Thread: Secret Passage?

thanks for correcting me tommo, see thats what happens when you watch the discovery channel stoned. anywho i guees what I meant you summed up in one sentence. Althought maybe LDing/meditation/hypnosis/astral travel, are ways to interact with them.

Interesting thread - and an amazing dream Ion!

I read a few times on this thread that such and such a practice is very hard and requires years of study. However this too sounds like yet another attachment - attachment to the idea that something is hard (then it sure will be&#33, and attachment to the concept of time. The only time to become enlightened is now - its the only time there is... There is a story about a novice monk who asks his master how long will it take to reach enlightenment. His master replies "Ten years". The novice says "What if I study twice as hard?". "Twenty years." replies the master.

Not that I'm claiming spiritual superiority - I have my own attachments!!!

Tantra/ Dzogchen etc - and Dream Yoga - does seem fascinating. I'm rereading the books below and trying those and other practices again (energy/ sex stuff as well as LDing). Also thinking of giving up my job and going to find a teacher somewhere in the Himalayas!

Dream Yoga and the Practice of Natural Light by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche

Originally Posted by slimslowslider

Interesting thread - and an amazing dream Ion!

I read a few times on this thread that such and such a practice is very hard and requires years of study. However this too sounds like yet another attachment - attachment to the idea that something is hard (then it sure will be&#33, and attachment to the concept of time. The only time to become enlightened is now - its the only time there is... There is a story about a novice monk who asks his master how long will it take to reach enlightenment. His master replies "Ten years". The novice says "What if I study twice as hard?". "Twenty years." replies the master.

Not that I'm claiming spiritual superiority - I have my own attachments!!!

Tantra/ Dzogchen etc - and Dream Yoga - does seem fascinating. I'm rereading the books below and trying those and other practices again (energy/ sex stuff as well as LDing). Also thinking of giving up my job and going to find a teacher somewhere in the Himalayas!

Dream Yoga and the Practice of Natural Light by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche
[/b]

I think is great you are considering to do this... this is something that I'm going to do inthe future.. I whant to study for Geshe ,.you get this title when you finish 20 to 25 years of strict study and parctise..

If you go to Nepal, Tibet, India, Buthan where you can find good teachers. you will only need like 3 dollarsper day or less that includes food and teachings...

Where are you from? there great teachers In the United States, as well as in Europe.

Look for this teachers, they have great books , teachings and monasteries.. I have recieve teachings from them, so I greatly recommend them.

geshe Michael Roach
Allan Wallace
Lama Ole Nydah
Matthieu Ricard


They are great occidental teachers... have a look..
any questions message me..


Good luck..

-Is very important to find true sources, as well as good teachers... they are hard to find.

(remember is not giving up material things, is how you related to this material things you have to give up)

Originally Posted by slimslowslider

Interesting thread - and an amazing dream Ion!

I read a few times on this thread that such and such a practice is very hard and requires years of study. However this too sounds like yet another attachment - attachment to the idea that something is hard (then it sure will be&#33, and attachment to the concept of time. The only time to become enlightened is now - its the only time there is... There is a story about a novice monk who asks his master how long will it take to reach enlightenment. His master replies "Ten years". The novice says "What if I study twice as hard?". "Twenty years." replies the master.

Not that I'm claiming spiritual superiority - I have my own attachments!!!

Tantra/ Dzogchen etc - and Dream Yoga - does seem fascinating. I'm rereading the books below and trying those and other practices again (energy/ sex stuff as well as LDing). Also thinking of giving up my job and going to find a teacher somewhere in the Himalayas!

Dream Yoga and the Practice of Natural Light by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche
[/b]

Hi,

It is with well-meaning intention that I write to you. I would like to suggest that you don't give up your job, at least not without serious consideration. Or unless you are already a wealthy multi-millionaire or something. Even a lay Buddhist can attain Enlightenment, though it is probably more difficult than an ordained monk/monastic.

If I am not wrong, Lord Buddha taught lay Buddhists how to attain Enlightenment too. If I am not wrong, Lord Buddha did not require everyone to become a monk or nun.

