Actually, I suppose that applies more to LDs rather than to regular dreams. Hmmm.... it's an interesting question.

I see no problems with doing what you want in dreams. Sometimes they make an interesting lab in which to experiment with how you feel doing things that are perceived as anti-social irl!

My personal experience with this subject is as follows:

When I first learned to have LD's, a number of them evoked some baser desires from my sub-consious. I was initially shocked at what was locked in my mind, but then found that LD was serving as an outlet for this dark side of my mind and such events became fewer and fewer. For me this has been as a very theraputic process.

I would think that if such "bad" dreams continue or increase in intensity, then outside help might be needed to resolve such issues.

Alot of interesting views there, from what I have seen there seems to be 2 sides to this question. Rubee in particular however most of you have opted for 'its ok', there are some good points to this for one the ventilation of these inner desires/wrongdoings probably does help in real life to balance you.

However what if these sort of possibilities carry on in your dreams as 'Mes Tarrant' mentioned if we are doing explicit anti social things such as murder and rape on a regular basis could this infact be a bad sign? For instance if you heard from a friends that they raped DC'a on a regula basis in a Lucid and they enjoyed it would you be shocked? I would agree with most of you and say as long as it does not have an affect on your real life but this means even thoughts or memories that come back to you when you see an attractive woman then I see no problem with it. Interesting responses keep them coming.

In my lucid dreams I am still myself, only with much more freedom. I have no desire at all to kill or harm DC's or be violent towards beings, in the dream world or in the real world. There are far too many other things I consider a lot of fun to make good use of a great dream; for me personally at least.

I think dreams should be to learn. Maybe you might regret raping Jessica Alba in a dream. There is a difference between a sexual predator and a perverted kid. I think "normal" people will feel regret. Our morals and feelings are the difference.

I think if I was to do something " morally wrong", I wouldn't feel happy with myself.

I think this is a complex issue. There are many kinds of dreams, many levels of lucidity, and many ways the mind may choose to represent the issues it is working on.

I believe that the mind plays out scenarios in dreams which often REPRESENT waking-life events and issues. In a normal dream in which you have no lucidity themes of violence and sexual depravity could be used by the subconscous for all kinds of reasons. However I only see a problem with such dreams if they are keep happening, if you find yourself fantasizing about acting them out IRL, or if they cause other waking-life problems. I know I'm not a psycho murderer, so I hold myself blameless for anything I do in a normal dream.

When it comes to lucid dreams, unless you are extrodinarliy lucid, and are able to completely leave or disregaurd the plot of the dream, I still think your subconscous is trying to deal with waking-life stuff. Just because you realize you are dreaming isn't going to stop this (in my oppinion). So a judgement on how culpable the dreamer is for any wrong behavior they do is still up for debate, in my mind.

An issue no one has raised, which I think could make this discussion more interesting, is wether or not DCs are "real" in some way and deserving of humane treatment. Certainly if one believes DCs are just constructs of our dreaming minds, then harming them would seem a lot less "wrong." However, if one believes DCs could be real in some way, even possibly, then harming them obviously becomes extreemly immoral.

As to my own behavior in lucid dreams, as long as I'm lucid enough to know what is right and wrong, I won't rape, kill, or otherwise harm innocent DCs. I'll have consensual sex with them. If I see a DC hurting another DC I will try to stop them. I do my best to do the right thing. I do this because I think knowingly doing what is wrong, even though I will get away with it, can still have repercussions in waking life. Plus I'm not completely convinced that there is no chance that DCs are nothing but my brain in off mode.

I read this the other day in a book and thought it was relevant to this thread.

The Energy of Life
When you formulate a thought, you instantly project it out into the universe. We think countless numbers of thoughts every day, but most of them arrive and disappear without creating much impact in our lives. If, however, a thought has a strong emotional charge, whether positive or negative, the energy of that thought can become a highly influential and creative force...

Your attitudes and beliefs are energies that you project into everything you create in your life and into those things that attract you. For example, when you project fear or doubt, you attract similar energy....

Because energy is intelligence, says Chopra, it is also mind...

Pay attention to what you are expecting, because your expectations are what you are attracting. Writer Shakti Gawian says, "We always attract into our lives whatever we think about the most, believe in most strongly, expect on the deepest levels, and/or imagine most vividly." You need to be very careful of the energy in the words you choose and the feelings and thoughts that you live with, because they attract more of the same.

Whenever I do something bad in a dream, lucid or not; I feel ashamed.
I guess that's a good thing.

I would never act immorally in a dream, as I am still myself.
When I am in a dream, lucid or not, that is reality.

This is probably mainly because I have very strong principles in waking life,
and I would never violate them in a dream.

Absolutely no person is able to have a good side without having a bad side of equal magnitude; and visa-versa.

By allowing us to do bad things in our dreams, we allow ourselves to be good when we are not dreaming. We overall better our individual as long as we realize that we would never do those things within our waking life.

It is in my opinion that dreams are that of the dreamer, who is allowed to do everything that they can if they wish. If we were not permitted, then in what other ways would our bad sides be released?

Of course, this is just my opinion and I think that it will differ for each individual.

