Thread: Philosophical question: If you're dreaming you're having an LD are you actually having an LD?

Originally Posted by dolphin

Full awareness of being in a dream is knowing everything associated with the fact of being in a dream. I think Paul Tholey describes well what full lucidity is. He says a lucid dream includes:

That's a great idea to categorize all the aspects of awareness in an LD!

Awareness of the dream state (orientation)

So that's what most people think of when they think of being lucid, right? In other words, it's being aware of the fact that you're dreaming?

Awareness of the capacity to make decisions

That would be awareness of how much ability you have to make choices to do different things in the dream state, right?

Awareness of memory functions

Not completely sure what that one means. Does it mean an ability to remember things you had intended to do once you got lucid?

Awareness of self

So would that mean having a correct awareness of who you are? That is, your name, where you live IWL, where you're sleeping at the moment, etc.? Similar to what I was talking about relating to RFCs in a couple of recent posts?

Awareness of the dream environment

Not completely sure what Tholey is getting at with that one. Could you explain it?

Awareness of the meaning of the dream

Would that be an awareness of why you might be having the dream? Or maybe what certain dream content might symbolize?

Awareness of concentration and focus (the subjective clarity of that state).

I'm also not sure I understand what he means by that one. I guess maybe it's an awareness of how good your concentration is and how well you're able to focus on things you decide to do in the dream?

You're correct in implying that lucidity is a spectrum and that all lucid dreams do not have the same level of lucidity.

Definitely!

Originally Posted by Zthread

Awareness of the dream state (orientation)

So that's what most people think of when they think of being lucid, right? In other words, it's being aware of the fact that you're dreaming?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Zthread

Awareness of the capacity to make decisions

That would be awareness of how much ability you have to make choices to do different things in the dream state, right?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Zthread

Awareness of memory functions

Not completely sure what that one means. Does it mean an ability to remember things you had intended to do once you got lucid?

Its the ability to be aware that we can remember things or commit things to memory (to recall later)

Originally Posted by Zthread

Awareness of self

So would that mean having a correct awareness of who you are? That is, your name, where you live IWL, where you're sleeping at the moment, etc.? Similar to what I was talking about relating to RFCs in a couple of recent posts?

Not exactly, it's much deeper than that. He means self-awareness, which is awareness of our self and its connection to our present surroundings. For example, if we see ourselves in a mirror, self-awareness gives us the ability to be aware that the reflection in the mirror is of ourselves presently looking at the mirror. Another example is self-awareness the ability to identify that we are dreaming and that the dream is coming from us. Another example of self awareness is awareness of why we are having the dream and what certain dream content might symbolize.

The RFC example you gave involves awareness of the self, but not much of a connection to the present dream. I think Sageous' idea for a RRC ( Reverse Reality Check ) Is closer to a self-awareness exercise.

Originally Posted by Zthread

Awareness of the dream environment

Not completely sure what Tholey is getting at with that one. Could you explain it?

This is basic awareness. Relative to the self-awareness mirror example, this is awareness of the mirror itself.

Originally Posted by Zthread

Awareness of the meaning of the dream

Would that be an awareness of why you might be having the dream? Or maybe what certain dream content might symbolize?

No, it means that we're aware what the fact we're dreaming means. It means we're aware that due to the fact we're dreaming, the physical and social rules of waking life don't have to apply in the dream.

Originally Posted by Zthread

Awareness of concentration and focus (the subjective clarity of that state).

I'm also not sure I understand what he means by that one. I guess maybe it's an awareness of how good your concentration is and how well you're able to focus on things you decide to do in the dream?

Yes, it means we are able to think clearly.