Originally Posted by slimslowslider

-Is very important to find true sources, as well as good teachers... they are hard to find.

(remember is not giving up material things, is how you related to this material things you have to give up)
[/b]

Yes, I agree. It is more important to give up one's attachment to material things than the material things themselves.

Karuna (Compassion)

It is more important to give up one's attachment to material things than the material things themselves.[/b]

In my sig! I enevr actually thought about this, but it makes sense, selling all your possessions isn't going to automatically rid of your attatchment to them, unless of course you sold them all because you don't have an attatchment anymore.... Anyway, this thread is great! that quote is great!

Originally Posted by Ben_

I think is great you are considering to do this... this is something that I'm going to do inthe future.. I whant to study for Geshe ,.you get this title when you finish 20 to 25 years of strict study and parctise..

If you go to Nepal, Tibet, India, Buthan where you can find good teachers. you will only need like 3 dollarsper day or less that includes food and teachings...

Where are you from? there great teachers In the United States, as well as in Europe.

Look for this teachers, they have great books , teachings and monasteries.. I have recieve teachings from them, so I greatly recommend them.

geshe Michael Roach
Allan Wallace
Lama Ole Nydah
Matthieu Ricard
They are great occidental teachers... have a look..
any questions message me..
Good luck..

-Is very important to find true sources, as well as good teachers... they are hard to find.

(remember is not giving up material things, is how you related to this material things you have to give up)
[/b]

Thanks Ben!
That 20-25 years of practice... I'm guessing that Geshe means - 'someone who practices long and hard'?!!!

I live in London - and yes I should look for teachers here - I'll check the ones on your list. But in all my wanderings the best teachers don't advertise - the ones who do have been quaks. When I went to Bodh Gaya (where Buddha became enlightened) all the priests and monks seemed to be selling something. However there was a cleaner in one of the temples - he was seriously holy and even glowed!

I've lived and travelled in India and also spent time in Nepal - I LOVE THE HIMALAYAS, the people, their culture, nature - so that's part of my thinking - if I have to spend time somewhere I'd prefer the mountains...

Hi,

It is with well-meaning intention that I write to you. I would like to suggest that you don't give up your job, at least not without serious consideration. Or unless you are already a wealthy multi-millionaire or something. Even a lay Buddhist can attain Enlightenment, though it is probably more difficult than an ordained monk/monastic.

If I am not wrong, Lord Buddha taught lay Buddhists how to attain Enlightenment too. If I am not wrong, Lord Buddha did not require everyone to become a monk or nun.
[/b]

Darkmind - thanks!

They say only tramps and kings can travel. No I'm not loaded - but thanks to the current economic disparity, India is very cheap - so I'm a king there... Anyway I've given up everything to travel several times before - its always been more than OK. 'Consider the birds - neither do they reap nor sow and yet the Lord God feedeth them.' springs to mind.

Yes you're right - enlightenment is not the sole province of monks and nuns. However I get distracted in London, and although I have moments of clarity even in the city, I always find it easier to be myself in the wilderness. Also I'm curious as to what might happen if I were to meet a truly enlightened person - I have this image of been whacked on the head as I reveal my attachments. Further I'm very curious as to what a 'transmission' might be...

Originally Posted by tommo

In my sig! I enevr actually thought about this, but it makes sense, selling all your possessions isn't going to automatically rid of your attatchment to them, unless of course you sold them all because you don't have an attatchment anymore.... Anyway, this thread is great! that quote is great!
[/b]

You are welcome

I noticed you quoted me in your signature. (I paraphrased that idea from my memory of a Buddhist book I had read --- "Three Teachings" by Tenzin Palmo. That idea is widely known in Buddhist circles I believe) Thanks for the wonderful compliment. I appreciate it

For completeness, I think I should add this statement too: One should also be careful to avoid the other extreme, which is being attached to the idea of non-attachment. In other words, one must try to avoid being obsessed with non-attachment also

Karuna (Compassion)

Originally Posted by tommo

Thanks Ben!
That 20-25 years of practice... I'm guessing that Geshe means - 'someone who practices long and hard'?!!!

