Thread: Am I a rapist?

Had a lucid dream last night where I basically "insisted" that a dream character have sex with me. I was in a dream am talking to a group of beautiful girls and suddenly realized I was dreaming. I became lucid and decided I wanted sex...I mean hey, these girls were hot! Realizing I only had a few minutes at best before losing lucidity I grabbed the hottest one and started making my moves. She wasnt a very "willing" partner but went along with the program anyhow. It was very strange to me since I was very lucid and knew I was dreaming. It was weird that this dream character that I created had her own identity and went along with it even though I could tell she didnt want to. When I woke up I felt like a filthy rapist! To be clear, I have never and would never do this in my waking life but I thought things would be different in the dream world. I always thought that my dream characters were mindless beings simply there for my amusement. Perhaps I was wrong?

I don't see any problem with it whatsoever. Honestly, I almost always get rejected by the girls in my dreams. It sucks. When I do, I always try to have sex with them against their will, or rape them. lol. I don't care, it's my dream and if I wanna have sex i'm not gonna let a figment of my imagination acting in my low self esteem stop me. Honestly sometimes I can't even rape them. Like, when i try to grab them they keep pushing my hands away and i can never even grab onto them. You know your self esteem is low when you can't even successfully rape a girl in your dreams...lol

Lol....I know what you mean Prince....maybe its just my low self esteem I didnt even realize I had expressing itself. As long as I know its not some deep seeded tendencies I have in the real world I can live with taking advantage of chicks in my dream. Guess I just hoped they would be a little sluttier in my dreams...lol. I also have a problem with having an orgasm in my dreams. You would think it would be easier in a lucid dream compared to a real dream but something or someone in the dream always seems to F it up.

I literally raped someone in my second lucid dream, literally, nonconsentual. Feels good man, nothing to feel bad about.

It's not immoral if it's not a real person... unless you subscribe to the belief that videogames and rap music are making kids into violent psychopaths. Besides, it was fun. Wasn't very vivid though... still a LD nub. Can do whatever I want and make people do whatever I want, but feeling still eludes me.

Thats what's cool your mind gives personality to all dream chars. The dream chars will usually deny you, since in RL you know girls will always refuse to be raped. Then your subconscious accepts that you want this to happen, and will change the mindset of that dream char.

Are you a rapist? No. But I wouldn’t call the desire to rape exactly harmless or moral. I’m revolted that it would be considered ok at all, but also unsurprised. To a lot of people on here, lucid dreams seem to be used to fulfill whatever desire that comes into their minds. People are cruel, selfish, and vicious things (Note: I am not excluding myself from this) and so their desires will be less than pretty sometimes.

The difference between this and games or books and such is that it isn’t a story. Its your mind. Its’ a desire your imagining. When you play a game, you don’t really want to kill or maim anyone, you just want to get into some aggressive game play. Beat the other team. Books and movies have evil characters with evil designs. They aren’t you. They aren’t in your head completely. This is the equivalent of you fantasizing about rape during the day, only now with much better tools at your disposal.

Is it as bad as actually raping someone? Of course not. But bear in mind that it’s a reflection of you, of your heart. The fact that you were able to feel guilty about it, and recognized it as wrong is hopeful. Old parables and stories and even TV have been telling us for generations that what we wish for and desire most tells a lot about us. There is some truth in that.

Originally Posted by WhiteKnight

Are you a rapist? No. But I wouldn’t call the desire to rape exactly harmless or moral. I’m revolted that it would be considered ok at all, but also unsurprised. To a lot of people on here, lucid dreams seem to be used to fulfill whatever desire that comes into their minds. People are cruel, selfish, and vicious things (Note: I am not excluding myself from this) and so their desires will be less than pretty sometimes.

The difference between this and games or books and such is that it isn’t a story. Its your mind. Its’ a desire your imagining. When you play a game, you don’t really want to kill or maim anyone, you just want to get into some aggressive game play. Beat the other team. Books and movies have evil characters with evil designs. They aren’t you. They aren’t in your head completely. This is the equivalent of you fantasizing about rape during the day, only now with much better tools at your disposal.

