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    Thread: When and which induction technique to branch out to

    1. #1
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      When and which induction technique to branch out to

      Hey everyone, I'm looking for some insight as to how to continue my LD journey. I have been practicing MILD for nearly a month. I feel I've had some success with this as I've had three LDs with varying levels of lucidity. However, I think my momentum is slowing a bit. It almost feels as if my focus is diminishing in some way.

      I've been practicing MILD exclusively and I am wondering if I am at the point where I should switch gears and attempt a different method, or if I should continue to push and cultivate the MILD technique.

      If I should attempt to incorporate a new induction technique, which induction technique would you recommend for someone who is new to lucid dreaming?

      If it makes any difference, my dream recall has drastically increased. I now remember multiple dreams every night with gradually increasing vividity over the weeks. Other aspects of my practice have included progressive memory training daily (missing a day once or twice), awareness throughout the day, which is difficult for my mind to consistently do. I still sometimes forget about awareness for hours. There are RCs, which I do pretty frequently - never less than five a day. I attempt to perform RCs during more dreamlike times to stop them from becoming mindless RCs.

      Thank you to anyone who will give some advice or feedback.
      Dreams are real while they last. Can we say more of life? - Havelock Ellis

    2. #2
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      I think there are a lot of techniques that are quite similar, but also work well when used back to back. For example MILD is more about pre-sleep, so you will the be following it up with DILD. If you wake in the night and still feel like you are in REM sleep you can try a WILD as you go back to sleep. Or if you need the toilet in the middle of the night you can follow it up with WBTB. So although they are all seperate methods they all bounce off each other well, and can often use a selection all in one night
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      That's a good idea. Thank you. When reading through Laberge's book, it seemed to suggest that you work with each induction technique for a while before moving to the next until you gain proficiency. But, like you said, using multiple techniques where they best fit seems to make a little more sense to me. I usually awake after each dream, write it down, then go back to sleep while trying to keep the MILD technique in mind.
      Dreams are real while they last. Can we say more of life? - Havelock Ellis

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      Dreamsigns are a very important part of the Laberge's MILD method.

      This quote is of Laberge's introduction to dreamsigns in Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming.

      Thanks to a strange little detail—the apparently changed position of the cobblestones—a single out-of-place feature in an otherwise convincingly realistic scene, this dreamer was able to realize that he was dreaming. I have named such characteristically dreamlike features “dream-signs.” Almost every dream has dreamsigns, and it is likely that we all have our own personal ones. Once you know how to look for them, dreamsigns can be like neon lights, flashing a message in the darkness:“This is a dream! This is a dream!” You can use your journal as a rich source of information on how your own dreams signal their dreamlike nature. Then you can learn to recognize your most frequent or characteristic dreamsigns—the specific ways your dream world tends to differ from your waking world. When people realize they are dreaming, it is often because they reflect on unusual or bizarre occurrences in their dreams. By training yourself to recognize dreamsigns, you will enhance your ability to use this natural method of becoming lucid.

      People don’t become lucid more often in the presence of dreamsigns because of a normal tendency to rationalize and confabulate—they make up stories to explain what is going on, or they think, “There must be some explanation.” Indeed, there must be, but too rarely does such a half-awake dreamer realize what it actually is. If, on the other hand, the dreamsign occurs in the dream of someone who has learned to recognize it, the result is a lucid dream.

      I once awoke from a dream in which my contact lens, having dropped out of my eye, was multiplying like some sort of super-protozoan, and I resolved that in future dreams like this I would notice the mutant lens as a dreamsign. And indeed, I have become lucid in at least a dozen dreams by recognizing this particular oddity. Each of us has his or her own individual dreamsigns, though some are familiar to most of us, like the case of going to work in your pajamas. The illustrative inventory of dreamsigns below can help you look for your personal dreamsigns, but remember that your dreamsigns will be as unique as you are.

      The dreamsign inventory lists types of dreamsigns organized according to the way people naturally seem to categorize their experiences in dreams. There are four primary categories. The first one, inner awareness, refers to things that dreamers (egos) perceive as happening within themselves, such as thoughts and feelings. The other three categories (action, form, and context) classify elements of the dream environment. The action category includes the activities and motions of everything in the dream world—the dream ego, other characters, and objects. Form refers to the shapes of things, people, and places, which are often bizarre and frequently transform in dreams. The final category is context. Sometimes in dreams the combination of elements—people, places, actions, or things, is odd, although there is nothing inherently strange about any item by itself. Such strange situations are context dreamsigns. Also included in the context category are events like finding yourself in a place preparation for Learning Lucid Dreaming you are unlikely to be, meeting other characters in unusual places, finding objects out of place, or playing an unaccustomed role.

