My LD/Sticking point

**xxPhoebusxx** · 01-23-2016 02:43 AM

So I had a dream about a week ago that kinda turned me back to lucid dreaming. I think a majority of my dreams are a really low level lucid.

I basically woke up at the end of a rem cycle and pretended I was still asleep. So I went though sleep paralysis. I'm in my room and get out of bed (in the dream). I fully expect there to be a character in the hallway. It's been a recurring dream.

A couple of months ago there was routinely a women in the hallway. She would either look at me or be looking at me reflected in a mirror. Her face was haunting, even if I was partially lucid. She wasn't very nice. It would send chills down my spine even after I woke up.

This time it's a clown. He's wearing a hoody, that has clown like strips but he doesn't look overly clown like. His complexion is slightly darker that mine, and his jaw is thicker. But he reminds me of myself. He's mirroring me silently matching my intensity.

I say, " Your not real, I'm dreaming. Who are you? Why are you here?"
No answer, so I change the room. The dream characters start testing me, and I just remain clear.

Then there is this older women in black with grey sitting on couch. I tell her that I'm dreaming, and she says I'm not. So I said my name is Phoebus, said my address and that I was asleep in my bed. She listens and then after a minute 3 stormtroopers grab me. I realize that I was tricked. But I focus intently and the hands pass through me instead of being able to move me.

That's all I remember. What do people think it means? Why are my dream characters in general so uncooperative?

As for the first sticking point I want to focus on fixing. I'm naturally okay at waking up at the end of REM cycles. Over the last week of trying I think I average about 3-4 times a night. The problem is that I lay there and don't wanna wake myself up too much or I won't dream again right away But then I end up falling asleep again. Or if I'm successful at somewhat maintaining a okay level of consciousness. My dream is black and empty and when I try to create a dream scene it's like trying to hold onto smoke.

Thoughts?

**Spock** · 01-23-2016 01:00 PM

I think that the thing that hinders you the most is that you don't truly believe you have control over your dreams. It's not about a particular stabilization / RC technique, but rather just to be aware enough to KNOW that you can change whatever you want in a dream...

About that particular reoccurring nightmare - reoccurring nightmares are a fairly common thing and happen to most of us. They tend to stop on their own, and the more value you assign to them in waking life, the more persistent they will be. My suggestion is to just understand that it's a dream. Just like any other it's fueled by random thoughts and memories from waking life, so there is nothing to worry about... If you're lucid during one of these dreams / nightmares, try to get more lucid and just get out of that scene into a new one... There are countless ways to "change" a dream, and you should find the one that works for you - consider teleportation, falling asleep (in the dream), going through a mirror / TV / computer screen, etc...

About dreams being black and empty when you WILD into them (which is essentially what you're doing) - it's possible that you're just out of REM, but don't worry about that... Try to visualize a scene, or if something is already there, try to interact with the dream and set your presence in it (like rubbing hands, touching stuff, dropping stuff, etc.) - this will force your brain to add detail to the dream.
You can also just wait a bit between awakenings, if you're really waking in the end of REM, but since there is no way to know that for sure - I personally would rather wait a bit within the empty dream until the next REM... But again, it's up to your judgment. I suggest to always try to create / enhance a scene - never assume you simply can't do it because it's the end of REM, because if you assume that, you wouldn't be able to do it, even if it's not NREM... It's all about KNOWING that you can do it (even if it didn't work once or twice before).

Finally, about DCs being uncooperative - again, it's pretty common... I think it's because we assume them to be. We assume that our brain doesn't want us to be lucid, and thus uses these DCs to trick us or hinder our progress. In truth, I think that our brain doesn't care too much about sending DCs with bad attitude. You must have had non-lucids where a DC initiated a conversation about LDing or something like that. So, basically on their own, WITHOUT OUR BIAS, I think the a dream character has exactly that same probability to be bad as it has to be good (let's say, 50% of them are nice, 50% are rude). Thing is, we usually assume them to be uncooperative because negative experiences are more memorable to the human brain than positive ones (it's a survival mechanism) - so we tend to remember more instances of uncooperative DCs. This is a bias, and this bias only increases the likelihood of uncooperative DCs - as I said, what you assume is what's going to happen in a dream. So if this bias makes you assume that the next DC is going to be uncooperative - it more likely will be. It's like a self fulfilling prophecy...

