Thread: Isn't lucid dreaming meddling with affairs that shouldn't be meddled with?

Hello, I've been thinking about one thing recently...
I know natural lucid dreamers exist but I still can't stop doubting if lucid dreaming really is natural... I'm talking about intentional lucid dreaming now, not when it sometimes happens without us trying. Mindfulness and meditation as well - were humans really meant to explore their unconsciousness? I wonder if all-day awareness can't harm you in some way in the long run? After all, aren't our minds created so we can daydream and wander in our thoughts? Is it really that bad to be lost in our thoughts? Always being present in the moment sound quite scary to me for some reason.

Anyway, I'd just like to know what others think of this... I'm interested in lucid dreaming but I'm a bit afraid of it to be honest... Connecting with our inner-self and similar ideas... Isn't that unnatural and forced?

Thank you for any answers! And I wasn't sure to which section should I post this so I'm sorry if this is a wrong one

Hi!
No need to be scared, as far as I see it lucid dreaming isn't really meddling too much. After all, we all have the ability, and as you said some people are naturals, so it doesn't seem to me like its anything crazy artificial or something like that. I can understand being a bit scared of 'connecting with the inner self' and such, but if you aren't ready/don't want to go down that path lucid dreaming can still be used for all sorts of more 'mundane' pleasures, like riding a dragon throwing lightning bolts to save the princess, flying through space etc. You can always stick to cool adventures. I hope you continue to investigate lucid dreaming and above all have fun with it .

nah lucid dreams are natural

Many lucid dreamers are like me. They had one or two lucid experiences naturally at one time, and later learned what it was called. Then, through some simple techniques have learned to increase the frequency. For example after 4 years of intentional pursuit I have had over 300 LDs vs maybe 3 total before. But I still have way more normal dreams. I think your brain adjusts to what it needs. If you are overly tired forget about lucid dreaming...won't happen. If i am stressed with work on the brain, no LDs. Only when relaxed and rested does it happen. It is certainly natural, and unless you use drugs to help (which I dont) the techniques are simple and non invasive. Once you've had a few you understand the state and find it perfectly "normal", although somewhat incredible.

Thank you for your responses
However, if you do some "technique" that requires you to practise it during the whole day (for example RCs), then your mind must be constantly occupied with it, right? You spend most of your waking moments thinking about lucid dreaming... doesn't this get in way of your life? I understand that if you had chosen to take up lucid dreaming, then you must put some effort into it, of course, but does this get easier with time? Like you don't have to think about it that much and it still happens? I'm sorry if my questions are stupid, I just find it quite weird to think about it so much... after doing RCs and trying to be self-aware every day for a while I started to feel a bit strange about it

Originally Posted by Chiboab

Thank you for your responses
However, if you do some "technique" that requires you to practise it during the whole day (for example RCs), then your mind must be constantly occupied with it, right? You spend most of your waking moments thinking about lucid dreaming... doesn't this get in way of your life? I understand that if you had chosen to take up lucid dreaming, then you must put some effort into it, of course, but does this get easier with time? Like you don't have to think about it that much and it still happens? I'm sorry if my questions are stupid, I just find it quite weird to think about it so much... after doing RCs and trying to be self-aware every day for a while I started to feel a bit strange about it

I think that lucid dreaming practice shouldn't need to demand your constant effort - instead, it should be about simply developing a natural mindset.
I usually compare it to learning how to walk - when you first learned how to walk it required your constant attention, and you had to be very focused to do it, but eventually you learned how to do it without thinking about it.
I think lucid dreaming should be approached the same way;
for example, Lucid Living should become such a habit that you just happen to be "lucid" in waking life without "trying" to be it.

One of the most important realizations a lucid dreamer can have is that you could possibly be dreaming even when you "know" that you are awake.
This has happened to me many times - I will be like "yeah, I am obviously awake right now", and then I will wake up one minute later, and that's always a very fascinating experience.

You don't have to do anything during the day to LD. That's because dreams you're trying to notice while they're happening only occur while you're sleeping.

Day work is done with the goal of changing one's habits during their dreams into one's that will allow them to become lucid during their dreams. The thing that changes one's habits is their intention to do so. One can create all of that same intention while they're falling asleep.

