One of the "Paradiso" guidelines gave me a shock..

[Orior]

• No masturbation. In recent studies, masturbation has been known to not only diminish one's dream recall, but also one's ability to gain consciousness while in a dream. If you cannot prevent yourself from stopping completely, then at least consider reducing the frequency. o.O Does this include all sexual activities? Lucid dreaming is great and all, but this? (I realize I might sound like a huge perv, but so be it)

[Fugue]

First of all, it definitely hasn't diminished my dream recall. I'm consistently remembering two or three dreams a night with little problem, as well as consistently masturbating along with other sexual activities. I'd be interested to see, like you said, if masturbation is somehow distinguished from regular sex, since anatomically speaking I don't think it has any differences. The only difference would be the source of the stimulation, so...that's weird. Not to mention I masturbated prior to my first lucid, so I don't know what the basis for this is.

[Samael]

I had the same thought when I read through the Paradiso guidelines. I don't buy it.

[Fugue]

What exactly are the Paradiso guidelines?

[Orior]

• No masturbation. In recent studies, masturbation has been known to not only diminish one's dream recall, but also one's ability to gain consciousness while in a dream. If you cannot prevent yourself from stopping completely, then at least consider reducing the frequency. • At least 6 - 8 hours of sleep. As you may or may not know, when we first go to sleep, we basically just enter a deep sleep for the first four or so hours, and do not enter much REM until after that period. This means that you usually will not dream until around 4 to 5 hours after first going to sleep. On top of that, the 90 minute REM periods, where you can have the most success in, do not begin until around 5 to 6 hours after first going to sleep; so, get more sleep! • Do not drink any fluids for one hour prior to sleeping. The last thing you want is to wake up from a success just because you had to use the restroom. • Keep a written dream journal. I've found it oddly enough that if you write down your dreams, as opposed to typing them, you will benefit much more in terms of dream recall and such. Besides, it's essential to be familiar with your dreams. And, before you think about saying that you don't have enough time, consider waking up 5 to 10 minutes earlier than you usually do so that you do have enough time. Pretty basic, really. Except for you-know-what

[Fugue]

Yeah. That's weird o__O

[Bowie]

Hmm, I can't find the quote, maybe I was mistaken. Anyway, I still have my doubts about this. I guess the best way to find out is to just try. How about we start up a little experiment. No masturbation for a week, and we'll see if we can bust this myth, or confirm it I'm willing to deprive myself of some bodily pleasure for the sake of science. Anyone else here willing to participate?

[Cosmix]

I guess the best way to find out is to just try. How about we start up a little experiment. No masturbation for a week, and we'll see if we can bust this myth, or confirm it I'm willing to deprive myself of some bodily pleasure for the sake of science. Anyone else here willing to participate? I'm down. Day 1 here I go

[XeL]

I'm down. Day 1 here I go You're wasting your time :3

[Cosmix]

You're wasting your time :3 haha yeah, maybe I'll just make it a personal challenge..for 40 days and nights and proving masturbation/sex doesn't effect LD will just be a bonus

[bored2tears]

I do not find it odd. It depends on the person. Before I even heard of this study, the nights/days I masturbated, I could not remember a single dream. I couldn't even remember a fragment. The days I did not masturbate, I remembered 3 dreams. I think it depends on the person. :/

[Bowie]

I don´t believe it. I believe I recall reading in Laberge's book that having sex/masturbating in the middle of the night actually helped reaching lucidity, because the mind is more awake. I'll try to find the quote and post it here.

[Orior]

I bet so many people's first thoughts are something like; Masturbation=No lucids? LIES!!

[Orior]

I guess the best way to find out is to just try. How about we start up a little experiment. While reading this part, I got some nasty thoughts.. But, ok. Why not, let's see what's to this thing :L

[Nighthog]

I would more rather think it's the state of mind you have. Are you full of mind, or docile after sex or such? Do you wake yourself up from the afterglow of drowsiness and such which usually entails after that stuff. Or do you keep yourself in that low empty softness. Basically are you alert or not? Sex and masturbation I have found makes your mind more soft and docile and not as active or alert as it can be. But you can always work to regain that alertness if you want though. Being alert at all times I have seen increases my recall and lucid time. Masturbation or other activities or just laziness of trying to be alert has resulted in less and worse recall.