Our expectations / assumptions are what shapes the dream the most. Expecting a vague, nightmarish, dream with uncooperative DCs, will result in such a dream. Expecting having a fun, vivid, experience will increase the probability of it happening if you expect this in waking life, and by expecting this from within a dream (for that you need to be lucid) you can force it to happen.

**gab** · 01-23-2016 01:22 PM

Sometimes my lucid (or even non-lucid) starts to turn dark just a split second after I think that it will. But I immediatelly catch myself (or rather my subC does) and I quickly say/think to the dark element: "I love you and you are good". The dark thing starts to morph back to normal or it changes to something cute and non threatening.

I think I got this from Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self by Robert Waggoner's. But also from recommendations of some members of this forum. The premise is, that the dark element is part of us. Something that we don't like about ourselves and thus we reject it. It will stay there, constant, till we accept it's existance and we make peace with it.

I think you could start by imagining meeting these people as you are preparing to sleep. How you gonna maybe not see them there, or how you are projecting love and acceptance towards them. Dreams are what we think they are. They are formed by our thoughts and expectations.

If you realized that you are dreaming while you were dreaming, those would be lucid dreams. Congrats!

I don't usually talk to my DC and I rarely see them, so I can't say that they have been mean to me. But I read here that sometimes they can try to prevent you from becoming lucid. Maybe this comes down to expectation? When we are not sure if we can lucid dream or have one tonight. Then a DC just carries that theme.

What you are describing sounds like you are DEILDing. You are successfully falling back asleep while keeping your awereness. Only thing is that a dream is not always ready for you yet. So you can either stay there longer and wait for one to form. In this case, as soon as you see something, you can stand up and walk away. Because no matter how fleeting your dream is at that point, it is there.

Or, what I do, I realize I am still dreaming even if there is nothing only darkness and stand up or roll out before you see something.

The standing up part is only with your dream body. Since you are dreaming, you will not move you physical body and by "standing up" you will enter the dream.

I do practice this during day. Lay down, imagine how you roll to the side when you are standing up from your bed. Give your muscles command to move. But stop just short of actually moving. Continue the move only in your head, imagining it. Then continue to roll off your bed or stand up next to it.

When I first read this, I was like "whoa wut? How even..." But I made a leap of faith and it surprised the heck out of me when I realized I'm actually rolling off my bed. Makes me laugh hysterically every time because it's just so silly and I know I will make an ass of myself for everybody else to laugh at me. But there is nobody else and I hit the ground so softly as if landing on the cloud. Or when command to stand up is given instead of roll, I find myself standing up next to my bed or on the bed.

Keep going at what you are doing, you are doing great!

**xxPhoebusxx** · 01-23-2016 05:58 PM

Yeah, that's true Spock. I guess I have the belief that if I was meant to be conscious in the dream naturally that I would be. Although I suppose it makes no difference to my brain.

The reason that I suspect I'm just out of REM is that I dream and then I'm awake in my bed. Assuming they're not false awakenings. No way to know for sure though. I think I might start to focus on keeping my awareness throughout the night like in sleep yoga. Also need to raise my consciousness to waking level.

That sounds intriguing gab. I'm gonna try it out

**Spock** · 01-23-2016 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by xxPhoebusxx

The reason that I suspect I'm just out of REM is that I dream and then I'm awake in my bed.

I might be wrong about this but I don't think (based on what I read) that micro-awakenings only happen following the ending of REM. As far as I know they also might happen during REM, or even (rarely) in between two NREM stages... Most sleep stages charts are very generalized, in actuality it's not that clear cut... So it's better not to assume that an awakening means NREM for a few minutes.

**Eonnn** · 01-23-2016 07:44 PM

If I'm in a black empty dreamspace I usually just run forward in a straight line as fast as I can then I end up in a new scene. The other technique is to imagine a scene behind you then turn around. Gab what your describing sounds more like the OBE technique but this is still debatable anyway whether its an OBE or a dream.

With the dream characters appearing you are somewhat fearful and expecting them to be there. I used to be like this with aliens. I was fearful of them and expecting an alien trying to abduct me. But after having an experience of an alien appearing and me kicking its butt I no longer fear or expect it. This is because I now know what I would do in that situation and how I would handle it. It sounds to me like you were able to handle the storm troopers easily enough so you just need to transfer this to other DC's. Get creative and have fun with it, I've had DC's attack me before and its always fun kicking them through a wall or stopping their heart from beating just by thinking about it, go out there and snap some necks!