Thread: Inherited Lucid Dreaming

Originally Posted by AL3ZAY

If I told you at 5 years old about lucid dreaming, how much more effort would you have put into practicing it, versus if I had told you at 20 years old when you had a (hypothetical) clear-cut belief that dreaming was pointless, and control not possible, despite the truth that one can lucid dream?

I couldn't agree less, I can safely say that idea does not represent most dreamers here. I didn't bother getting into lucid dreaming until at a later age when I had the patience to read through material, and the ability to control my sleep patterns. A 5 year old would not understand lucid dreams, let alone develop their own methods. That is really outrageous to even humour.

Originally Posted by Loaf

I couldn't agree less, I can safely say that idea does not represent most dreamers here. I didn't bother getting into lucid dreaming until at a later age when I had the patience to read through material, and the ability to control my sleep patterns. A 5 year old would not understand lucid dreams, let alone develop their own methods. That is really outrageous to even humour.

The bold statement is only an assumption you have made, not fact whatsoever.

At a later age, you had gone how many years without actively pursuing dreaming? How many years without engaging those parts of the mind that lucid dreaming engages? Being a proficient lucid dreamer requires practice just like any other skill one acquires. If you are proficient at something and go 20 years without using that skill, will you be able to use it how you did 20 years ago with great skill and control? No. However if you are still young with all of those faculties of the mind still ripe and only briefly unused, why is it exactly that one could not understand a natural part of our experience as humans, just because they are young? Children don't have the misfortune of having a predisposition belief-wise to something like dreaming, and are curious about everything. Most wonder what it is before they are then told what they believe about dreaming later on in life. If that belief changes, it's only because they found out what they intuitively thought about dreaming in the first place to be true.

Explain to me what is so confounding and complex about lucid dreaming that a 5 year old could not understand it. They can experience it as freely as any adult, so why can they not understand it?

Many of the natural lucid dreamers as they are called, started lucid dreaming in childhood.

Originally Posted by AL3ZAY

The bold statement is only an assumption you have made, not fact whatsoever.

Having lived with and therefore been around a fair share of 5 year olds and had nothing more interesting to talk about than dreams with them, I have talked about lucid dreaming with many, and even tried to get my sister into it and the case is always the same. They don't fully appreciate or understand how to utilize sleeping techniques. You must not be very good with children if you honestly believe a 5 year old has more mental capacity to learn lucid dreaming than an adult; come on, that is just stupid to even suggest.

Two points.

There is no such thing as Inherited Lucid Dreaming. You can't inherit it.

Loaf is a troll.

Originally Posted by lucidmax15895

Loaf is a troll.

You're an idiot. Boohoo I disagree with you and I'm not afraid to say it, I must be trolling. You embarrassment.

Originally Posted by Loaf

Having lived with and therefore been around a fair share of 5 year olds and had nothing more interesting to talk about than dreams with them, I have talked about lucid dreaming with many, and even tried to get my sister into it and the case is always the same. They don't fully appreciate or understand how to utilize sleeping techniques. You must not be very good with children if you honestly believe a 5 year old has more mental capacity to learn lucid dreaming than an adult; come on, that is just stupid to even suggest.

I could actually say that about you, because I have had no problem in aiding my younger cousins to lucid dream. For some it is primarily a weekend thing because of school. You cannot explain things in a manner too complex for their current intellect, and the way you explain things needs to engage their imagination right away, so that they actively seek information. If that is not what happens, then you are at fault in your teaching method, not the child. The only sleeping technique they need is WBTB. 6 hours of sleep, 1 hour awake (usually a drawing activity or something to engage their imagination even more), 2 more hours of sleep. I did not specifically state that children have more mental capacity to learn lucid dreaming than an adult. I said they grasp concepts easier than adults. Dreaming, being very imagination based and abstract, is right up a child's curiosity alley. Call it what you will, to each his own.