Is it as bad as actually raping someone? Of course not. But bear in mind that it’s a reflection of you, of your heart. The fact that you were able to feel guilty about it, and recognized it as wrong is hopeful. Old parables and stories and even TV have been telling us for generations that what we wish for and desire most tells a lot about us. There is some truth in that.

I second that.

When you are Lucid, you are conscious. Thus, all actions, ideas, imagination are that of who you are. The only reason you do it in your dream is because [1] You want to. [2] You know it is a dream, and is not actually causing harm to anyone.

When you LD, your true desires surface.

I have had my fair share of what would be deemed "inappropriate". Have I thought about these things in RL? Yes. Would I ever do them in RL? Never. If I had the ability to control RL as I do dreams, would I make these events reality?, probably... The thing is, we draw a line between RL and DL, we have morals, dignity, etc.

....but like WhiteKnight said, it does give you a glimpse of who the "inner you" is.

Moral is knowing the difference between right and wrong. It is without a doubt MORALLY WRONG to rape a woman. So rape is MORALLY wrong REGARDLESS if you do it in your head or for real. It is an IMMORAL THOUGHT. The difference is one of the two will land you in prison for about 20 years!

I don't think it has anything to do with you really wanting to rape somebody. It's about wanting to have sex. If you really want to have sex in your dream, and the girls rejecting you, why would you just accept what a dream character you made up said? That's stupid. It's about wanting to have sex, not wanting to rape somebody, and since it harms noone you'll do what it takes to get it.

Now, if i'm being completely honest, rough sex and stuff like that is incredibly hot to me, so having to rape girls in my dream wasn't that bad...lol...criticize me all you want, I would never rape someone in real life, but if it's in a dream I think it's hot.

Originally Posted by Prince_RIP

I don't think it has anything to do with you really wanting to rape somebody. It's about wanting to have sex. If you really want to have sex in your dream, and the girls rejecting you, why would you just accept what a dream character you made up said? That's stupid. It's about wanting to have sex, not wanting to rape somebody, and since it harms noone you'll do what it takes to get it.

Now, if i'm being completely honest, rough sex and stuff like that is incredibly hot to me, so having to rape girls in my dream wasn't that bad...lol...criticize me all you want, I would never rape someone in real life, but if it's in a dream I think it's hot.

If I came across you playing 'rape' with a set of dolls it would be disturbing and wrong. Just because you have better Barbie dolls and lack the ability to display them for the public doesn't make it an improvement.

This line of thinking strikes me as obeying a law about right and wrong, not because you believe and understand that a thing is right or wrong, but because socially or culturally pressured to follow it. Like a child doesn't clean his room because she understands that it is healthy, good and responsible for them to, but only because their parents will spank them if they don't.

Originally Posted by WhiteKnight

If I came across you playing 'rape' with a set of dolls it would be disturbing and wrong. Just because you have better Barbie dolls and lack the ability to display them for the public doesn't make it an improvement.

This line of thinking strikes me as obeying a law about right and wrong, not because you believe and understand that a thing is right or wrong, but because socially or culturally pressured to follow it. Like a child doesn't clean his room because she understands that it is healthy, good and responsible for them to, but only because their parents will spank them if they don't.

Umm where did you get the only reason I wouldn't rape someone in real life was because I would get in trouble? I would never rape someone in real life because I agree that it's wrong to harm other people, letalone in such a severe manner as rape. If i'm in a dream, and I know the person i'm raping is just a character that my subconscious has created, I know that i'm not harming anyone. That is my motivation for not raping someone, not harming them, and if i'm not harming anyone then my motivation for not raping someone is out the window, and I no longer give a fuck. As I said, rough sex turns me on, so raping a girl in my dream is hot to me...once again, the reason I do it and enjoy it is because I know i'm not harming anyone.

Originally Posted by Prince_RIP

Umm where did you get the only reason I wouldn't rape someone in real life was because I would get in trouble? I would never rape someone in real life because I agree that it's wrong to harm other people, letalone in such a severe manner as rape. If i'm in a dream, and I know the person i'm raping is just a character that my subconscious has created, I know that i'm not harming anyone. That is my motivation for not raping someone, not harming them, and if i'm not harming anyone then my motivation for not raping someone is out the window, and I no longer give a fuck. As I said, rough sex turns me on, so raping a girl in my dream is hot to me...once again, the reason I do it and enjoy it is because I know i'm not harming anyone.

