Starting over again.

**Lunary** · 09-29-2011 09:34 PM

(To any new lucid dreamer do not get scared by this, I'm just a special case and I know that lol.)

I tried lucid dreaming before and I succeded quite fast but from the first lucid dream I had quite some issues with them, one of them being that I actually started feeling pain in them which transfered over to my normal dreams so as of right now I have quite a few dreams where I get sadistically hurt and feel the pain, last night's dream being a dog biting me.

I stoped lucid dreaming as right from the start all lucid dreams were nightmares and they just went worse and worse and I was completely unable to control them even if I tried I couldn't do anything even if I was convinced (Heck I spend like 10 minutes saying "I CAN GO TROUGH THE WALL!" only to hit myself against it HARD and keep on again being confused why it doesn't work and that it SHOULD work lol). Well the breaking point was Lucid dream stream, I would basically shiver all over (Like when WILD-ing sensations) but instead being normal they were quite painfull, where I would go into a dream (After feeling like my soul got ripped out of me) be paralised and in pain for 1 minute or so only to "Wake up" and instantly feel extremely sleepy and close my eyes only to feel painfull WILD sensations again and be forced into another lucid dream (If I actually ever got out!) and so on for 12 times or more where I was literately screaming for it to stop lol because I was scared that I'd die or something every time.

I am unsure what I was doing wrong but I'm sure I was doing something wrong but I am willing to try again as I still feel those concequenses of trying to lucid dream (Dream physical pain and worser nightmares which are 99% of my dreams now!). I tried looking around on this forum for that place where you can have a dream teacher or something a person that can teach you but I cannot find that section, does it even exist anymore? I'd like to ask someone experianced about this stuff...I don't want to do the same mistake again if I did any at all.

**Avalanche** · 09-29-2011 10:45 PM

I'm not sure if I can/should do this, but I would recommend talking to Wakingnomad. He is very skilled with dream sharing, if you read his dream journal, he has a lot of entries that tie in with the people he says he dream shares with. You could ask him to share a dream with you and help you out. The only problem is he refuses to dream share with people other than a few people as he says it give them nightmares or something.

Note that this is all me talking, he might come here and say something completely different. All I know is I asked him if he wouldn't mind dream sharing with me a few months ago and he refused saying it would only give me nightmares, plus loads of people ask him and he simply does not want to waste him time dream sharing with anyone who just wants to try it.

You might be different enough to warrant his attention. He isn't a jackass, not helping me, he has good reasons which I understand. He might help you though if it really is a problem.

Again, I'm not sure if I should be pointing you in his direction for him.

**Lunary** · 09-29-2011 10:52 PM

I don't want to bother him, he probably has way too much stuff to work with, I'm just asking if anyone can help me because I am getting somewhat depressed over my dreams, before trying to lucid dream my normal dreams were mostly nightmares but atleast they didn't have any physical pain that I felt (Even if the dream is in 3rd person I still feel the pain now). And I would atleast have silly dreams that cheered me up when I'm sad(I don't have those anymore at all). Now I just get those sadistic dreams that hurt me. Like my sub-concious hates me or something.

So yeah, I am not gonna ask anyone with private messages, if anyone is willing to help I would appreciate it but I am not gonna bother anyone ^^;;

But thanks anyways. ^^

**Raetin** · 09-30-2011 12:15 AM

You should try to avoid painful looking things in your lucid dream, like jumping off a cliff, trying to go through a wall, etc. When there's a thing hurting you, ask why it's hurting you, try befriending it. Also when you get hurt in a lucid dream, remember this pain is just a figment of your imagination. Also it's normal to feel pain in a dream, though it sounds like you get hurt all the time.

**StaySharp** · 09-30-2011 12:41 AM

I agree that it does sound like you're a special case. Nightmares tend to occur to people with bad self-confidence. Mind asking me if that could be part of the problem?
And how does it look with your sleep in general? What techniques where you using so far?

Maybe I can come up with some ideas if you give a few more details of what is and was happening.

**Lunary** · 09-30-2011 07:42 AM

Well alot of stuff happened so if I started saying all my lucid+lucid related experiances it would be far too big of a post. So I'll just say a few of them that seem more important.

I was really enthusiastic all the time about all this stuff, I know I usually have low self-confidence but I was really worked up on this and that It must work!