First off, Loaf you seem to be acting as if you are an authority on this discussion. It seems to me that any argument you have is a complete assumption. I truly have no idea if a slight edge in lucid dreaming can be passed genetically, and neither do you. It seems very possible to me that inherited genetics could make one more susceptible to being consciously aware in the dream state. As for genetics directly aiding lucidity, I doubt that would be the case. Some dreamers minds can more easily adapt to lucidity and the awareness that leads to lucidity. Do you not think that could be passed on to another generation? I don't see why not.

Just to throw this out there, I found out a couple months ago that my grandfather is a natural lucid dreamer. Me, my father, and I were watching Inception and I brought up lucid dreaming. My dad knows I am a lucid dreamer and he has had one himself basically from hearing me talk about it (which is understandable). What blew my mind, however, was my 72 year old grandpa joined in and I learned he had been naturally lucid dreaming all his life. Now, he didn't have them every night, but he said he has had around 5-10 a month ever since he can remember. Sooooo, its also possible that it skips a generation like so many other inherited traits. Just saying.

Originally Posted by KingYoshi

First off, Loaf you seem to be acting as if you are an authority on this discussion. It seems to me that any argument you have is a complete assumption.

No, I speak on experience and evidence I can find. Please don't tell me you will even humour the idea that a 5 year old has more mental capacity to learn lucidity than an adult, you know that isn't true and I do because, as I said, I am around young child a lot and I live in a family with them. Yes, that doesn't mean its the end all of that side of the discussion but that doesn't mean I am assuming either.

Originally Posted by KingYoshi

I truly have no idea if a slight edge in lucid dreaming can be passed genetically, and neither do you.

You are totally right. So since we can't prove you can, lets not walk about saying we can! Bring some evidence to the table and prove me wrong. c:

Originally Posted by AL3ZAY

If I told you at 5 years old about lucid dreaming, how much more effort would you have put into practicing it, versus if I had told you at 20 years old when you had a (hypothetical) clear-cut belief that dreaming was pointless, and control not possible, despite the truth that one can lucid dream? Children are highly receptive to learning in their first 5 years, more-so than adults. Children can learn multiple languages easier than an adult can, among other things. That's how you get child prodigies.

Obviously the information being taught has to be valid, but it can be grasped easily if you use the right method. Similar to "brainetics" or "your baby can read" methods of teaching kids to read and perform math in their head. My 5 year old cousin is rather skilled at Street Fighter IV after only 10 hours of teaching him the mechanics of the game the way you'd teach someone who wanted to go pro in the game. I have friends who have played with me for over a year and he is almost as good as them because he understands the game on a mechanics level based on what I taught him. Obviously he's not perfect and makes mistakes and mental mind games get the better of him at times, but he learns fast, and I've learned that's pretty common of children in general. They learn quickly if they are taught in a way that is engaging.

Now it may be the fact that I'm an adult confusing me here

The hinge of your argument is that adults come with a bag of beliefs that undermine their LDing, while a child doesn't. That's not a feature of being an adult- it's a feature of being close-minded. Sure- a kid won't dismiss LDing offhand. But they also believe in Harry Potter. Being an adult, however, gives you an advantage in the discipline and determination department. I'm not saying you couldn't teach a kid to LD, but I don't think they have a natural affinity for grasping concepts. In fact the lightning coming out of my hands is even more likely to make an adult do an RC than a child.

Originally Posted by KingYoshi

Just to throw this out there, I found out a couple months ago that my grandfather is a natural lucid dreamer. Me, my father, and I were watching Inception and I brought up lucid dreaming. My dad knows I am a lucid dreamer and he has had one himself basically from hearing me talk about it (which is understandable). What blew my mind, however, was my 72 year old grandpa joined in and I learned he had been naturally lucid dreaming all his life. Now, he didn't have them every night, but he said he has had around 5-10 a month ever since he can remember. Sooooo, its also possible that it skips a generation like so many other inherited traits. Just saying.

Everyone is a natural lucid dreamer. What would an 'unnatural lucid dream' be?

I think he is implying the ability to regularly and unknowingly become aware you are asleep. Everyone I know becomes aware randomly in their sleep every so often. Just none of them understand it and don't utilize it.