Originally Posted by Verto

For instance in the 'Dream walker' thread someone mentioned about raping Jessica Alba now as long as this is in your dream. Your not causing any harm and who knows if it pleases you?

The thing is, if it's a lucid dream, you don't need to rape her. You can make her beg you to have sex if you want. Raping her just seems unneeded.

dreaming is a place where you can let yourself go free... however, as other people haave said, dont let it 'take over you' or anytihng like that. i personally prefer good dreams or dreams with a message in them to dreams where i am pleasured or satisfied... but thats just me... as weve said, experiment!

I will try to offer some insight into this topic. To start off with, I have almost no dreams where I do not realzie I am dreaming and control my actions. I consider those types of dreams to be a low level of lucidity, but I do not consider them LD since I have had true LD experiences using WILD and DILD and those dreams had a different "feel" to them.

I kill in dreams without cause or reason mainly. Almost all of my regular dreams involve some sort of warfare and at least one DC a night dies by some strange method and primarily by my hand. Even when I have short dreams there is at least one DC that I either end up killing b/c of the plot or end up killing b/c I felt like it. IRL I am not a very violent person, I dont kill or get into fights all the time. I have however had many of my friends die all through my life from strange causes, one blew her brains out, and other died of a rare cancer, and the list goes on. I have actually even watched an old lady die in the ER I volunteer at. I felt nothing after she died, no sinking feeling, no strange coldness, I just watched as the doctors tried to save her but couldn't. So, I dont know if any of that plays a role in killing in my dreams but it might.

In my LD I have the same principles really. Except one main difference in an LD from a regular dream is I have more control over exactly who I kill adn where. I have murdered people I hate, I have beaten down people I don't like, all sorts of things I have done to DC and not once have I felt guilty or ashamed or bad about any of it. Most of the time it is almost fun or a game, like killing in a videogame is entertaining. This is just as real as it gets without doing it. And it offers a thrill, there is something known as bloodlust which is more of a primal urge than anything that this satisfies.

I use this more as a release than anything. It allows me to feed my dark side when it doesnt matter what I do, and to use my good side during the day. It balances me out by giving me an emotional release I can't get IRL.

There is however one thing that I have refused to do anymore in my LD. In my dreams where I cant totally control what happens it doesnt bother me as much as it does in an LD though. And that is having sex. I am currently in a relationship with the most amazing girl and we are waiting till we get married to have sex with eachother. We dated off and on for four years now, through highschool and into college. and I am going to most likely marry her next summer. But that being said I have had about 3 LD sex dreams and eachtime it was ana amazing feeling while it happened but I felt horrible afterwards because I was lucid and had control over it. So in my case there is only one thing I will not do in a dream and that is just personal preferance.

hope this helped, it is my opinion and experiences in what you were asking.

Originally Posted by luciddream

The thing is, if it's a lucid dream, you don't need to rape her. You can make her beg you to have sex if you want. Raping her just seems unneeded.

I am surprised it took 16 replies for somebody to say this. It is none of my business what people do in their dreamworld, but it must concern you that you want to violently force another women to have sex with you in your dreams, when ultimately you have the choice to take the more peaceful and moral route to achieving the pleasure you desire? maybe it is down to some confidence issues? I do not understand why people would walk the path of the dark side in this scenario. I do not rape or murder people in my dreams, because I am stable and have no urge to do it in waking life. I tend to agree with these laws in our society, therefore, I have no hunger to break them when I am dreaming. however, this does not make me less free then any body else.

Morality is a cultural construct. Different cultures have different standards of morality. Even the title of this thread indicales a cultural bias. What is "dirty" ?? To you it is one thing, to me another.

Dreams, lucid or not, are self-generated events with no pre-concieved boundries. Many (maybe even most) people dream of things that are far from the bounds of cultural norms. That does not make them "dirty", unless by that you mean "socially unacceptable".

I do not know how others react to such dreams, but for my part, my experiences with lucid dreaming can often be viewed as being theraputic. My sub-consious desires, that I would not for a minute countenance in my waking life, have been revealed to the light of reason, given release, dealt with, and freed me from their burden. Call it self-psychotherapy perhaps, but for me, it works.

I see no reason that anyone should feel guilt or remorse over such revelations, we all have suppressed feelings. It is perfectly normal to have them, and a problem only if they interfere with your consious life.

Originally Posted by luciddream

The thing is, if it's a lucid dream, you don't need to rape her. You can make her beg you to have sex if you want. Raping her just seems unneeded.

Justify your existence necessary...then you can judge what's unnecessary.

Some people are such tools.

Originally Posted by ClouD

Justify your existence necessary...then you can judge what's unnecessary.

Some people are such tools.

please, elaborate.

There are a surprising number of people who enjoy the scenario of rape as a fantasy without actually wanting to harm a real woman. And while I find this somewhat disturbing, I try not to judge. What people do in their own heads is their own business.

Oh, and I cheat on my boyfriend all the time in my dreams. Again, I don't see any problem with fantasies . . .

Originally Posted by theyearthreethousand

please, elaborate.

The reason why we get up each day, lies in our most broad outlook.

We live by that, so how can he use a similar narrow outlook before understanding his broader outlook.

It is almost hipocrisy.