Thread: How present are you in an LD?

Haha, it is interesting... most of them seem like if you stopped right now and realized that the whole world around you is a dream. Since it is still a dream memory though, if you don't have good recall it can just disappear. The first few are not like this because the strong emotions (strong emotions are connected with better memory). I don't really have strong emotions in dreams like I used to because I am more comfortable in dreams, but I also have awesome recall!

I THINK I get what you're asking there Delta.

And yes, I do slip into day dreams reliving good lucid dreams. I look back at them with as much recall as most waking life adventures of a few years ago and on.

The difference is, when I look back over my dream journal, I can remember them in crystal clarity. I can't do that with my waking life adventures because I didn't journal them.

The only reason I've stuck with it for as long as I have is because of the emotions I felt during the first time realizing I was dreaming and how cool that was... it was pure excitement and joy. i shouldn't say it's the only reason actually as I really do enjoy waking up and recording all of these random dreams I have and even going through uncomfortable dreams and nightmares. They make me laugh a lot... they invokeemotion and good vibes. I definitely do sit back and remember my dreams and things trigger these memories all the time now because I have so many damn dreams and remember almost all of them (because of dream journal). I really enjoy that my mind can come up with such random things and every now and then I might get lucky and become Lucid in some of the dreams.

@Sensei – Yep, you said it, DR is as important as recall in general… So your recall is really good, tell me when you look back on a particular LD experience, is it the same as a memory in general? I’m not even sure I know what I’m getting at but hopefully through all this something could be learned!

@RebelSeven – First, abso-frickin-loutely! If you have a great LD, no matter what you did, why not look back fondly!? And yep, makes sense… Writing them helps all the better, but I guess I’m just curious about the there there? As in when you’re there, is it the same awareness as when you’re here reading and writing?

@robertcox88 – Yeah, I can imagine that being something that sticks with you. And it’s cool you have such great recall and that even if you don’t LD all the time you’re still learning about yourself.

It's just crazy that I knew I was LDing and couldn't really control it. I guess I went for the gold too quickly as opposed to simply starting small. If and hopefully when they become more regular I'll be able to hone my skills better.

This gets me wondering: can you remember dreams better in dreams?

Assuming I understood the OP question correctly: As far as I can tell, my LDs are indeed like waking-life memories. I remember being “there” and aware during the dream; after I wake up, I look back on it just like I would look back on something that happened in real life yesterday. For me, they're also usually much easier to remember than non-lucid dreams, about as easy as an actual waking-life memory, whether there was much emotion involved or not. (But I still like to write everything down ASAP—even waking-life memories are easy to forget if you think about it!)

This for me is what is so cool. Absolutely I re-live or re-play my lucid dreams in my mind, just like I recall my real Disney vacation. A couple days ago I dreamed a dragon landed on my car and stuck his head in my window, and I started slapping him on the snout. As far as I can tell both that and my last real vacation seem recalled and as real, in the say way. After all, I "saw" and experienced them both in real time when they occurred.

I am more aware when Lding than in RL. My consciousness is spread throughout the dream, a complete sense of oneness with everything. Over the years of Lding I have come to consider waking life the real dream.

@RebelSeven – First, abso-frickin-loutely! If you have a great LD, no matter what you did, why not look back fondly!? And yep, makes sense… Writing them helps all the better, but I guess I’m just curious about the there there? As in when you’re there, is it the same awareness as when you’re here reading and writing?

Haha the "there-there" is a good term, I like it. And yes, in a good lucid the "there" is total...complete... The connection to the present in a lucid often supersedes the waking life experience. Like Aneas describes.

Great stuff guys! @sphagetti – Who knows, would be a great test though.

@Travis – Yep, that’s what I was wondering about and sounds like you’ve been pretty successful with that, if it’s a matter of that. Hope I’ll be able to relate.

@Rothgar – That’s what I was thinking about, that the memories are the same as waking memories. I was also thinking though, and I’m sure it’s different for every LDer, that what is that present like. The LD environment can be so different from waking reality, and if you’re really doing something unbelievable, or know that you couldn’t do in real life, like what is that present feeling?

I’m a Trek fan, so if I wanted to be on board the Enterprise E, how would that feel? Again I’m probably asking something very relative but I use that as an example.

@Aneas – I imagine that took you sometime to master but I’ve felt that in dreams before… Where I’m involved but also overlooking.

Originally Posted by RebelSeven

Haha the "there-there" is a good term, I like it. And yes, in a good lucid the "there" is total...complete... The connection to the present in a lucid often supersedes the waking life experience. Like Aneas describes.

I think I'm ripping off a former President with that one but hey, if it works it works!:} And hope so! With the Trek example if I wanted to be on board the Enterprise or Voyager during an episode or just to explore I wonder how present it would be.