Originally Posted by Velzhaed

Now it may be the fact that I'm an adult confusing me here

The hinge of your argument is that adults come with a bag of beliefs that undermine their LDing, while a child doesn't. That's not a feature of being an adult- it's a feature of being close-minded. Sure- a kid won't dismiss LDing offhand. But they also believe in Harry Potter. Being an adult, however, gives you an advantage in the discipline and determination department. I'm not saying you couldn't teach a kid to LD, but I don't think they have a natural affinity for grasping concepts. In fact the lightning coming out of my hands is even more likely to make an adult do an RC than a child.

Adults come with a bag of experiences that shape their beliefs, while a child doesn't. I will agree that one has to have a degree of closed-mindedness to just dismiss LDing, but one can only be closed-minded if they are an adult, or near that status. Children are naturally curious and open minded, and yes they do believe everything, and that's why they need guidance. But, they can still be taught, and easily so long as you use the right method of teaching them. If they are infatuated with Harry Potter, well in their dreams they can do magic, and can adventure with Harry Potter if they wanted to. How much attention do you think you'd have from the kid if you told them that? Full attention. They'd want to know everything they had to do, what to look for, everything if it's true that they can experience it, and they will believe they can. It's a very common theme in this forum and among lucid dreamers that by going to bed believing you will lucid dream 100%, usually, that is the outcome. Things that we'd consider complex such as reality checking, is not too hard for a child if you give them an easy one to perform and remember such as holding their nostrils closed and trying to breathe through them. If you can, you're dreaming, if not, you're awake. A child engages their imagination more than an adult do they not? Dreaming experiences are highly based on your own imagination. A child's determination to adventure with Harry Potter will eclipse any adult determination just to lucid dream in the first place.

Hmm...

Originally Posted by Loaf

No, I speak on experience and evidence I can find. Please don't tell me you will even humour the idea that a 5 year old has more mental capacity to learn lucidity than an adult, you know that isn't true and I do because, as I said, I am around young child a lot and I live in a family with them. Yes, that doesn't mean its the end all of that side of the discussion but that doesn't mean I am assuming either.

I'm strictly speaking on inheriting a genetic trait that would allow you to more easily distinguish between the dream state and waking life. A genetic trait that affects/aides the mind. It seems extremely possible. I had lucid dreams off and on ever since I can remember. My earliest memory of becoming lucid is like 1st grade. I have had at least one or two a month nearly my entire life. I didn't even know the term lucid dream until I joined Dream Views at 20 years old. I had my first purposely induced lucid dream the night I joined Dream Views and I have had at least 10+ every month since. Now, I'm not saying I am proof, but I easily picked up on lucid dreaming because I had a slight natural ability. This is why I believe there could possibly be some sort of genetic make-up that could aide lucid training/practice. That paired with the fact that my grandfather has been lucid dreaming all his life and never even knew the term "lucid dream."

You are totally right. So since we can't prove you can, lets not walk above saying we can! Bring some evidence to the table and prove me wrong. c:

First off, why am I proving you wrong? Where is your proof? Secondly, read the above paragraph for the closest thing I have to proof.

Originally Posted by Velzhaed

Everyone is a natural lucid dreamer. What would an 'unnatural lucid dream' be?

No, no...everyone is NOT a natural lucid dreamer. A natural lucid dreamer is someone who becomes lucid without doing anything. Someone who has had lucid dreams all of their life, without ever being told/informed about lucid dreaming in the first place. Someone who naturally distinguishes the dream state from the waking state without purposely setting forth to do so.

Originally Posted by Loaf

I think he is implying the ability to regularly and unknowingly become aware you are asleep. Everyone I know becomes aware randomly in their sleep every so often. Just none of them understand it and don't utilize it.

No they do not Loaf. Where do you get this stuff? I have talked extensively to many, many people about lucid dreaming. 70% (an estimate of course) of these people have never once realized they were dreaming whilst within a dream. Please refrain from making these wild assumptions.

You're lumping children into this "open minded curiosity" that I can not agree with. I worked in a grade school for three years, and I watched first graders break down into tears cause they couldn't hit a ball, and 6th graders who believed everything an adult said to them was a bold-faced lie. I think your generalizing too much.

