Thread: How to turn Sleep Paralysis into a Lucid Dream?

Originally Posted by BatteryCharged

I wonder if people are talking about something different, because I see no reason why someone would find being unable to move your body as amusing.

We are definitely talking about the same thing. Some people may have a SP experience only once or twice, but for those of us who get it somewhat regularly (for me it's maybe once a month) you sort of have to learn how to deal with it (without losing your shit) and its not unreasonable to want to be able to try and use it for something good for a change since its happening without your control anyways. Just FYI, SP most often occurs when you are sleeping on your back (something I try not to do ever) so a good way to lessen the frequency of having SP is not to sleep on your back if you can help it.

Originally Posted by Maxis

Wait, isn't it possible for SP to occur as you're entering REM as well? I know it's not common, but it's definitely happened to me before (not just HH--you know, actual SP).

I think you might be confusing sleep paralysis with REM atonia. When you are entering REM your body becomes paralyzed due to low muscle tone, which is REM atonia. Sleep paralysis is, by definition, a sleep disorder or malfunction of the neuronal system in charge of turning REM off in the skeletal muscles and restoring muscle tone. It's possible to have SP as you are entering a REM state, but this would only occur if you had been prematurely awakened from a REM period already, and were just re-entering REM.

Originally Posted by Maxis

If you aren't scared of SP, then the experience itself won't be scary. And of course, usually people like these are the ones more intrigued by SP than worried about it.

While this is great advice in theory to give anyone afraid of SP...this is only true to a certain extent. Sleep paralysis directly acts on certain parts of the brain that are hardwired for fear, if I remember correctly it has to do with the amygdala. This is the reason someone might experience SP regularly, know exactly what it is while its occurring, and still have uncontrollable and irrational fear no matter how hard they try to think through it. I'm only adding this because I don't want people to feel ashamed that they are afraid during SP (it's natural), and I want others to realize that when we tell them they don't need to be afraid...we are certainly still acknowledging that it can be a terrifying experience when it first starts happening. But that the best way we who experience it rather often have found to deal with the situation is NOT to read stories about other people talking about frightening things that happens to them in SP. Others people's fears have a tendency to manifest inside our own dreams because we start thinking about what that person said while the SP is occurring, and whatever you think during SP you can manifest. This includes wonderful things. It's just that most people default to fearful things.

Originally Posted by nina

I think you might be confusing sleep paralysis with REM atonia. When you are entering REM your body becomes paralyzed due to low muscle tone, which is REM atonia. Sleep paralysis is, by definition, a sleep disorder or malfunction of the neuronal system in charge of turning REM off in the skeletal muscles and restoring muscle tone. It's possible to have SP as you are entering a REM state, but this would only occur if you had been prematurely awakened from a REM period already, and were just re-entering REM.

ohhh.

Well, honestly I still believe that what I've been experiencing is still sleep paralysis. It would make sense, because it only happens, and slightly uncommonly, whenever I'm WILDing (or I just unexpectedly woke up at 4am one morning).

I've had problems with sleep disorders all my life (the perfect mix with lucid dreaming, of course), so I wouldn't be surprised. It's only that the experiences are always extremely powerful and often frightening, and much like the SP I've gotten while waking up.

I didn't know SP while falling asleep is so situational, though, so thank you for clearing that up. I should clarify that I try to be accurate with my facts, and I know the difference between the big things such as HH vs. SP, but I still know very little about the science of SP. If I get something wrong, clarifications are welcomed.

Originally Posted by nina

While this is great advice in theory to give anyone afraid of SP...this is only true to a certain extent. Sleep paralysis directly acts on certain parts of the brain that are hardwired for fear, if I remember correctly it has to do with the amygdala. This is the reason someone might experience SP regularly, know exactly what it is while its occurring, and still have uncontrollable and irrational fear no matter how hard they try to think through it. I'm only adding this because I don't want people to feel ashamed that they are afraid during SP (it's natural), and I want others to realize that when we tell them they don't need to be afraid...we are certainly still acknowledging that it can be a terrifying experience when it first starts happening. But that the best way we who experience it rather often have found to deal with the situation is NOT to read stories about other people talking about frightening things that happens to them in SP. Others people's fears have a tendency to manifest inside our own dreams because we start thinking about what that person said while the SP is occurring, and whatever you think during SP you can manifest. This includes wonderful things. It's just that most people default to fearful things.

Ohh, of course!