So, I think day work is over-rated in it's efficiency. I, for one, am not a natural and have done well in having lucid dreams without the help of day work.

Originally Posted by dolphin

You don't have to do anything during the day to LD. That's because dreams you're trying to notice while they're happening only occur while you're sleeping.

Day work is done with the goal of changing one's habits during their dreams into one's that will allow them to become lucid during their dreams. The thing that changes one's habits is their intention to do so. One can create all of that same intention while they're falling asleep.

So, I think day work is over-rated in it's efficiency. I, for one, am not a natural and have done well in having lucid dreams without the help of day work.

Not going to agree with you here, not in general. Some people I'm sure can get by without day work, but they probably have other features already that gives them an edge in getting lucid. As I recall, dolphin, you get a lot of false awakenings on a regular basis. I'm decent at getting lucid from FAs but I get them only once in a blue moon.

Sort of agree about the point of day-work. It's to change how you behave in general, both in the waking state and the dreaming state, to a way of existing that makes getting lucid in dreams possible, and eventually more and more probable. I don't think that all people can do that with bed-time intention alone.

The point of day work is to practice the "way of being" that we wish in dreams while we're awake. Want vividness, excellent recall, lucidity? Then pay attention to life when awake. The great thing about mindfulness is that it has benefits beyond LD practice.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

Want vividness, excellent recall, lucidity? Then pay attention to life when awake. The great thing about mindfulness is that it has benefits beyond LD practice.

It's very interesting to connect mindfulness with lucidity. So at this point are you aware of your surroundings during the whole day? Do you feel like you see things with a better... clarity? Or what exactly are the benefits? I'm just interested to know it from someone with a first-hand experience, I've read a lot about it but it's better to ask someone directly, isn't it.
I, however, have a terrible habit of daydreaming and spacing out all the time so I honestly cannot imagine being mindful... sounds impossible for me o.O That's why I asked if it's natural for humans to be mindful... because I've been like this since I was a child so it always felt "right" for me to daydream all the time, I guess... and now I suddenly discover it's better to be mindful hehe

I agree with dolphin. Other than journalling a dream or two every other day, and a very occasional RC when something weird happens (3-5 a day) I really don't do much (well I do read the forum daily for fun).

Well, let me add to what I said earlier which might explain the differences in viewpoint. After 6 years (yes just realized I have been at it longer than I thought) I think about lucid dreaming a lot...not because I work at it, but it has just been ingrained in me through the years. It is part of who I am now. So I can become lucid now without a lot of external effort. But if I see something weird I pretty quickly think to RC by nature. So at first I would say work at it and build in the disciplines...but after awhile it is more 2nd nature. Dolphin has has a lot of LDs... so much of his effort is just 2nd nature by now I suspect. With that, some fairly simple intent - setting at night is about all you need (although learning how to set intent is not simple...it is a balancing act between desire and will in my experience.)

As for connecting them, I think they're basically the same thing.

Whole day? Not by far. I have better days and worse days. It goes in bursts, but the longer I do it, the more frequent the recognition is of the zoned out / autopilot / daydreaming state.

I do however notice a very high correlation between longer sustained mindfulness (together with thinking about lucid dreaming) and LD hot streaks, as well as better dream recall and more vivd, "present" dreams.

The main benefit is actually living your life instead of having it pass by unaware. You can recognize unreasonable/unproductive emotional responses, and eliminate toxic interpersonal exchanges. A day spent mindfully "feels" longer. You're extending your life by being mindful! And you stop and smell the roses and enjoy beautiful scenery, situations, etc.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

I do however notice a very high correlation between longer sustained mindfulness (together with thinking about lucid dreaming) and LD hot streaks, as well as better dream recall and more vivd, "present" dreams.

Ohhh! Yesss! I made 3 times something like "super mindfulness". I know, that peoples here dont like it, and maybe it is not a good idea, but I made this "super mindfulness" with extreme effort (even straining or fight). I was giving all my power with an extreme hold on, to stay in mindfulness for 5-10 minutes. I cut my thoughts before they were born. Very hard work. I was getting in some psychodelic states. Changings in physical (i mean bodily sensations) and mental state, with some extatic laughter. All the 3 times I was having lucid dreams that night. I try it several times every week. Almost no chance to do it. It is magic, how the daydreaming wins the "fight".

