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    Thread: Aspects of lucid dreaming

    1. #1
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      Aspects of lucid dreaming

      Some ideas about the lucid dream state.

      What is Lucid dreaming?


      After some consideration I have cut down Lucid dreaming to its most basic patterns.

      1. The possession of a Noetic body.

      2. The immersion of said body in a Noetic environment.

      3. A positional freedom between this body and the environment.

      4. Being aware or being aware that one is aware that ones body and environment is in fact noetic in constitution.

      5. Access to higher cognitive faculties, i.e. Memory, intellect, planning, logic, etc.

      These are the minimum characteristics required for a state to be called a lucid dream in my opinion. These are the fundamentals of the lucid dream pattern.

      Faculties which vary in quality and intensity.

      1. Access to long term and working memory: While the lucid dream state implies some degree of access to memory, the level of access varies greatly between individuals and also between one lucid dream and another. Let us just say that the minimum level of contact with memory overall must be 1 in order to meet the basic requirements for a lucid dream state.

      2. Ability to think rationally: This of course is a hallmark of the Lucid dream state. In normal dreaming ones access to reason is severally limited, in large measure because of the lack of access to memory, in dreams one thinks nearly only in a observational manner about the current situation or perhaps in the extreme short term as well (getting aware from these zombies). Dreams seem to be essentially emotionally and instinctively driven, this in part explains their disjointed and often chaotic nature.

      3. Ability to plan for the future: A lucid dreamer besides being able to recall what he decided to do before entering the dream, he can also think about what he wants to do and how to go about achieving it as new information or desires come into play. The non-lucid dreamer if he happened to plan something he would be doing so based on inaccurate and mistaken assumptions. A non-lucid dream would plan using physical principles not knowing his true situation and thus will most likely not reach his Goal. While a Lucid dreamer plans on correct information about the nature of their situation and thus has a much greater chance of achieving it (he will not go about building a rocket by compiling metal components, or sending NASA an e-mail, but will just will one into existence).

      4. Awareness of ones current existence being a dream: This also occurs on a spectrum. Sometimes one is aware that one is in fact dreaming and all of ones actions reflect this knowledge and its implication in reference to ability and freedom, at other times it (knowledge one is dreaming) has not 'sunk in' that deep and one acts in conflict to that understanding. So in this case one acts partly it seems on correct data, but irrational behaviour still creeps in which leads one to act as if the dream was in fact the physical world. While a person who has a strong understanding that his current existential situation is a dream in constitution will act 100% of the time oriented by this realisation (if he wants to go to another town he will not bother waiting on the bus).

      Each one of these faculties can be put on a scale between one and ten. With the 4 aspects discussed above (more can be added for a more accurate conclusion) that would allow one to place the level of 'Lucidity' of any particular lucid dream on a scale between 1 and 40. 1-10 being low lucidity, 11-20 being moderate, 21-30 being high lucidity, 31-40 being super-lucidity.

      One must simply ask oneself a series of direct questions.


      About memory:


      Could I remember my address?

      Could I remember the goals I set for myself?

      About being rational:

      Was I thinking clearly, rationally, and in line with the situation?

      About Planning:


      Were my actions driven by emotion or rational thinking?

      How fare ahead was I thinking?

      About awareness:

      Did I feel aware?

      Did my actions reflect the awareness that I was dreaming?

      Aspects which also vary.

      The aesthetic and mood of the environment: Every lucid dream as said before occurs within the Noetic environment (objective psyche), but the nature (its beauty, lightness, darkness, complexity, realism, colouring, etc) of this environment can be all over the map depending on the person or particular dream. Every Lucid dream has a 'environmental context' which is self consistent and self-reinforcing. What do I mean by this? It was been my experience that whatever 'mood' and aesthetics (beautiful, happy, dark, creepy) are prominent at the initiation of the lucid dream state tends to stay present. For a example let us say the mood is happy, the sun will be out, people will be friendly, there will be nice houses and green fields. If you fly over a hill that new situation will most likely be just as nice. So every Lucid dream has underlying and imperceptible blue print underneath it, a basic equation like those which produce endless fractals. This basic 'mood' goes on to produce a near limitless variety of objects and situations congruent with itself.

      This is important for my next thought.


      "Heidegger sought to use the concept of Dasein to uncover the primal nature of "Being" (Sein), agreeing with Nietzsche and Dilthey[5] that Dasein is always a being engaged in the world: neither a subject, nor the objective world alone, but the coherence of Being-in-the-world. This ontological basis of Heidegger's work thus opposes the Cartesian "abstract agent" in favour of practical engagement with one's environment.[6] Dasein is revealed by projection into, and engagement with, a personal world[7]—a never-ending process of involvement with the world as mediated through the projects of the self.[1]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dasein

      I kept going back and forth on this 'mood' problem. I kept asking myself does the subjects mood produce the aesthetic pattern of the dream universe, or does the aesthetics of the dream universe generate the mood? It was when I came across the concept of Dasien or being-in-the world that I knew I had some kind of a answer. Ones existential situation is a field which includes both internal dispositions and external facts, ones 'being' is just as much in the world as within the mind. The emotions then are not projected into the world but are part of its fundamental constitution, which is to say part of our being. This is always true, But in the lucid dream state it becomes much more obvious, there is this feedback loop occurring in a objective way with no medium in between since the subjective and objective are at their base emergent properties of the same thing. The mood is as much in the world as in the subject.

