Thread: LD Reading Group [Download links to ALOT of books]

Deleted by Mr Sandman

Originally Posted by Mr Sandman

I just think it's cruel to steal from people who have done hard work. I apologize if in your mind I appear to have an attitude about it, I just dont like injustice in the world. Yeah maybe some forms of piracy "spread the word" but at the same time what's the point in telling friends and family about something if they then just go and download it for free too? It just seems most people have double standards, it's ok to steal things from others if it makes your life easier, but it someone did it to you you'd hate it.

I'm leaving this discussion and dreamviews now, but here's a thought, if you or anyone else are so convinced that this kind of thing is okay then why not email the authors of those books and ask if they like it that their books are being distributed this way. If they reply saying it's okay, I'll eat my words and accept that I was wrong. I just get the feeling that they may not be very happy with it, after all it must have taken a lot of time and effort to produce those books and I expect if they wanted to give them away for free they would have done. Other peoples time and work is just as valuable as your own.

Email the authors see what they think, then lets have the conversation after that.

This whole thing is getting blown out of proportion. Sandman, no body is stealing anything. These authors, I'm sure have made a great deal of money off of these books anyway, and not only that, they wrote these books to help others not to gain a profit. If it is illegal to read a book on the internet because we didn't pay for it, then it is illegal for me to quote you right now because those are your words and I haven't had permission to use them. So call the police have me arrested for this so called "theft."

Deleted by Mr Sandman

You are being very rude to people just because of your opinion about these books. Instead of being a party pooper, why not just appreciate the fact that people are willing to indulge so much into the topic of lucid dreaming. It seems your only argument is about how the authors aren't getting paid for everyone to read the inspirational and educational books. Also, yes it was poorly thought out. I don't need to put my entire mind, heart, and soul into arguing about copyright issues, if you are that upset about it, email the authors yourself, or become a lawyer that specifically deals with copyright infringement and just leave these innocent people alone and let them read the books.

Sorry y'all. I agree with sandman. Thanks for the links sandman. I don't torrent or anything though. Mostly out of respect for the people that make them though. I just wish you could buy everything online and just download it from the maker.

Morality let's talk about it... Each time you buy a new shirt or a perhaps a video game you are according to some moral philosophy theories responsible for the death of starving children in africa, refusing to give people medicine because the cost of a video game can save lots of life life.

Responsible because of the fact that if you CAN do something but don't do it, then you are just as guilty. - According to Singer.

Peter Singer the author of the book "Practical Ethics" was the one that really tried to make people aware of this.

Here is a video of how you can save a life in 3 minutes: The Life You Can Save in 3 minutes by Peter Singer - YouTube

I am not saying that Peter Singer is perfect or that I am perfect, nor that you are evil, or that this theory doesn't have complications etc.

I just want to point out that this debate of downloading is sometimes a joke compared to the world's real morality problems.

But this is another discussion, but this is just to make clear that even if this was illegal to download it would be far from a big problem of morality, and perhaps not even a morality problem at al. Although according to gab's research it seems like it in this case it's not even a juridical problem.
So what is there to fight about?

And also thank you MaxMeents for doing all this work! (We should even pay you for that effort ^-^) I got about five of the books in the list myself, so in the hypothetical world where this would be immoral and illegal I can clear my conscience.

Originally Posted by MaxMeents

Mr. Sandman - I don't know about you, but if I like a book I tell my friends about it and most of them do the same. Also, I don't have a lot of money and certainly not enough to explore as many different reading materials as I do thanks to the internet. When money isn't a problem you see me buying things I like for other people in the hopes they will like it to. Everyone does. To be honest though, you have an attitude that your right and no matter what, that type of thinking (in my own life and from circumstances that I have observed) will hinder you and happiness.

Glad to see this post is creating fruit

Heyyo. Thanks for the reading list. I am not really against people taking stuff off the internet. Just me. Haha. But I also don't have money to buy that much stuff either, but you can go to a place like borders or Barnes and Nobles and just read while in there. Or stop at your library. If you like the book then buy it. My Barnes and Nobles pretty much has the rule of you have to buy coffee to stay though.

I've deleted my other posts because I had no intention to offend people.

All I want to say is try and support the authors, that's all.

That way they'll write more in the future.

So I'll post the list to the place where you can actually buy these books.
So if you do decide you are morally ok downloading and reading them for free,
then when you can afford them buy them yeah?
It is the nice and fair thing to do.


Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self: Robert Waggoner: 9781930491144: Amazon.com: Books
Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming: Stephen LaBerge, Howard Rheingold: 9780345374103: Amazon.com: Books
Adventures Beyond the Body: How to Experience Out-of-Body Travel: William Buhlman: 9780062513717: Amazon.com: Books
Astral Dynamics: The Complete Book of Out-of-Body Experiences: Robert Bruce: 9781571746160: Amazon.com: Books
Advanced Lucid Dreaming: The Power of Supplements: Thomas Yuschak: 9781430305422: Amazon.com: Books
DMT: The Spirit Molecule: A Doctor's Revolutionary Research into the Biology of Near-Death and Mystical Experiences: Rick Strassman: 9780892819270: Amazon.com: Books
Journeys Out of the Body: Robert Monroe: 9780385008617: Amazon.com: Books
The Art of Dreaming: Carlos Castaneda: 9780060925543: Amazon.com: Books
Amazon.com: Lucid Dreams in 30 Days, Second Edition: The Creative Sleep Program (9780312199883): Keith Harary, Pamela Weintraub: Books
The Way of the Shaman: Michael Harner: 9780062503732: Amazon.com: Books
The Astonishing Power of Emotions: Let Your Feelings Be Your Guide: Esther Hicks, Jerry Hicks: 9781401912468: Amazon.com: Books
Autobiography of a Yogi (Reprint of the Philosophical library 1946 First Edition): Paramhansa Yogananda: 9781565892125: Amazon.com: Books

I have to admit though, it feels much more different to actually have the books in your hands.

Originally Posted by Mr Sandman

Sorry Gab I don't agree with most of your arguments. Most of these books have an e-book option available, so if you prefer the convenience of e-books then buy the e-book don't steal it!!!

If you want the "library experience" then go to Amazon or another book store and browse the "look inside" options or better still pay to borrow the books and support the author that way. I don't know many library's where you get to keep the book.

Just because book is for sale on amazon, if the author made the e-version available as free download, how is it immoral for me to download it?

And if legit company as Google puts the books up on their Google Books thing for everybody to read, how is it immoral for me to read it?

I do support the authors. I have more than 5 LDing books, some of them are not on the list. I bought them all, and I will be bying more. But if I find a free e-version put up by the author, am I suppose to decline the offer because I have the option to buy it instead?

I'm pleased to see so much discussion on this topic. It's good to see.

Thank you, Mr Sandman, for doing your best not to offend. It's clear you are passionate about artists and their material rights.

I do want to remind everyone that just because something is available to freely download on the internet does not mean it has been stolen or the author has not authorized it. There are many legitimate instances of authors and other types of artists allowing their material to be publicly shared.

To everyone: When you see a situation like this, instead of berating the people interested in the material contact an administrator of DreamViews or the website that is hosting the material you feel is in question. If the site is questionable we can always remove the link. If the owner of the other website admits to not having rights to the material it is their obligation to remove it or face legal action. You can always contact the original copyright owner and let them deal with the site as necessary.

I'm pleased to see so many people care both about lucid dreaming and the rights of content creators.

That's really great MaxMeents! Thanks for the links! I've been intending to find some lucid dreaming books from the library but you've done it for us. I've downloaded the first book and I'm excited about reading it. Speaking of morals, I'll make sure to delete the pdf once I'm done reading it. >.<

I feel I might do something like you in the future, get a year off for myself and slow down my pace to learn about things that can't be learnt if you're always in a rush.

Edit: I spotted a really great paragraph in "Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self". The author said:

"All dreamers can see how unreliable the senses behave in telling us the difference between waking and dreaming. In almost every dream, the senses don't inform us of the difference between waking and dreaming; rather, they seem to confirm that whatever reality seems to be happening is indeed happening. Dreaming seems real, our senses tell us. Waking seems real, our senses tell us. To sense the reality of our situation requires a new perspective. The lesson:

Only by increasing our conscious awareness in the dream state can we ever realise the nature of the reality we experience.

So, the senses pose a problem. They tell us we exist, but they don't indicate the state of our existence: Are we awake, dreaming, or lucid dreaming? Since the senses don't remind us we're lucid and in a dream, holding onto conscious awareness in the dream state requires considerable training in greater mindfulness." (This is at the end of page 21/307)

What he state was a common problem we all faced but we probably didn't bother to delve deeper into it. I find the bold part hilarious. We think our senses are real but how many times has it actually fooled us, both in the dream world and reality?

Morpheus said it best though.

Morpheus: "What is real, how do you define real? If real is what you can feel, smell, taste and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain."

This is a paradox because the brain itself is observered with our senses! And just think about what would happen if you were plugged into an advanced videogame like the matrix and would look inside a person's head, what would you see? Exactly, you would see a brain.

This really interested me and so did patterns, how is it that everything in nature follow the same pattern both when it comes to the structure of things but also conceptis in themself: Spirit Science 21 ~ Toroidal Flow - YouTube

So in a sense if you can understand the small things you can understand the bigger things. The problem is though we can't even understand the absolute smallest things, why? Well if Universe is infinite it shouldn't have a start either right? Well then it should be infinite inwards as well.

Ok I'm rambling now... xD But I hope that this post made you think, because it's when you think that you know that you are!

Originally Posted by MasterMind

Morpheus said it best though.
Morpheus: "What is real, how do you define real? If real is what you can feel, smell, taste and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain."

I found this video one of the best ways to make people grasp that concept, that so many times is expressed in several lucid dreaming books:



Watch part 2 aswell. Although the other parts lack some sense and coherence, thee first 2 totally relate to the subject.