      INNER AWARENESS
      You have a peculiar thought, a strong emotion, feel an unusual sensation, or have altered perceptions. The thought can be one that is unusual, that could occur only in a dream, or that “magically” affects the dream world. The emotion can be inappropriate or oddly overwhelming. Sensations can include the feeling of paralysis, or of leaving your body, as well as unusual physical feelings and unexpectedly sudden or intense sexual arousal. Perceptions may be unusually clear or fuzzy, or you may be able to see or hear something you wouldn’t be able to in waking life.

      ACTION
      You, another dream character, or a dream thing (including inanimate objects and animals) do something unusual or impossible in waking life. The action must occur in the dream environment, that is, not be a thought or feeling in the dreamer’s mind. Malfunctioning devices are examples of object action dreamsigns.

      FORM
      Your shape, the shape of a dream character, or that of a dream object is oddly formed, deformed, or transforms. Unusual clothing and hair count as anomalies of form. Also, the place you are in (the setting) in the dream may be
      different than it would be in waking life.

      CONTEXT
      The place or situation in the dream is strange. You may be somewhere that you are unlikely to be in waking life, or involved in a strange social situation. Also, you or another dream character could be playing an unaccustomed
      role. Objects or characters may be out of place, or the dream could occur in the past or future.
      The dreamsigns don't have to recur to be dreamsigns. Learn to recognize dreamsigns during dreams! We could use the MILD method to do this. It helps us associate dreamsigns with the fact we're dreaming.

      3. Focus your intent
      While returning to sleep, concentrate singlemindedly on your intention to remember to recognize that you’re dreaming. Tell yourself: “Next time I’m dreaming, I want to remember I’m dreaming.” Really try to feel that you mean it. Narrow your thoughts to this idea alone. If you find yourself thinking about anything else, just let go of these thoughts and bring your mind back to your intention to remember.

      4. See yourself becoming lucid
      At the same time, imagine that you are back in the dream from which you have just awakened, but this time you recognize that it is a dream. Find a dreamsign in the experience; when you see it say to yourself: “I’m dreaming!” and continue your fantasy. For example, you might decide that when you are lucid you want to fly. In that case, imagine yourself taking off and flying as soon as you come to the point in your fantasy that you “’realize”you are dreaming.

    5. #5
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      Hey dolphin, thank you for your suggestions. I've read Laberge's EWOLD a couple of times now with a heavy focus on the MILD section in particular, which I keep going back to over and over In addition to keeping a DJ, I've been writing down each dream sign as outlined above. My dreamsigns in the context category far outnumber the others. I have tried to learn to recognize them, but so far with little success.

      Is there a way that has helped you or others germinate awareness and recognizance of dreamsigns? What I have been trying so far is to visualize myself in a dream noticing peculiarities, like if I'm wearing contextually inappropriate clothing, for example, whereupon achieving lucidity. I've had three dreams so far with that particular dream sign yet I have not become lucid within the dream. I'm hoping I am working towards recognizing dreamsigns in a productive way, as step 4. in the MILD tutorial instructs.

      Maybe my issue is simply that I have not yet given myself enough time to develop this ability. I feel that I'm working on recognizing dreamsigns within non-LDs, yet I seem to not be making progress in this way. I'll keep at it, though.

      *Edit - left out a thought*
      Last edited by zelcrow; 01-09-2019 at 05:30 AM.
      Dreams are real while they last. Can we say more of life? - Havelock Ellis

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      Quote Originally Posted by zelcrow View Post
      I've had three dreams so far with that particular dream sign yet I have not become lucid within the dream.
      Try to learn from these dreams. What was your reaction when this dream sign appeared in the dream? If you learn how you tend to react to the dream sign, this reaction can become part of the dream sign.
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      I'm sure there will be advice against it from some people, but yeah I think keeping your options open and practicing different techniques is the best way to go. Your dream recall sounds very well disciplined already so you can't be putting much more effort into just MILD.

