Thread: The levels of lucidity.

As many have said the two levels are


Im not dreaming=
like watching a movie,you have no control and you cant think im just gonna go throughe this wall,unless your unconciouse mind chosses to force you to go through.


I realize i am dreaming=
close to complete control,have the choice to go through the wall or summon other people or other things.

Originally Posted by Dream_Dood

As many have said the two levels are


Im not dreaming=
like watching a movie,you have no control and you cant think im just gonna go throughe this wall,unless your unconciouse mind chosses to force you to go through.


I realize i am dreaming=
close to complete control,have the choice to go through the wall or summon other people or other things.

Well that's your view... It's a subjective classification so there are no rights or wrongs.

[UPDATE!]

I was just able to get my post updated by a mod (thanks PJ) and my internet dies... XD. Figures. It was a problem with my router. My router randomly died and my computer rebooted.. (WTF?)

Anyways, I rewrote/revised pretty much everything. Most of it will actually make sense now to those that didn't get it. I'm gonna take comments then i'll probably do a small, final revision and sumbit it as a tut on the weekend.

But dam.. it's sexy now XD

Let me note that in the pre-lucid, or semi-lucid, state you may suspect you're dreaming or even think you're probably dreaming but fail to become lucid due to failure to perform an RC or a failed RC.

I've had several dreams in which I suspected a dream but for one reason or another I did a half-@ssed reality check or simply decided to wait to confirm that I'm dreaming. These cases did not result in lucidity but, the notion did occur to my conscious mind.

It's often said that if you think you're dreaming then you are. That's a good rule of thumb but it does not guarantee that the suspicion will bootstrap lucidity.

From my experience, there are only a few practical states that I can discern in dreaming.

non-lucid. I don't realize I am dreaming.
semi-lucid. I realize I am dreaming, but I remain distracted and do not take advantage of the situation, or fall into an automatic behavior without deliberation (yaaaaayyyy! I can fly! ). Basically, no self-control.
lucid. I know I am dreaming, and I have some modicum of self-control. I don't wake up, and I don't lose lucidity.

Then, there is the matter of self-control, which I usually rate based on how long I can keep myself in the lucid state.

I think percentages are meaningless, really, to the average lucid dreamer. It boils down to how long you can keep up a true lucid state, and what you manage to do in the dream.

Bump for great justice.

Good list arby I had a similiar Ladder of levels of lucidity although I think mine contained about 6 or something yet it was pretty much the same as yours I just clumped together things that were pretty much the same although you went into a lot of detail very good I am sure this will help a lot of people out.

Just a picture that resulted form another topic that shows the levels on a visual basis =O

Wow. You guys have way too much time on your hands. I thought the list was interesting, and made some good points. It made me think about dreams that I've experienced, and how much understanding/control I've had in them. But I guess my self-tought techniques are a bit crude, but effective. I find all the back and forth banter interesting, but distracting from the whole point. This stuff isn't about numbers, definitions, and classifications. That stuff is for the waking world. Sleepy-time should be about personal discovery and adventure, or just having a blast. Anyway, that's my reaction to all this. Carry on the discussion.

Originally Posted by Loner

Wow. You guys have way too much time on your hands. I thought the list was interesting, and made some good points. It made me think about dreams that I've experienced, and how much understanding/control I've had in them. But I guess my self-tought techniques are a bit crude, but effective. I find all the back and forth banter interesting, but distracting from the whole point. This stuff isn't about numbers, definitions, and classifications. That stuff is for the waking world. Sleepy-time should be about personal discovery and adventure, or just having a blast. Anyway, that's my reaction to all this. Carry on the discussion.

If we didn't have numbers and definitions than we would have nothing to go off of.

Originally Posted by Loner

Sleepy-time should be about personal discovery and adventure, or just having a blast.

I couldn't agree with you more. Unfortunately, lots of people need something laid out before them first. I just wanted to set things on a easy-to-understand scale so people can understand whats going on.

That, and its makes classifying/understanding/sharing your dreams so much easier if you can see where it falls. You use this in the morning, after you've had the dream to figure out what the hell just happened.

Originally Posted by Loner

It made me think about dreams that I've experienced, and how much understanding/control I've had in them.

Now keep that in mind...

I find all the back and forth banter interesting, but distracting from the whole point. This stuff isn't about numbers, definitions, and classifications. That stuff is for the waking world.

Interesting, you are awake now yet you are talking and thinking about dreams. Huh, sounds like it's about more than "sleep-time", doesn't it? If you bring dreams into the waking world and discuss dreams (which is what this forum is all about) then how is it so crazy to have some sort of standard by which it's possible to compare the relative level of lucidity?

Originally Posted by Oneironaught

Interesting, you are awake now yet you are talking and thinking about dreams. Huh, sounds like it's about more than "sleep-time", doesn't it? If you bring dreams into the waking world and discuss dreams (which is what this forum is all about) then how is it so crazy to have some sort of standard by which it's possible to compare the relative level of lucidity?

Hehe.. what he said..

(damn my inability to express it properly)

i like this thread..
it makes some kind of clear, to look how far i had gone.. or i could...
it also can add a wish to continue...

How informative.

this rating system puts me at about 94%, I can have fairly frequent lucid dreams I just have to work on my control for now... flyings no problem but causes me to lose control, I can stay lucid but my actions are more or less up to what my mind whats to do, not what I want to do...

wow i have ld 110% ! Good!

and 120% ?

Hmm, this certainly clears up one thing about my thread:

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...153#post987153

Thanks! I think I had a 30% - 40% dream there...

I think this thread should be put to the tutorials section

Originally Posted by Dream_Dood

As many have said the two levels are


Im not dreaming=
like watching a movie,you have no control and you cant think im just gonna go throughe this wall,unless your unconciouse mind chosses to force you to go through.


I realize i am dreaming=
close to complete control,have the choice to go through the wall or summon other people or other things.

Those are two possible states: on or off, yes or no. They aren't levels, per se`. You see, a stereo can be on or off as well. But do you realize that even those conditions can have degrees, or levels, of being or not being? If your stereo is off is it really completely off? Or is it in standby? Quiescence isn't really off but it sure isn't what you'd consider "on".

When that same stereo is on is it really completely on? Is the output muted? Is it at full volume? Or how about some level in between?

On/off, to be/not to be, yes/no - those are all sets of opposing states, or conditions, but they aren't the only two states that can be.

Off: I'm not on a sports team and don't care to be. Some one else is also not on a sports team but they are in the process of being hired. Those are both degrees (levels) of not being but I think you'll agree that they are indeed different levels, albeit, both in the same family.

On: Player X is on a sports team but serves as a glorified bench warmer, almost never getting play time. Player Y is also on that very same team yet gets play time every game. He has the ability to carry the team to victory while player X is barely 'on the team'. Those are both degrees (levels) of being but I think that once again you'll agree that they are two different levels of involvement.

I know I'm giving all these wild examples but I think it's worth understanding that just because you're lucid doesn't mean that you're fully "there" in all its glory. Being aware only puts you in the class. "Understanding" (awareness with faculties) puts you at the front of the class. They're both in school but, only one is getting honors.

Originally Posted by pj

The Levels thing is something that really seems to apply to my lucid dreams, as my awareness of ability to control circumstances and even stay lucid varies wildly. Another thing that varies is my "immersion" in the dreams - how much "into" the dream I am and how realistic it all feels. That ranges from a sense of watching a lousy cartoon to more intense than real life.

I completely agree. My experiences parallel your assessment. That's why I can state with such conviction that levels within each group - lucid and non - can and do exist.