So I am back from a hiatus, I forced myself to stop dreaming because this world and that one started to blur, so I would say yes, in my experience dreams are as vivid as right now if not more.

Sometimes that's actually a RC for me as well.

I can still remember a couple very old dreams from when I was eight or nine that play back just the same as memory from the waking.

Yes, the dream "present" can be very different. For example sometimes it is like being somewhat drunk, where you react more than think things through. I have done things in a dream I would not do, for moral or other reasons, awake, and thought nothing of it. Also for me I experience scene changes...I will decide to walk, and suddenly I am there or somewhere else even. That said, I still experience it in the present and afterwards recall it as a real memory. I have walked on streets or in towns that can't exist in real life, and feel privileged to have been there, similar to real places I have been.

Originally Posted by DeltaDreamer

...With the Trek example if I wanted to be on board the Enterprise or Voyager during an episode or just to explore I wonder how present it would be.

I have actually been lucky enough to have a vivid lucid dream of being on Voyager it was short because it came in a series of false awakenings, but intense!

I woke up in the sickbay in the middle of an emergency it was crowded with injured crewmen, I got to speak with Bellona Torres and Janeway, coolest thing though was seeing the doctor turn on!

Yeah, interesting stuff all… You guys have certainly confirmed what I thought, and could more or less relate too myself. I of course have dreams I remember from the past, even the occasional one when I’ve been lucid. Like I said, I think, I was more or less lucid in a recent dream, in that I knew I was dreaming but couldn’t control anything.

It was in a condo in FL and I can almost picture the kitchen and people. I can also picture actual memories of my time there as well. Sadly I wasn’t able to bring fourth who \ what I wanted too, but that’s another issue!

So now I will say as I’ve gone through this with everyone’s help, that I wonder what it’ll be like to look back on a LD where I’m able to have full control and time on my side as well. Going back in time, flying, battling Borg on the Enteprrise, and yeah, probably a few sensual related LD’s later, I’ll probably be as floored as many of you have been.

@RebelSeven – Ummm, awesome much!? That’s my way of saying that’s awesome! My mind went right to Caretaker but of course there are more examples. Shame it didn’t last but you could go back again for sure! What else do you remember? Janeway’s hair by any chance, as that’s a good indication of what season you might have been in.

(Sorry to geek out guys but I’m guessing there’s a good chance of having more Trek fans here then on the Patriots ball-gate forums!)

I hope you stick to it and earn those lucids. I truly believe this is the most rewarding and brilliant skill anyone could develop in their lives. (I'm sure every enthusiast thinks that of their art XD)

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I got later seasoned Janeway The doctor was his more developed self as well. Caretaker was a great guess though! haha, but I don't think it was a specific episode I found myself in. Bellona spoke to me as if I worked in engineering, which was fantastic. I walked around grinning in the middle of a disaster. Was very fun!

EDIT: I have also met Janeway in her bun, but she was mostly out of character, I was lucid and looking to find my DG and she was trying to convince me not to. Almost gave up....it's hard to deny a direct order from the captain!

I've always felt like memory has at least two different "tracks," one for waking life and one for dreams, but that we lessen the distinction between the two when we practice active dream recall. I would love to see brain imaging research exploring issues about different kinds of memories and how they are stored.

When lucid dreaming, I feel like I'm utilizing both memory tracks at once, and of course I make a deliberate attempt to be alert in my LDs and take note of the details, so lucid dreams are inherently more memorable than NLDs, but I still need to write them down promptly if those memories are to remain clear and lasting.

The oddest thing is the little flashes of dream memory I get at random moments. Often these are scenes that are from dreams I had many years ago, decades sometimes, long before I started writing them down or inducing deliberate LDs. Because I have no written record of them I can't even guess how long ago they happened, only I know with perfect certainty that they are from dreams. The dreams themselves don't even seem that memorable: I don't remember plotlines or people, only the sensation of being in these distinctive dream places, most of which have no clear correlation with any places I've known in RL.

@RebelSeven – Well so far so good… See I’m the magical pill type, if you haven’t been able to tell from my supplement posts. I’d far prefer a pill to take and boom, lucid, then the work. With that said, I imagine many of us are the pill type but alas, logic that does not make. SO, I push myself to learn the ropes, methods, and techniques on how to LD, while putting research into devices as well as supps. So far ‘eh’ good, but I’m not done yet!

With that said, again, friggin cool man! Yeah that pic looks season four ish, and interesting that the Captain was trying to talk to you about NOT finding your DG. Was she in uniform at least? And for sure, she’d have you in the brig for at least a fortnight!

@Verre – Oh yeah, I wonder if there have been studies related to that, real VS dream memories. And see for now I can’t relate, as my NLD’s are all I have and I’m getting better at remembering them. Interesting thought that you have flashes so many years after the fact, indicating that indeed they’re with you for life practically! But yeah, if you were on say, Voyager’s bridge (a nod to RS), you know that had to have been in a dream LD or not. But interesting just the same.