First I was just reading about all this stuff, I wanted to know how to do it all completely, I was doing reality checks but those didn't give much succes so one day I woke up early and was really sleepy and wanted to go back to sleep but I looked up other tehniques and tried to MILD but as I was actually talking to myself that I will be lucid and all what happened was that my body in 3 minutes or so automatically went into SP, my body couldn't move I didn't mind it at first altrough I was wondering what was going on and then suddently I started gently shaking all over soon enough my body being covered in some sort of aura/blancket that was a part of my body, I felt a bit smaller but stragely light, I got scared at that point and tried to get out of it, which I did after a few seconds the ending actually ending with some strange sound something like when they shoot photon torpedoes in Star trek. XD I did get scared of that but that didn't stop me, I readed about WILD and figured it was that, I thought that maybe I should do that since it happened just like that, but I couldn't get past when my body breathes less air so I kept trying and one day when I failed again I just started MILD'ing and after 3 minutes of it I went to sleep normaly, what happened was that I got past all that white flash, breathe less, SP and hallucinations(More or less) and I just woke up(Didn't actually move or anything as I couldn't because my mind was focused on the shivers and my eyes were closed all the time) so after that I felt my body gently de-tach itself from my body and then it started moving. It was moving for a long time it felt like my body was a roller-coaster train thingy, it was fun at first but it started getting boring wondering when I would actually get into a dream, so I tried opening my eyes to check if I'm in a dream but as soon as I did slightly open them I saw my room from my lying viewpoint in bed so I quickly closed them hoping I didn't mess us. As I did that I felt as if I was standing but I couldn't move, I heard a voice, a gentle yet very confident and strong voice talk to me "What are you doing here?" I replied "Am I dreaming?" it said "Yes, do you need any help" I wasn't exactly fully "Awake" and was more leaded by what I wanted so I said "I'd like to have a person in my dream" the voice asked "How many?" I replied "One" the voice got angry at me and said "Just one!?" I still wasn't in right mind and calmly replied "Yes, just one" the voice got even more angry and it said "GET LOST!" Then I felt 2 orbs grab me by my hands, pull my hands up and start dragging me away. They kept dragging me for a while, I couldn't move nor open my eyes...after a while I hear the voice again saying(I can't fully remember but it was something like this) "You are going to hell's island, to fight for survival" I instantly shouted "Noooo!" and I woke up, but I quickly realised I was in a dream so it was my first lucid, I saw my small dog sit and stare at me, I pointed at it and laughed saying "You're not real!" and the dog just dissapeared. As I was about to get up the dog appeared again and jumped at me, it forced me to lie down and I was instantly paralised, shivering all over. I was a bit scared but I instantly tried to speak, I couldn't speak but I forced out the word "M-m...moon" a person I know and am close to. As I said that I heard a voice down infront of the bad say "Get off of him you mutt!" and the dog dissapeared again, the shivers were gone and I looked down at who it was (I was still paralised) I saw a Moops with a skull head as a necklace and it said it was Moon's friend. that's when I woke up from my first lucid.

I wasn't scared of it I was just kinda sad that nothing too special happened, I didn't think about the voice that talked to me before I got into the dream where I can see and all. Maybe I should have payed more attention to it, I don't know. From that point on I kept doing that tehnique, it working every single time(It just took the will to actually do it so I didn't do it everyday). Every dream being either letting me do stuff but passivelly with kinda scary motives(For example I was in my room just testing out how it is to change surroundings. failing badly of course lol. I turned my room into a room full of random stuff from different cultures when I tried to make it a valley. Anyways the scary part was when I got out of my room I saw my mom, asked where someone is, she said she doesn't know and then turned into a skeleton with hair. I screamed and told her it's not funny and that she should go back to normal form and she did, saying sorry. I asked her again saying that he SHOULD be around here, she said that he's outside somewhere so I went looking, finding someone dissing that person, I wanted to call them a liar but I didn't, waking up as I decided that). A few dreams like that and then I found out about sub-concious and dream guide so I tried calling out to it, but everytime I called out to it something attacked me, first it was some monkey that was friendy but it died saying that they are coming for me, getting chased by people I didn't see. they cornered me and when I tried to look who they are my vision went so blurry that I couldn't make out anything and a LOUD beeping sound in my ears, it ended by me jumping into a river, other times for example when I called out to it a Giant tiger would jump me out of nowhere and stuff like that. So the more I tried the more I got attacked, as if I wasn't welcome in dreams. And in the end I ended having 96% of the dreams me being paralised in bed and literaly forced out by something unseen by my bed, I could see something there but it was transparent and blurry and I can't talk to it as I am too paralised to talk or do anything for that matter since I am extremely sleepy too even if it is a dream.