[Fugue]

I would more rather think it's the state of mind you have. Are you full of mind, or docile after sex or such? Do you wake yourself up from the afterglow of drowsiness and such which usually entails after that stuff. Or do you keep yourself in that low empty softness. Basically are you alert or not? Sex and masturbation I have found makes your mind more soft and docile and not as active or alert as it can be. But you can always work to regain that alertness if you want though. Being alert at all times I have seen increases my recall and lucid time. Masturbation or other activities or just laziness of trying to be alert has resulted in less and worse recall. Actually, that's not entirely true. In males, post-orgasm brain awareness is actually increased, whereas in females the brain slows down. From what I understand, this is considered an evolutionary thing--males become alert after sex in order to protect the female that they just impregnated, and thus their offspring, from harm. So if that sort of awareness is what is considered to inhibit lucid dreaming, then it might be that women are at a disadvantage when it comes to masturbation.

[zhineTech]

"This means that you usually will not dream until around 4 to 5 hours after first going to sleep" - i call bs on this one. every lucid i have ever had has been within the first two hours of sleep, and i frequently recall dreams from this time. Actually, that's not entirely true. In males, post-orgasm brain awareness is actually increased, whereas in females the brain slows down. From what I understand, this is considered an evolutionary thing--males become alert after sex in order to protect the female that they just impregnated, and thus their offspring, from harm. So if that sort of awareness is what is considered to inhibit lucid dreaming, then it might be that women are at a disadvantage when it comes to masturbation. maybe this is one of those counter intuitive studies, but based on nightly experience my brain is definitely not more aware after sex. its sleepy cuddle time.

[Hukif]

Ah, those guidelines sound, wrong <.< • No masturbation. In recent studies, masturbation has been known to not only diminish one's dream recall, but also one's ability to gain consciousness while in a dream. If you cannot prevent yourself from stopping completely, then at least consider reducing the frequency. • At least 6 - 8 hours of sleep. As you may or may not know, when we first go to sleep, we basically just enter a deep sleep for the first four or so hours, and do not enter much REM until after that period. This means that you usually will not dream until around 4 to 5 hours after first going to sleep. On top of that, the 90 minute REM periods, where you can have the most success in, do not begin until around 5 to 6 hours after first going to sleep; so, get more sleep! • Do not drink any fluids for one hour prior to sleeping. The last thing you want is to wake up from a success just because you had to use the restroom. • Keep a written dream journal. I've found it oddly enough that if you write down your dreams, as opposed to typing them, you will benefit much more in terms of dream recall and such. Besides, it's essential to be familiar with your dreams. And, before you think about saying that you don't have enough time, consider waking up 5 to 10 minutes earlier than you usually do so that you do have enough time. 1.- Doesn't sound right to me, unless you have a problem with it and stop sleeping, don't see why it would affect recall or lucidity, it has never done so for me nor for others I know. 2.- This one is mostly right. 3.- Really? Drinking water is a great way to wake up naturally for a WBTB so you can WILD. 4.- This one is right too, but I don't like having to handwrite, word FTW!

[XeL]

I call BS. What "studies" is this based on? Also, as Walms pointed out, drinking water is a great way to do a WBTB.

[Catbus]

I call BS. What "studies" is this based on?. I was wondering the same thing.

[OldNutter]

... I noticed this entire forums is pretty slack about tell other people about their sexual activity. Anyway, I haven't noticed my dream recall being diminished after masturbating.

[Snowy Egypt]

Guys...not for nothing, but I think you're all taking this a little too seriously. I skimmed over those guideline, so I'm not really sure of the details, but if some of the thing are confusing you or are not correct, just ignore them. No need to write off the whole program.

[XeL]

Guys...not for nothing, but I think you're all taking this a little too seriously. I skimmed over those guideline, so I'm not really sure of the details, but if some of the thing are confusing you or are not correct, just ignore them. No need to write off the whole program. I don't think anyone is writing off the whole program. I simply believe that many of us are curious to why they'd write something like this.

[Samael]

I simply believe that many of us are curious to why they'd write something like this. Honestly, I didn't get a very good impression of the program. I really didn't have the patience for how little room it allows for flexibility. I recognize that everyone learns differently, and that some people might benefit from the program being as rigid as it is, but it doesn't really work for me. I've used similar incubation methods to (like I said on the other thread) create environments and meet with characters, and I (perhaps unfairly) resent the implication that their way is the only way, or that skipping steps will lead to ultimate failure. That, and the music was terrible.

[Snowy Egypt]

I don't think anyone is writing off the whole program. I simply believe that many of us are curious to why they'd write something like this. Which is why I ignored the guidelines. The only reason I downloaded it is because I've never mapped out my dreamworld, and this makes me do that. It's fun. It also doesn't hurt that it has such rigid instructions. Besides, it's not like everyone is going to follow them all down to the last letter. I'm on day three, and I can tell you that I barely RCed through the previous days. Hasn't hurt me. I've yet to see a step-by-step LD program that promotes flexibility, so there's always room for improvisation, even if the creator forbids it.