That's because children ARE open minded and curious. All children are like this starting out, and it's their parents and other adults that shape the beliefs and behaviors they display in a place like school.

If a child's mom tells them "dreaming doesn't exist", the child will believe that, and defend what his mom told him for forever and a day, because that's his mom and she has to be right. That's a belief being set in the curious child who had to ask a question to receive the response that shaped the belief in the first place. It's not that the child isn't naturally curious, it's that his curiosity has already been met with an answer from a trusted source of information, which creates the belief and removes the curiosity from that particular subject.

Originally Posted by Loaf

You're an idiot. Boohoo I disagree with you and I'm not afraid to say it, I must be trolling. You embarrassment.

LOL loaf, I said only one on topic thing, and it was

Originally Posted by lucidmax15895

There is no such thing as Inherited Lucid Dreaming. You can't inherit it.

So basically,

Boohoo I disagree with you and I'm not afraid to say it

That made me LOL. Stop being so sensitive.

I'm not so sure if Lucid Dreaming has a correlation to genetics, though I think seeing some studies being done on it would be cool. However, as one user mentioned before.. some studies show that sleep paralysis can in fact be genetic.

Sleep paralysis occurs most often after jet lag or periods of sleeplessness that interrupt the normal REM patterns. It affects both sexes equally and occurs at all ages but is most common in teenagers. Sleep paralysis can be familial and may be genetic (inherited) in some cases.

Perhaps lucid dreaming is to genetics the same way as being an olympic runner is to genetics. While the runner may have been born with genes that predisposed him to being a better athlete, his hard work and training is what got him to the olympics.

-shrug- Food for thought.

I am not making wild assumptions King Yoshi, claiming so is only fueling your own ignorance. You wrote it, not me. Unless you are unable to use the English language correctly, thats what you wrote. And what aren't you understanding? I am saying no proof = no theory. You telling me I'm wrong? Or just making a moot point. There is no evidence there is any genetic relation to lucid dreaming, get some or get out.

Originally Posted by AL3ZAY

If a child's mom tells them "dreaming doesn't exist", the child will believe that, and defend what his mom told him for forever and a day, because that's his mom and she has to be right.

You must have a very strange relationship with your parents. If my mother told me dreaming didn't exists I would not have believed her...because I had dreams. If what you're saying was true every child would have the same religious views as their parents. What age range are you talking about? It sounds like very young, but you used your 12 year old cousin to illustrate your point.

I am convinced AL3ZAY is speaking strictly from his own experience and expecting it to be generalized across everyone else. Its weird. 0_o

Originally Posted by Velzhaed

You must have a very strange relationship with your parents. If my mother told me dreaming didn't exists I would not have believed her...because I had dreams. If what you're saying was true every child would have the same religious views as their parents. What age range are you talking about? It sounds like very young, but you used your 12 year old cousin to illustrate your point.

Why would you imply I have a strange relationship with my parents based on a hypothetical example? Every child, from age 4 - 13 pretty much does have the same religious views as their parents. Show me a 6, 8, 10, or 12 year old who's got differing religious views from their parents based on knowledge they've gathered on their own. And I used my 5 year old cousin as an example, so I don't know what you mean by a 12 year old, as I never mentioned one.

Originally Posted by Loaf

I am not making wild assumptions King Yoshi, claiming so is only fueling your own ignorance. You wrote it, not me. Unless you are unable to use the English language correctly, thats what you wrote. And what aren't you understanding? I am saying no proof = no theory. You telling me I'm wrong? Or just making a moot point. There is no evidence there is any genetic relation to lucid dreaming, get some or get out.

Lol, there is no ignorance in my post, or any of my posts for that matter. Just a little heads up for you. You just told me that EVERYONE you know has become naturally lucid before. I am sorry, but that is a wild assumption. Plain and simple.