I don't know if you want me to go into more detail about the dreams but I'll just say this so I don't bother you with too much stuff at once. XD

**StaySharp** · 09-30-2011 09:25 AM

More details probably wouldn't hurt but that's already something I can think about. I also read your DJ entry for further reference. Since I barely had any nightmares or lucids at all I can only think about it from a distanced view though, but I'll try to come up with something useful.

It looks to me like you're dead-locked in the 80-90% lucid range, going by this thread: http://www.dreamviews.com/f11/levels-lucidity-36173/ I guess you are never really in control of anything maybe besides your own actions within dreams, lucid or not?
If that's the case I think it might be a big part of the nightmare problem. You have big trouble calling your dream guide and you can't really assume control on your own, it sounds like something pretty tricky. Assuming control on your own might be easier once you know how this control feels like so it might be worth a try to get there once somehow, as well as somehow rising your awareness, try to shake of your tiredness. As I read in your DJ entry you fight back when you get attacked which is a good start, one possibility might be trying to call your dream guide, being ready to put up a fight for it. Also judging by the black eevee that appeared not everything within your dreams is hostile and it seemed to be an independent lifeform within your dream, you might be able to make use of that. You can't control the dream on your own or call your dream guide but what about granting dream guide like powers to someone within your dream who is definitely friendly and who's already there, doesn't need to be called anymore?

That's everything I can think of now, but maybe I'll be able to come up with more ideas later when you answer the questions in this post or throw out some more details.

On a side note, a eevee is actually the first lifeform I saw in my first lucid dream after gaining lucidity

**Avalanche** · 09-30-2011 06:33 PM

Don't think you are not enough to bother Wakingnomad. As I said, he's a nice guy. When I asked him I was just desperate for a lucid, and quite wisely he said no and let me get on with it myself.

But I would bet that if you did explain to him that you are having actual problems, not just "I can't do this, help me out", then he might possibly oblige. He is not a samaratin, but he is helpful and might give you a helping hand. It's not like dreaming is his work and he literally has no time to spare.

**Lunary** · 09-30-2011 08:32 PM

As for control I have 0 control, it's like I'm watching in first person myself who knows that I'm dreaming(I can feel the breathing and most of the times all is white and black but rarely has weak colors, and of course I can feel Physical pain but not touch or anything), actions are determined by what I wanted most before I started sleeping (Hence I started telling myself what to do but if it's "Impossible" as in "I want to stay in my dream" it doesn't happen and I do random stuff that I wanted before that.) As for actually trying something afterwards I said that my lucid attempts got me forced out (When I get lucid first thing I am in bed and the second I do a action, even THINK something I get paralised, shiver all over in pain and see that blur and get forced out) I did try to talk to my sub-concious like this but seems that Yranul wasn't my sub-concious (Or atleast so I think) Cause he was all cold towards me and didn't really care, he could stand to see me cry and he would ignore me, only when he'd talk to me was when I was feeling normaly and he would barely say anything and always had some lame excuse for ignoring and why dreams sucked like "It wasn't on purpose..." and everytime I asked him to try he said that he promised to do it and next day say that he can't do it, either cause he's shy or that he can't do it at all. Basically whatever I tried, I tried comforting him (I helped him over 3 times with serious stuff) I tried making him feel comfortable and all but to no awail, a friend who knows about this stuff but not about too much problems with it said that he could be my dark side, so I ... kinda chased him away ... I regret being mean to him but I just don't know. So after 1 month and 1-2 weeks(Now) I still got nothing from my sub-concious, if it can hear me it's either ignoring me or idk. XD

And how could I grant anyone powers? I only saw Yranul once and never again, I even got a normal eevee behind me once I called him and it said "Don't call Yranul so much!" next try flooding the kitchen with kittens which turned into a non-lucid dream. Ok I'm rambling on here about random stuff. Sorry about that. Anyways I am thinking of trying to lucid tonight...see what happens, I'm hoping that something good happens but ... honestly all the stuff before just gave me kind of a fear of luciding (I feelt Wild sensations every now and then when I quited but each time I would panic and shake it off).

**Avalanche** · 09-30-2011 08:58 PM

My advice would be to conquer the fear. The challenge you are faced with is being lucid and enjoying it. Lucidity is not a trial or some kind test, but your subconscious either seems to think it is or wants you to do something for it.

You can either do nothing and continue with dreaming as it is, or try to do something. Your task is unclear it seems, but with some investigation you may find the first step.

Let's hope it's not the penrose steps that follow from the first.