I said it strikes me as such. Not that I thought it as such. I'm sorry I should have clarified. However you seem to believe that because it doesn't harm anyone real, that makes it ok. But it doesn't.

Originally Posted by WhiteKnight

I said it strikes me as such. Not that I thought it as such. I'm sorry I should have clarified. However you seem to believe that because it doesn't harm anyone real, that makes it ok. But it doesn't.

I don't seem to think, I do think. It is YOUR opinion that doing something in a dream can be immoral, and that's a position that I truly can't understand.

Nah. If I went and raped someone in a dream, I'd do it because it's fake. That doesn't mean the idea of causing harm to a thinking, real human being who can feel pain, etc. is any less apalling.

TL;DR - It's a dream, do whatever you feel like doing on a whim.

I agree with you whiteknight and thats what concerned me most. I have never had the thoughts or desire to rape a woman. I find it disgusting and sickening. In my dream I never actually forced myself on the her but I could tell that I was fulfilling my own desires and she was an unwilling participant and that somehow she knew she had to comply. I never got physical or abusive with her in any way but just felt bad about it. It was like being with a girl that just laid there wishing she were somewhere else...lol I just dont wont to get into the habit of constantly wanting to have sex in my lucid dreams with the first attractive person I meet. There are so many other things I would rather do but somehow sex seems to be at the top of the list when I finally become lucid. That and flying! I guess a flying fuck would be nice right? But seriously, I would like to be able to control my dreams enough to where sex would be at the bottom of my list or at least find a way where hot women were begging ME for it!

Originally Posted by jeffreydc

I agree with you whiteknight and thats what concerned me most. I have never had the thoughts or desire to rape a woman. I find it disgusting and sickening. In my dream I never actually forced myself on the her but I could tell that I was fulfilling my own desires and she was an unwilling participant and that somehow she knew she had to comply. I never got physical or abusive with her in any way but just felt bad about it. It was like being with a girl that just laid there wishing she were somewhere else...lol I just dont wont to get into the habit of constantly wanting to have sex in my lucid dreams with the first attractive person I meet. There are so many other things I would rather do but somehow sex seems to be at the top of the list when I finally become lucid. That and flying! I guess a flying fuck would be nice right? But seriously, I would like to be able to control my dreams enough to where sex would be at the bottom of my list or at least find a way where hot women were begging ME for it!

I don't know if I can help you with that. Other than make a list of what you want to do and remember item number one for the next time you have a lucid dream. I'm not a strong lucid dreamer so I'm useless here. But seriously, its bad but don't freak out about it. Everyone has some corruption in them, you didn't really rape anyone. It was a desire, that's all. A bad desire, but not an act.

That's when you have to say to yourself, it was all a dream, whats done is done, but damn did it feel good!

Wait, I think what he meant was similar to what I said: it's not rape if you're not raping someone, nor is it wrong.

Thought this could do with the opinion of a girl.

Okay... There is something extremely immoral and disgusting about this... I'm sorry, that's just how I feel as a female, who has been previously raped...

Rape.is.rape.
If you fantasized during the day about rape, would that make you a freak? Yes.
If you have a Lucid dream about raping someone, does that make you a freak? Of course it does.
Let's define Lucid Dream.

A lucid dream is a dream in which the sleeper is aware that she or he is dreaming. When the dreamer is lucid, she or he can actively participate in and often manipulate the imaginary experiences in the dream environment. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream

You made the decisions consciously... Just like if you were to fantasize about it. It may not be harming anyone parse, but you have got to realize that you're the one making those decissions in your dreams, and that is really saying something about your moral.

I find it amazing that anyone would go so far as to rape someone for sex, whether it is in their dreams or real life... I find it even more fascinating that people are actually debating whether it is moral or immoral... I think the answer is clear.
Like WhiteKnight said- it's your choices that make you...
Choices are choices, whether or not they are in your dreams.

Has it ever occurred to you that there may be better things to do in dreams than sex?