Originally Posted by AL3ZAY

Why would you imply I have a strange relationship with my parents based on a hypothetical example? Every child, from age 4 - 13 pretty much does have the same religious views as their parents. Show me a 6, 8, 10, or 12 year old who's got differing religious views from their parents based on knowledge they've gathered on their own. And I used my 5 year old cousin as an example, so I don't know what you mean by a 12 year old, as I never mentioned one.

Originally Posted by AL3ZAY

That's because children ARE open minded and curious. All children are like this starting out, and it's their parents and other adults that shape the beliefs and behaviors they display in a place like school.

If a child's mom tells them "dreaming doesn't exist", the child will believe that, and defend what his mom told him for forever and a day, because that's his mom and she has to be right. That's a belief being set in the curious child who had to ask a question to receive the response that shaped the belief in the first place. It's not that the child isn't naturally curious, it's that his curiosity has already been met with an answer from a trusted source of information, which creates the belief and removes the curiosity from that particular subject.

You guys have got to stop using these words... "all, everyone, every, everybody." Didn't you guys learn that in school. Not all children think imaginary things are real. Ever since I first heard the story of Santa Claus I knew it wasn't real. I never believed it once. I was around 3 years old, questioning every hole in the Santa Claus story. I may have been in the minority, but I guarantee there are plenty of other children just like that. Not all children believe that a fat man in a red suit flys reindeer around the world to every single house in a single night. I knew how long it took to get from point A to B. I road in many a car as a child. I have never saw this "magic" everyone spoke of. I was the kid who ruined the thumb removal trick for everybody. I guarantee I wasn't the only one either. I was forced to go to church from an early age, but I was never an actual believer. Even as a child. Just because you are a child doesn't mean you are unintelligent. Surely, you understand this?

For the record, if you use "every," "all," or any variation of these, 99% of the time, you are wrong in your statement.

Originally Posted by KingYoshi

You just told me that EVERYONE you know has become naturally lucid before. I am sorry, but that is a wild assumption. Plain and simple.

God KingYoshi, you are such an arrogant person. I talk about lucid dreaming with my friends, my information is legitimate, I should know. Telling me I am making this up is offensive, and very ignorant.
What, you know better than me when it comes to where I get my sources and what I do with my contacts? You are talking out of your place.

Hmm, sorry I didn't realize that you and your friends were the authority on genetic inheritance. For the record, it is always a wild assumption when you use the words everyone, all, everybody, etc. You are trying to speak for the entire world, while I am using simple logic.

Originally Posted by Loaf

God KingYoshi, you are such an arrogant person. I talk about lucid dreaming with my friends, my information is legitimate, I should know. Telling me I am making this up is offensive, and very ignorant.
What, you know better than me when it comes to where I get my sources and what I do with my contacts? You are talking out of your place.

Nah, I'm just a baller!

Originally Posted by AL3ZAY

Why would you imply I have a strange relationship with my parents based on a hypothetical example? Every child, from age 4 - 13 pretty much does have the same religious views as their parents. Show me a 6, 8, 10, or 12 year old who's got differing religious views from their parents based on knowledge they've gathered on their own. And I used my 5 year old cousin as an example, so I don't know what you mean by a 12 year old, as I never mentioned one.

Apologies for that: 5 year old. But I don't think we're getting anywhere. I'm saying that as a 30 year old who has worked in the public school system I have a decent grasp of what children are capable of. You don't agree. I don't think everyone under 13 automatically believes everything their parents say. That's where my 'strange relationship' comment came from. Did you really just accept everything your parents said before you were 13? Were you home every day before dark so the strangers wouldn't take you home? Did you never lie cause they told you not to? Were you nice to everyone cause that's the Golden Rule? I can say from MY experience- No. Nor is that what I have seen.

I'll just agree to disagree. You want to say you're from a line of "natural" lucid dreams? Okay. The titles you give to yourself dont' effect me. It's not any worse than the Nomad crowd explaining how they battled off a dream-stalker with their totem katana.


...However I would like to point out that I come from a long line of werewolves. We were watching the Wolfman the other day and I said "Hey- I do that." And my dad was like "I've only done it a few times." But my grandpa was like "I do it 10-15 times a month." I guess werewolfyness skips a generation, like most made-up talents.