So until I become more proficient at LDing I won’t have much to relate too or go on to those that can obviously, in context to this topic. I still remember the recent short LD like a NLD, but like I said couldn’t beam in who I wanted to beam in:{ With time obviously and maybe even tonight as it’s Dream Leaf time again!

Originally Posted by DeltaDreamer

… See I’m the magical pill type, if you haven’t been able to tell from my supplement posts. I’d far prefer a pill to take and boom, lucid, then the work. With that said, I imagine many of us are the pill type but alas, logic that does not make. SO, I push myself to learn the ropes, methods, and techniques on how to LD

I understand the desire for the quick result Though I believe lucidity is only really graspable when the long road is taken. I've only started experimenting with supps this last week (literally! One trial with Melatonin!) and I have been studying lucidity now for almost 7 years. Now that I'm dipping my toes into supps I have a whole avenue of lucidity I've never delved into (guess I'll be looking up your supp posts!)

Originally Posted by DeltaDreamer

interesting that the Captain was trying to talk to you about NOT finding your DG. Was she in uniform at least? And for sure, she’d have you in the brig for at least a fortnight!

Full uniform This dream was particularly vivid. I saw her in full detail. I even remember what she smelled like. This is the biggest chunk of dialogue I journaled after waking:

Originally Posted by The Book of Shadows

"You are not ready to meet your guide, there is too much going on, you can't handle it." I notice fear in her voice though.
"You can't stop me can you?" I ask, already knowing that she can't.
"Listen to me," she begins again, desperately trying to dissuade me "your guide can't help you now, she is protecting you in ways you can't even imagine, if you go to her now, you will only distract her." She injected passion into every word she spoke.
"So, it is a she?" I ask, Janeway drops her head into her hands dejectedly and complains again that I am not listening to her

there was much drama and mystery in contacting my DG still mostly unanswered questions. Interestingly I also ran into Samantha from StarGate SG1 on the path of my search. Two strong, independent, scientific females from science fiction. Not sure what that says about me yet

Originally Posted by DeltaDreamer

(a nod to RS)

So just imagine, full lucid control is like instantaneously creating, editing, and experiencing your own holodeck program.
And lastly, for your amusement:






Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own

Yep, like anything worth trying and all that. And funny that since I’ve been reading about supps for LDing that melatonin is always mentioned… I’ve been taking that for years to just help me sleep in general, as again, my sleeping habits suck all around. Half the time I think it’s just a placebo anyway! And sure, anyway I can help I’m here but sadly I have yet to have much success with any LD supplements.

I’ve tried the Galntamine and Dream Leaf so far, not much luck with the former and so far no good with the latter. I may have tried something else but can’t really remember. Did the vitamin B6 route but got nervous reading about all the issues it can bring.

So, how frickin awesome was your dream!? That’s really cool Rebel, and great that it was really vivid and you were able to remember so much. I was smiling as I read the dialogue hearing her voice in my head. Sooooo hope I can relate to that soon!

And yeah, very interesting about Sam from SG1 and Janeway. Of course it could mean anything and there’s certainly enough positive in that as it is. And yep again, that’s how I always try to explain it to people, that it’s essentially a holodeck in your own mind, where the safety protocols go offline for the story’s sake.

Lastly, lol, now if I do have a Borg dream, LD or NLD, I’ll know who to thank!:}

As present as right now. Especially when I first realized it. Even more so then than right now. And to answer your questions... yes and yes.

My most recent lucid literally felt like a massive release of endorphins after the deja vu of the situation I was in caused me to check how many fingers I had. I counted eight and everything suddenly became so crystal clear and totally surreal.

The more I do daytime awareness/paying attention/mindfulness, and continue to work on dream recall, the more "present" I become in all of my dreams. I think the "present" feeling is actually a function of memory, since I have a theory that all dreams are experienced quite vividly and with "presence," but this feeling fades as the memory fades. I believe this "presence" is a requirement for (and may be a form of) lucidity. So pay attention to life during the waking state (with the idea/goal of recognizing the dream state), and work hard on dream recall, and your presence will increase in all dreams and your dreams will become more vivid across the board.

@Sheddler - And I imagine that was an awesome experience, when everything crystallized!

@FryingMan - Yeah, absolutely something I need to get on the ball with. I've been wanting to try more meditating and or yoga but hate being the only guy in class! (To me, even if some are hot, it's just sooooo awkward!) But yes, excellent point. At the time when we're in the dreams, they may feel as real and present as the hear and now in the WW. However as we forget them so quickly when we wake it all fades away. The same for a long term memory. Go back to your first day in school, if you even can. How present so to say are in that memory as it's now years in the past!?

Strive to experience all conscious moments to the fullest: waking & dreaming, and both experiences will become more and more awesome .