      Out of interest, what were the moments you realised you were dreaming on your first three LDs? (This is personal so you dont have to say.)
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      Thanks, dolphin. I will try to incorporate that into my regimen. I'm looking forward to having more lucids.

      And I think I'm going to give that a shot, Sunfire. I attempted a WILD this morning but was not successful. I had a short dream, but I lost focus by that point and was not lucid. I awoke to the "noise" in the way of body vibrations. I tried to stay very still to reenter the dream, but I became more awake over time.

      And sure, I don't mind answering at all. I understand that dreams can be personal to some and that some dreams are personal, but I don't feel a sense of privacy regarding most of my dreams.

      I'll try to exercise my brevity as much as possible.
      As far as the moments of attaining lucidity, the first one was a combination of a few things happening in quick succession. The first lucid I had was set in a church with my father that had me attend as a child, my father then making a joke, laughing, and resting his head on my head and shoulder, which made me feel weird and hot, and then me looking down at my body to see I was shirtless. I then became lucid after realizing my shirt was gone. That is the first time the odd apparel dreamsign occurred, and I did recognize it. But since then, I have not recognized during the dream the last three times it has happened. I'll be aware that it's strange and feel self-conscious but do not have enough of the "critical faculty" to become lucid.

      The second, I was standing behind a business in town and noticed it was too dark and seemed surreal. At night there are plenty of LED street lights in this area which illuminate the parking lot IWL. When I noticed this I became suspicious that I was dreaming while talking to a guy I know behind the building. I quickly said bye to try and do an RC to confirm I was dreaming. When I realized I was dreaming, my dream vision went away. I wandered back to my car, lucid but blind, for about 15 seconds or so. When I found my vehicle I lost my lucidity. I remained suspicious that I was dreaming for awhile, testing out the acceleration of my car and things like that, but remained convinced it was not a dream.

      The third time me, my sister, and my mother were riding in a vehicle while my sister's partner drove. He was speeding. I asked him to slow down and he wouldn't. We then came upon a 90-degree turn where he tried to overcompensate by braking and turning and the vehicle flipped. I was ejected but somehow fine. I came back to the vehicle to check on them. I couldn't see them anywhere. I flipped the vehicle over and started pulling it apart. I thought they had been crushed. As I was doing this I realized I was dreaming. I stopped what I was doing to look at my hands. I then knew I was dreaming as my hands were changing shapes before my vision.

      There have been a couple of other times I don't consider to have been lucid where I'll be dreaming and at the end of the dream as it's fading I'll see nothing but white and know I'm dreaming. I want to be back in the dream so try to stay still but I still seem to wake up each time.
      Dreams are real while they last. Can we say more of life? - Havelock Ellis

    9. #9
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      Okay so they are quite mixed so far. The unusual clothing on is quite an observant one. We all miss major dreams signs so don't beat yourself up on them.
      I just write it down, put it in a category and write a note next to it, see if you get similar ones coming up regularly.

      The Majority of my lucid dreams tend to begin similar to the middle one, where it's dark or I'm alone..I think it stems from waking myself up from nightmares a lot as a kid, nowadays I can notice very early on if a negative seed is going to take hold.

      [I'll be aware that it's strange and feel self-conscious but do not have enough of the "critical faculty" to become lucid.]
      This is where the reality checks are really important, if any of your dreams signs come up you want to be following them up with a nose hold or something. If you notice any of the weird ones in particular then there's a good chance a reality check will confirm you are dreaming.

      The part about this post I find most interesting though is your struggle with vision when lucid. I presume that's what you were meant to say at the end of the third one as well? Was this after you tried the spinning technique you mentioned on previous threads?
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      I will keep that in mind about making notes for certain dreamsigns.

      And that is good that you have developed enough awareness to notice if a negative dream is potentially on the rise. Being able to rid yourself of bad dreams and/or nightmares seems great.

      Yes, for sure. If I can get to a point to remember to do reality checks in my dreams more often that will be great. I'm hoping my intention to do so and progressive memory training will aid in this.

      And yes, that is what happened at the end of the third LD I had. Continuing the third LD written above, once I looked at my hands for ten seconds or so I felt that the dream wasn't stabilized enough. I erroneously commenced with the spinning (in retrospect I wish I had rubbed my hands or the ground or something) and everything went black and I never recovered from it. I eventually started feeling my body in my bed and awoke from there.