Edit: It is easier to do it in closed eye meditations, but for me, only the open eye version has this effect.

Originally Posted by Gyalogos

Ohhh! Yesss! I made 3 times something like "super mindfulness". I know, that peoples here dont like it, and maybe it is not a good idea, but I made this "super mindfulness" with extreme effort (even straining or fight). I was giving all my power with an extreme hold on, to stay in mindfulness for 5-10 minutes. I cut my thoughts before they were born. Very hard work. I was getting in some psychodelic states. Changings in physical (i mean bodily sensations) and mental state, with some extatic laughter. All the 3 times I was having lucid dreams that night. I try it several times every week. Almost no chance to do it. It is magic, how the daydreaming wins the "fight".

Edit: It is easier to do it in closed eye meditations, but for me, only the open eye version has this effect.

O_O Physical and mental changes? Well, this is exactly why I was worried... why it sounds cool it's also really creepy at the same time Obviously, this isn't the "natural" (ok, I really don't like this word used here but I can't think of any better one) state of human mind... to be "super mindful"...

Hi!

Copy-paste from another thread:

What I was done three times, was an extreme thing (I mean, really hard focus), and I am not a fan of extreme stuff. I think "the slow (not too slow), but always growing" phylosophie is the best. My awareness rushes are like running up the stairs, with junping over the steps. I think it has a danger. I dont like the trainings what some of the modern athlets and bikers (ect.) are doing...for the gold. This mental jumpings remind me of the stori of Ikarus. But, it is a interesting thing, that it is posible, and how dramatic the effect is on the upcoming night. Of course, this super heightened awareness was soaked with the intention for LD.

You know, this bodily sensations and the clearness and the intensity and all this is....mega cool and the most healthy state. From my metaphysical perspective the all day daydreamers are mentally sick (yes, me to). They are dreaming. They are not here. Zombies. I think that all great things are coming from aware peple, or from a aware state of mind. I dont know, but I bet in one euro (symbolic amount), that in average the medium strong practitioners of lucid dreaming are mentally healthier than average peoples. Come on! Lucid dreaming dangerous? Mindfullness dangerous? Yeah, it is adventure, and you can find in yourself some trash, that you dont like, but this is the healthy way to become a healthier person.

Still don't quite get your fear of mindfulness and lucid dreaming Chiboab. Human awareness of self is what differentiates us from most other animals. Why not go even further? We are after all great explorers as well.....

Originally Posted by Goldenspark

Still don't quite get your fear of mindfulness and lucid dreaming Chiboab. Human awareness of self is what differentiates us from most other animals. Why not go even further? We are after all great explorers as well.....

Hmm... because I've read some stories how meditation went wrong. The people were so aware of everything that their mental state became really bad. And it does make sense, doesn't it? If you're always aware of everything then everything becomes so clear that it must be almost... annoying? I just know that when I started with mindfulness a few months ago for the first time I started to feel very strange after a few weeks. As I said, it felt annoying to me to always be aware of everything.... but I suppose everyone is different, so some people might enjoy mindfulness while other might not But I agree that self-awareness makes us different from other species and yes, it's good to be more in the present moment and pay attention to what you're doing... I'm just talking about extreme cases. Sorry if my posts aren't too clear, English isn't my first language so I sometimes struggle with finding the right words to express myself, haha....

Anyway, it seems to me that mindfulness and meditation are becoming very popular these days but everyone always talks about positive aspects but nobody looks at it from the other side. There are monks that committed suicide after meditating but nobody cares about that. And when I was reading about Vipassana meditation and how you should just observe and be passive about every thought and emotion... What the hell? Shouldn't life be about feeling every emotion fully instead? Sorry, I'm getting a bit off topic here probably, but it seems similar to mindfulness to me as with mindfulness you should always be aware of everything, notice every single little thing, all the emotions and thoughts...

But thanks to everyone who have answered, I really appreciate that! I thought nobody would care as I didn't find many threads here about negative side to this... surely, it's understandable that as someone who's new to this world I'd like to know all about it, even if there are some dangers.