Thread: Why aren't we always lucid

Originally Posted by Kaan

I think the reason why we are not lucid every night is simpler than everything that has been written in this thread so far.
We are not lucid because we are not supposed to.

It has been proved that during non luci dreams, few parts and functions of the brain (and a certain kind of neurons) are turned off.
This must have a biological reason. (hobson gave some)
I see lucid dreaming as a way to hack the brain.
When those parts and function are turned on (because of prospective conditioning : DILD techniques, or because it has not been turned off :WILD), the brain starts to work more like it works when awake.

The parts and functions involved in the sens of self, and few other functions, probably need to rest while other parts need to keep working during a certain fraction of the night.
Plus maybe dreams are supposed to be rather random and with free idea associations, a cat becomes a tiger few seconds later, a yellow umbrella becomes a yellow stick and so on.
Because dream events are succeeding this way, in an illogical and inconstant way, if the functions involved in the recognition of illogical or weird events were not turned off, this way of producing dreams would be compromised and it's purpose (whatever it is) too.

Lucid dreaming is a way to make the brain work in an unnatural way, that's why I see it as a hack, or a glitch for occasional and spontaneous LDs.

. What about those many naturals that boast lucid all the time or the few that have worked to get to that point? From the ones I have talked to, they don't have any issues because of lucid dreaming.

Also, tho I may not quite be at the level of the ones I mentioned that are lucid every dream, i am lucid every night in most dreams, and it seems to be a more natural and healthy state. When I am not eating or sleeping or active, I struggle to LD. When I am healthy and productive, they seem to come easily and if I could keep that up, I feel like I would be lucid even more.

@OP NFRI, this actually does lead me to an idea and a point, that the reason we dont LD, when there are lots of naturals that easily LD and do it all night every night, is that we are not as healthy, or simply dont have an interest in dreams. Those two things from a young age seem to be a common idea for naturals.

Originally Posted by Kaan

I think the reason why we are not lucid every night is simpler than everything that has been written in this thread so far.
We are not lucid because we are not supposed to....Lucid dreaming is a way to make the brain work in an unnatural way, that's why I see it as a hack, or a glitch for occasional and spontaneous LDs.

Originally Posted by Sensei

. What about those many naturals that boast lucid all the time or the few that have worked to get to that point? From the ones I have talked to, they don't have any issues because of lucid dreaming.

Also, tho I may not quite be at the level of the ones I mentioned that are lucid every dream, i am lucid every night in most dreams, and it seems to be a more natural and healthy state. When I am not eating or sleeping or active, I struggle to LD. When I am healthy and productive, they seem to come easily and if I could keep that up, I feel like I would be lucid even more.

I think maybe that these two views are not actually in opposition.

I agree with Kaan that LD'ing is pretty much by definition an "unnatural" event. All tech talk aside, the very act of lucidity -- being awake while you are asleep -- is paradoxical at best, and probably not what we were programmed to do during sleep. So the reason consistent lucidity might be a problem is that we are moving upstream against the current of the brain functions we were given. However:

Aside from the fact that I do not agree that there are "many naturals," as I have met to date only one person who has convinced me that he is a natural (and, BTW, he has professed real mental issues that could be related to his inability to release awareness from his dreams), though I've met many who proclaim themselves naturals, though most prove they are not after a very short conversation, there are many people -- myself included -- who LD very frequently, and some -- myself included -- whose lifelong practice has left them with at least a kernel of lucidity in most dreams. And those people seem to be quite healthy and reasonably sane -- hopefully myself included. In fact, some would say that they are able to use their lucidity to enhance the restorative functions of dreaming by having a Here&Now opportunity to digest any messages their unconscious might be offering. Also, I'm pretty sure that researchers have found that LD'ing -- at least in the moderate way that most people can manage -- has zero effect on the physical restoration going on during sleep (of course, I can't cite anything here, because I think I'm going on something LaBerge told me long ago).

So, even though LD'ing is an unnatural event, if it becomes commonplace in a person's life, it doesn't seem to do any real harm to our natural sleep and restorative functions. The caveat here here is that even those who LD every night are very likely having some NLD activity during their sleep cycle (especially in the early stages), so the "natural" work of sleep and dreams is still going on; so if someone did manage to be constantly lucid every moment of every night, they might encounter problems (as that guy I mentioned earlier did).

tl;dr: I think both of the positions you guys present are valid, and can live together in this process: Lucidity is not a natural function, but those who have learned (usually from years of intentional action) to counter some of that function by impressing their waking-life self-awareness upon it on a consistent basis have not seen their sleep functions or health (mental or physical) damaged.