Originally Posted by Daydreamer14

Thought this could do with the opinion of a girl.

Okay... There is something extremely immoral and disgusting about this... I'm sorry, that's just how I feel as a female, who has been previously raped...

Rape.is.rape.
If you fantasized during the day about rape, would that make you a freak? Yes.
If you have a Lucid dream about raping someone, does that make you a freak? Of course it does.
Let's define Lucid Dream.


You made the decisions consciously... Just like if you were to fantasize about it. It may not be harming anyone parse, but you have got to realize that you're the one making those decissions in your dreams, and that is really saying something about your moral.

I find it amazing that anyone would go so far as to rape someone for sex, whether it is in their dreams or real life... I find it even more fascinating that people are actually debating whether it is moral or immoral... I think the answer is clear.
Like WhiteKnight said- it's your choices that make you...
Choices are choices, whether or not they are in your dreams.

Has it ever occurred to you that there may be better things to do in dreams than sex?

...Again, that's the same logic that drives homophobia and the desire to take violent video games and movies off the shelves.

By your logic, doing something to a nonexistent thing makes you a freak.

So, say, I was dreaming about war, or reenacting the movie Black Hawk Down. HOLY CRAP SOMEONE GOT KILLED I'M SUCH A SICK BASTARD!!!!

See what I mean? Nobody's getting hurt, therefor it doesn't matter. If a nonexistent woman is nonexistently forced into nonexistent sex in a dream, how is it wrong? Where's the victim? Who is being hurt? Who is being wronged in any way, shape or form?

Besides, what about people who are into rough sex? Maybe it's not rape, maybe the dream character was pretending to be raped, because it was erotic roleplay. Feel better now?

I'm sure being raped sucks. But it's also maybe bending the issue for you here.

No.

Your intentions were merely to have sex. DC resisted but it doesn't matter it's just your imagination, you did nothing wrong. You can even say that technically you raped yourself. If you don't want the DC to resist then it's just a matter of getting better at dream control.

It's your own mind, do whatever you want with it. Nothing you think can be moral or immoral. It is your mind, the only thing other people should be concerned about are your actions. People that try to dictate what you are allowed and not allowed to think or imagine are a much bigger problem to society than people that merely have "dirty thoughts".

Besides, there are couples that role play rape. Is what they do immoral? Of course not, they both consent to it and nobody is being violated.

He's right. Its depends wether the DC resisted BECAUSE you wanted to rape her. Going into a dream with your first thought being a rape is sick. But if your interest was to have sex and simply didnt have enough control to make her WANT to, I guess its not that bad. The line is very thin between good and wrong. Its twisted yes, but heh. Its your dream. Just dont get addicted to rape and try to not repeat it. Youre no monster

I see absolutely no reason for obeying social or ethical standards in your dreams. After all, these standards exist to prevent people from doing harm to each other, and to themselves. In dreams, there is nobody but yourself, and there is no evidence whatsoever that the behaviour we are discussing here damages people in real life.

I really object to the people here defining ones morality by his decisions in his dream life, and to say that choices in your dreams are no different than choices in waking life. How can you say such a thing? Waking life is not the same as dreams, and the choices you make are not the same. Not even close. Who are you to tell me I'm a horrible person if I act on fantasies or urges that would not be acceptable in waking life in my dreams?

When you play a game, you don’t really want to kill or maim anyone, you just want to get into some aggressive game play. Beat the other team.

Oh come on, of course you do. Say I'm playing a shooter, of course I want to kill my enemies. In some games, I want to beat them up and brutally end their lives. If it's a well constructed game, it causes me to have an actual desire to kill these enemies, and I am offered a choice. So it is immoral if I choose to be the bad guy in a game and kill the characters? After all, it is the CHOICE that makes me a horrible person, right?

Old parables and stories and even TV have been telling us for generations that what we wish for and desire most tells a lot about us. There is some truth in that.

This is where I fundamentally disagree. You seem to suggest that to have desires that are morally wrong, makes you wrong. Everyone has desires, and some of us have desires that are considered immoral or unethical. We do not decide over which desires we have. Fortunately, we do have the ability to ignore our desires and not act on them, because our consience and sense of morality is stronger than these desires. And I absolutely do not believe that acting on desires in dreams will in any way affect this ability.