I don't mean to invalidate the emotions or experiences of anyone who's had bad SP experiences (hey, I know I have), so I apologize if my previous statement came off that way. Not being scared of sleep paralysis is easier said than done, and the closest you could probably get to fearlessness is through ignoring the hallucinations or feelings altogether. I think what I meant by my own advice is not to be unafraid, but to have better and happier expectations about SP, which should result in better and happier manifestations (like I said, easier said than done, but possible). I do agree with you as well, that reading about other's SP experiences will affect your own, so avoiding reading about scary SP experiences would help your own experiences as you won't think about those during SP.

Although now I'm wondering about something (oops, sorry for this going off-topic): would only reading about good SP experiences and having a good feeling about SP altogether, and thinking about these during SP, result in consistent good SP experiences?

Originally Posted by Maxis

Well, honestly I still believe that what I've been experiencing is still sleep paralysis. It would make sense, because it only happens, and slightly uncommonly, whenever I'm WILDing (or I just unexpectedly woke up at 4am one morning).

I've had problems with sleep disorders all my life (the perfect mix with lucid dreaming, of course), so I wouldn't be surprised. It's only that the experiences are always extremely powerful and often frightening, and much like the SP I've gotten while waking up.

I didn't know SP while falling asleep is so situational, though, so thank you for clearing that up.

Well perhaps it's not as black & white as I made it seem. Of course everyone is going to be a bit different and this is one reason neuroscience and sleep science still has soooo many unknowns and inconsistencies because when it comes to sleep each person has their own idiosyncrasies and experiences that its more difficult to define the norm.

But here's the thing, and I will try to be as clear as I can but please tell me if this is confusing because I know it took me awhile to fully grasp...basically when you dream you enter REM atonia. REM atonia is a state of very low muscle tension or paralysis of skeletal muscles (besides those in the eyes and chest so you can move your eyeballs around and continue to breathe). During a WILD you are conscious of this transition. Sleep paralysis is quite simply...being stuck in REM atonia in a non-dream state. This happens if there is a miscommunication between the neurons responsible for putting your body into REM atonia and those responsible for bringing it back out and restoring muscle tone so that you can move again (also known as REM-on cells and REM-off cells). There are many speculations as to how and why this might happen in some people...stress, vitamin deficiency, etc. but the term sleep paralysis has come to be used to define the specific disorder in people who experience this condition.

However there is one easy way to find out if you were experiencing true sleep paralysis during your WILD (and I don't mean a WILD that might happen mid-night or part way into a REM cycle b/c it can be argued those may be better classified as DEILD or something else, but only one that would occur from a completely waking state with the full intention to WILD). And here's the question...when this experience that felt like SP was happening, did you try to move your body at all and found that you were unable or did you have to try and force yourself out of it? If not, then it was just REM atonia. This is because sleep paralysis by definition involves literally being stuck in that paralytic state against your will. The fear and hallucinations and vibrations and loud noises etc. are not sleep paralysis, but merely symptoms of it that often coexist along with it (this is another reason why fear is such an underlying component of sleep paralysis because you are literally being held against your will). When I WILD I get the full on vibrations and rushing feelings and sounds, but I've always maintained the ability to move if it was my desire to do so. I also think it's very possible that if you did have a real SP experience while trying to induce a WILD, you might have actually drifted in and out of consciousness without even realizing it and the SP could be a result of that. Things get more muddy and less easy to define during WILDs because the level of consciousness needs to be low enough to enter a dream yet still present to maintain lucidity and a lot of weird things can happen at that point.

*I should also make it clear that I'm using the most updated and scientifically accepted definition of the term sleep paralysis, and you will see many people use REM atonia and SP interchangeably and incorrectly which only makes an already confusing concept that much more difficult to understand.

Originally Posted by Maxis

I don't mean to invalidate the emotions or experiences of anyone who's had bad SP experiences (hey, I know I have), so I apologize if my previous statement came off that way.

Not at all, I didn't mean to imply that it had. That part of my response was more so for anyone reading the thread and in no way directed at any one person in particular.

Originally Posted by Maxis

Although now I'm wondering about something (oops, sorry for this going off-topic): would only reading about good SP experiences and having a good feeling about SP altogether, and thinking about these during SP, result in consistent good SP experiences?

I definitely think it would help (and it certainly couldn't hurt), especially for someone who has it somewhat frequently. I've had a lot of SP experiences though and I can honestly say that while I've been able to transform some of them into something fun, funny, or sexual (which makes it more tolerable) or even into a lucid dream...they've still never been consistently good. But it's a great question you raise that I think warrants some serious research studies.