      Ones being-in-the-dream-word is dictated by proximity of Dasein to a single unobservable attractor. This state attractor is a bit of a mystery, not much can be said about it directly. What I can say is that every lucid dream state rotates around its own singular attractor with its own characteristics, both in subjective and objective terms. The nature of this attractor dictates ones subjective faculties and feelings as well as the aesthetics and mood of the current dream universe. That these subjective and objective happenings are disjointed is a misconception, they arise from the same source, influence each other directly without need for a mediating factor, and are both fundamental aspects of our being-in-the-dream-world. So to answer my question; which is the more fundamental element and driving force on how the dream unfolds? Neither, they are co-occurrences of a unseen singularity which both emerge from and are patterned by.

      The mood-environment synergy can range from ugly to beautiful, and between any two emotional or aesthetic extremes one cares to mention.

      Examples.

      Dark-Light
      sad-Happy
      Depressing-Vital
      unorganised-Complex
      painful-enjoyable
      ugly-beautiful
      Closed in- Open
      Creepy- pleasant

      One could put any pair in between a scale of one to ten. Add several of them together and one has a pretty good generalisation of the over all experience, below five for example could be shades of creepiness, above 5 could be levels of its opposite. One could do this with emotional and aesthetic pairings until a accurate model is produced. Let us say one just uses the 8 pairs above, that would give one a system to chart a particular lucid dreams 'goodness' on a scale from 1-80.

      A synthesis of two scales to quantify a particular Lucid dream experience.

      Lucidity scale:

      Access to long term and working memory 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.10 - 7

      Ability to think rationally 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.10 - 8

      Ability to plan for the future 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.10 - 6

      Awareness of ones current existence being a dream 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.10 - 7

      Note: If one is not sure on intuition break down the lucid dream action by action i.e. How did you react to danger, did you forget you could fly, did you cover your face when something was thrown at you?

      Conclusion: Level of Lucidity 28. Moderate Lucidity.

      Goodness' scale.


      Dark 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.10 Light 6

      sad 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.10 Happy 7

      Depressing 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.10 Vital 5

      unorganised 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.10 Complex 4

      painful 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.10 enjoyable 5

      ugly 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.10 beautiful 7

      Closed in 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.10 Open 5

      Creepy 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.10 pleasant 7

      Conclusion:
      Level of 'Goodness' 46. Moderate goodness.

      Any comments, additions, or criticism will be appreciated.
      Last edited by Valis1; 11-09-2016 at 01:38 PM.
      naturespirit, Nfri and Raziiel like this.
      "Parable.- Those thinkers in whom all stars move in cyclic orbits are not the most profound: whoever looks into himself as into vast space and carries galaxies in himself also knows how irregular all galaxies are; they lead into the chaos and labyrinth of existence."- Friedrich Nietzsche, the gay science, First published in 1882 revised in 1887, translated by Walter Kaufmann [/SIGPIC]

    2. #2
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      Hey there! good reading, here are some of my thoughts.

      ''I kept asking myself does the subjects mood produce the aesthetic pattern of the dream universe, or does the aesthetics of the dream universe generate the mood?''

      That's good question, I would say mood can be influenced by the enviroment (dream) but just in certain way. Usually the mood is boosted by feeling freedom and excitement from the knowing that this is your brain simulation and you cand do whatever you want to. But if the lucid dream is longer, this excitement decreases... I sometimes feel boredom in long lucid dreams for example when I fly for long time. BUt yes, in lucid dream you can change the enviroment and enviroment can change your mood

      About memory:

      If you practice awareness in lucid dreaming and obtain higher level of consiousness these following tasks are quite easy.

      Could I remember my address? YES

      Could I remember the goals I set for myself? YES

      About being rational:

      Was I thinking clearly, rationally, and in line with the situation? You can. It's like in waking reality.

      About Planning:

      Were my actions driven by emotion or rational thinking? It depends on what are you focusing... It's like in waking reality.

      How fare ahead was I thinking? It depends on you planning skills - It's like in waking reality

      About awareness:

      Did I feel aware? With practice, you know these degrees of awareness

      Did my actions reflect the awareness that I was dreaming? It depends on you level of awareness
      Last edited by Nfri; 11-09-2016 at 02:20 PM.
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