Originally Posted by Bowie

Oh come on, of course you do. Say I'm playing a shooter, of course I want to kill my enemies. In some games, I want to beat them up and brutally end their lives. If it's a well constructed game, it causes me to have an actual desire to kill these enemies, and I am offered a choice. So it is immoral if I choose to be the bad guy in a game and kill the characters? After all, it is the CHOICE that makes me a horrible person, right?

So if you were put in a real-life situation the same as the game you would want the same thing? A story is a story. Even in RPGs where you play a bad guy is something completely different. If you say to yourself, "I will play a bad guy because it makes for an interesting story" yeah, ok, fine. But to play a game as the bad guy simply because you want to do bad things, yeah that is a bit wrong.

You are incorrect when you say we can't decide our desires. Can we stop all the bad ones coming into our mind? No, we can't. People are broken like that. But we can shoo them away, we can not feed them by dwelling on them.

Look this all comes down to if you believe that evil is simply and only an act. I do not. A two year old who hits a child doesn't have a sense of right and wrong, or even empathy. A machine that mangles the arm of a factory worker cannot have a sense of right and wrong and never will. Do we call either of them evil or wrong? Of course not, because they don't understand the concept. They don't have a choice. When someone does something wrong it is not just the act that is wrong, it is wrong because they knew what right and wrong was, and chose wrong.

There seems to be a belief that your imagination should be some sort of speakeasy as far as morality. That it doesn't apply because its not real. It is true that its no where as near bad as actually doing bad things, but are you to remain a good person only when there are others about you? Only when you don't have omnipotent powers and are a part of the general public? Imagination IS part of the person, and it can affect them. Sometimes in large ways sometimes in small. You can see that with any child who wanders out in the dark and becomes frightened at all the things he conjures in his head, or the person who works themselves into a rage at slights that may or may not have actually been there.

Originally Posted by WhiteKnight

So if you were put in a real-life situation the same as the game you would want the same thing? A story is a story. Even in RPGs where you play a bad guy is something completely different. If you say to yourself, "I will play a bad guy because it makes for an interesting story" yeah, ok, fine. But to play a game as the bad guy simply because you want to do bad things, yeah that is a bit wrong.

No, I would not do the same thing, that is my whole point. I have the ability to make a distinction between real life and imagination. And I disagree with your last point, I do not think it is wrong to play a bad guy to do bad things. In fact, I believe it can be an outlet for certain people.

You are incorrect when you say we can't decide our desires. Can we stop all the bad ones coming into our mind? No, we can't. People are broken like that. But we can shoo them away, we can not feed them by dwelling on them.

This is similar to what I was saying. I think that we can not control which desires we have, but we have the ability to ignore them and not let them lead to actions.

Look this all comes down to if you believe that evil is simply and only an act. I do not. A two year old who hits a child doesn't have a sense of right and wrong, or even empathy. A machine that mangles the arm of a factory worker cannot have a sense of right and wrong and never will. Do we call either of them evil or wrong? Of course not, because they don't understand the concept. They don't have a choice. When someone does something wrong it is not just the act that is wrong, it is wrong because they knew what right and wrong was, and chose wrong.

There seems to be a belief that your imagination should be some sort of speakeasy as far as morality. That it doesn't apply because its not real. It is true that its no where as near bad as actually doing bad things, but are you to remain a good person only when there are others about you? Only when you don't have omnipotent powers and are a part of the general public? Imagination IS part of the person, and it can affect them. Sometimes in large ways sometimes in small. You can see that with any child who wanders out in the dark and becomes frightened at all the things he conjures in his head, or the person who works themselves into a rage at slights that may or may not have actually been there.

As long as a person is able to make a clear distinction between right and wrong, and imagination/dream and reality, I truly see no harm in imagining or dreaming about immoral or unethical acts. If a person is not able to fully distinguish reality from fantasy or dreaming, and starts to act on his fantasies, which he might have experienced in dreams, in real life, I'd say it is dangerous for a person like this to deliberately dream about these acts. But for the majority of the population who are able to make these distinctions, I think it is perfectly safe.