      As far as the non-LDs, it has been similar, except the vision is completely white instead of black as the dream fades. For example, one dream I had there was a tornado very close by. I scrambled into my car but struggled because the weight of the rain was pushing me onto the ground. While in my car the dream faded and everything in my vision turned white with some flickering shapes here and there. As soon as the whiteness took over my vision, I became aware I was/had been dreaming. I wasn't able to return to the dream state, though, I stayed motionless in bed for awhile. I am hoping that dream blindness or whatever it is will not become a struggle or hurdle. I've noticed it but I don't know if it's an issue yet.

      I am curious, Sunfire, how often do you achieve LDs at this point? If this is not the right place to ask, just let me know.
      Dreams are real while they last. Can we say more of life? - Havelock Ellis

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      Welcome to DV by the way zelcrow! You are off to a pretty good start and I wouldn't be surprised to see you here for months and years to come, aiding others in the future.

      Quote Originally Posted by zelcrow View Post
      I am hoping that dream blindness or whatever it is will not become a struggle or hurdle. I've noticed it but I don't know if it's an issue yet.
      I would say be careful reading about challenges others have experienced and making them your own. Check the first link in my signature for some good info on this.

      Answering your original question, I'd say WBTB combined with MILD or SSILD: https://www.dreamviews.com/induction...eam-ssild.html

      Spoiler for
      You might also find this interesting
      :
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    12. #12
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      Hey, thank you so much for the welcome and also for your encouraging words! That is nice to hear. Hopefully I will continue to gain experience and be able to help others with their LD pursuits. I feel thankful to have a resource such as this with people who are willing to take their time to help and encourage others.

      And that sounds like a good idea. I wouldn't want to create a problem that doesn't otherwise exist. As it has happened I've tried not to think too much of it and keep in mind that it maybe is just something that happens at the end of REM cycles or it's just a random occurrence here and there. I will surely check out the link you mentioned, though. I've been trying to read any helpful or relevant information concerning LDing.

      Oh, I just read for the first time about SSILDs for the first time the other day and have wanted to know more. So thank you for sharing that link as well, and at an apt time too! I enjoyed reading the crate analogy; it is an interesting way of thinking about it.
      Last edited by zelcrow; 01-10-2019 at 04:42 AM.
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      I will send you a photo of my dream journal notes I was talking about.

      Yeah if you can get yourself questioning 'is this a dream?' regularly during the day, then there's a good chance of you doing it whilst your asleep.

      At the moment I am really into it and I'm on a good spell, probably my best, realising I'm dreaming about every other night. However everyone will tell you if you stop putting the effort in it's easy to slip into bad dry spells and go for long periods without a lucid dream. I am definitely guilty of that unfortunetly.

      In terms of the vision point, I had a issue that effected a few of my early LDs. I'm not going to go into detail, as fogelbise said, i wouldn't want to put any stumbling blocks into you head. However when it happened to me I found it best to deal with it head on. When it happend i took a moment to compose myself, and then assertively out loud said -
      "This is my dream, I am in full control here, [insert problem], thid won't happen any more!"
      It's important to realise once you are lucid that you are in total control. If you let doubt come into play then it will become expectation. Collect your thoughts, speaking out loud helps greatly, and remember you are in full control of the aspects of your dream.
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      Yeah, sure. Send it over the dream journal notes whenever it is convenient for you. I'd enjoy reading that.

      I have been trying to make a habit of asking that question at least 5-10 times a day while adding the awareness and incorporating RRCs that the user, Sageous, wrote about in his detailed WILD tutorial. My only struggle with that so far is that it seems difficult to attach enough meaning in my mind with each RC; sometimes I do genuinely feel the wonder and meaningfully feel I'm asking if I am dreaming, and others times it is a challenge to get my mind in the right place. I'm not sure why that is. Maybe it is some kind of mental fatigue I am experiencing. I want to avoid my RCs becoming mechanical or rote as much as possible.

      And that's interesting. It seems that you get out of it what you put into it when it comes to LDing. That is great that you're able to be lucid every other day or so.

      And that sounds like really good advice as far as combating any issues that arise with LDs. I'll keep in mind to keep my awareness about me and to remember it's my dream, and, as you said, confront any issues head-on. Just reading your post and writing this out makes me think it will be less of an issue and only a temporary hurdle if that. It seems confidence and expectation are powerful tools for LDs.
      Dreams are real while they last. Can we say more of life? - Havelock Ellis

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