I live in London - and yes I should look for teachers here - I'll check the ones on your list. But in all my wanderings the best teachers don't advertise - the ones who do have been quaks. When I went to Bodh Gaya (where Buddha became enlightened) all the priests and monks seemed to be selling something. However there was a cleaner in one of the temples - he was seriously holy and even glowed!

I've lived and travelled in India and also spent time in Nepal - I LOVE THE HIMALAYAS, the people, their culture, nature - so that's part of my thinking - if I have to spend time somewhere I'd prefer the mountains...
Darkmind - thanks!

They say only tramps and kings can travel. No I'm not loaded - but thanks to the current economic disparity, India is very cheap - so I'm a king there... Anyway I've given up everything to travel several times before - its always been more than OK. 'Consider the birds - neither do they reap nor sow and yet the Lord God feedeth them.' springs to mind.

Yes you're right - enlightenment is not the sole province of monks and nuns. However I get distracted in London, and although I have moments of clarity even in the city, I always find it easier to be myself in the wilderness. Also I'm curious as to what might happen if I were to meet a truly enlightened person - I have this image of been whacked on the head as I reveal my attachments. Further I'm very curious as to what a 'transmission' might be...


[/b]

That's a good story about the cleaner. I should mention it to some of my friends

Anyway, since the original statement I made was for you, I will restate what I wrote when addressing Ben (in case you didn't see it above):

"For completeness, I think I should add this statement too: One should also be careful to avoid the other extreme, which is being attached to the idea of non-attachment. In other words, one must try to avoid being obsessed with non-attachment also "


All the best in your life slimslowslider
Karuna (Compassion)

Have we gone a bit off topic? Not sure I should worry about - it as conversations meander naturally. But I'm still interested in what Ion's dream was! (U still here Ion?) An experienced Tibetan yoga practitioner would probably be able to immediately say which, if any, of the Bardos it was.

For completeness, I think I should add this statement too: One should also be careful to avoid the other extreme, which is being attached to the idea of non-attachment. In other words, one must try to avoid being obsessed with non-attachment also [/b]

Yup!

It reminds me of the whole 'Judge not, lest thee be judged.' thing - is that not judging judging?

All the best 2U2

Originally Posted by slimslowslider

Have we gone a bit off topic? Not sure I should worry about - it as conversations meander naturally. But I'm still interested in what Ion's dream was! (U still here Ion?) An experienced Tibetan yoga practitioner would probably be able to immediately say which, if any, of the Bardos it was.
Yup!

It reminds me of the whole 'Judge not, lest thee be judged.' thing - is that not judging judging?

All the best 2U2
[/b]

Thanks!

One should also be careful to avoid the other extreme, which is being attached to the idea of non-attachment.[/b]

Yeh I heard this on an audio tape of meditation that Buddha said to his followers something like "to achieve enlightenment you must first rid of your desire", so they went out beating off desire with stick and swords and came back to Buddha after years of trying and said to him "nothing you have said has worked" and he replied "before you had desire, now you have the desire to not desire".
Something along those lines anyway. And the point was, desiring not to desire is making it worse then just simply desiring.

Originally Posted by tommo

Yeh I heard this on an audio tape of meditation that Buddha said to his followers something like "to achieve enlightenment you must first rid of your desire", so they went out beating off desire with stick and swords and came back to Buddha after years of trying and said to him "nothing you have said has worked" and he replied "before you had desire, now you have the desire to not desire".
Something along those lines anyway. And the point was, desiring not to desire is making it worse then just simply desiring.
[/b]

Nice story. Thanks for sharing!

Originally Posted by slimslowslider

Have we gone a bit off topic? Not sure I should worry about - it as conversations meander naturally. But I'm still interested in what Ion's dream was! (U still here Ion?)
[/b]

Yes I'm still here and watching the thread closely. Lately I have been trying to improve my LD techniques so I can do more experiments. The WILD technique has proven to be very difficult, to say the least

We are probably a bit off topic... but I guess this kind of dream inevitably leads to religion related discussions, so I'm fine with that Question is, has anyone managed to do similar things after reading this post? Now THAT would be really interesting.