Thread: OOBE's proved wrong

Originally Posted by Kromoh

How are you so sure? One person seeign something that happened doesn't prove anything. Behind him/her there are 1,000,000 other people who had an OBE and didn't see what happened.

Ever heard the word "coincidence"?


Finally, you can still hear or maybe even see things while dreaming. That again makes me suspiscious about OBEs.




I don't think scientists are stupid at all

dude, it cant be a coincidence that every time that you get out of your body you see exactly the things that happened.

and why is it so dificult to believe that there is something more than your body ,that something more is you. you are energy , negative and positive energy that constitutes you.
you are your mind and soul, the body is just a physical way to interact with the physical world

and by stupid scientists i dont mean academically , i mean that they deny everything that cant be prooven with science. and deny to proove it by experience thats the stupid part

Originally Posted by viking-45

dude, it cant be a coincidence that every time that you get out of your body you see exactly the things that happened.

and why is it so dificult to believe that there is something more than your body ,that something more is you. you are energy , negative and positive energy that constitutes you.
you are your mind and soul, the body is just a physical way to interact with the physical world

and by stupid scientists i dont mean academically , i mean that they deny everything that cant be prooven with science. and deny to proove it by experience thats the stupid part

Oh yeah, you do?

Let's do some scientifical experiment then. I really think you don't see things that happened everytime you have (what you think to be) an OBE. It's like once in many, many occurances.

I'm am my body. My brain is my body, my thoughts are my body. It's all physical. What you call a soul is all just another great tool evolution gave us, which is consciousness.


If something cannot be proven by science in any way, high chances are it is false. There is a pink elephant behind you right now, but I can't prove it scientifically you know. You have to believe it yourself.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

Oh yeah, you do?

Let's do some scientifical experiment then. I really think you don't see things that happened everytime you have (what you think to be) an OBE. It's like once in many, many occurances.

I'm am my body. My brain is my body, my thoughts are my body. It's all physical. What you call a soul is all just another great tool evolution gave us, which is consciousness.


If something cannot be proven by science in any way, high chances are it is false. There is a pink elephant behind you right now, but I can't prove it scientifically you know. You have to believe it yourself.

Whose body is it?

It's the body that composes my being. It's the body that completes me.

My body isn't mine; my body is ME. My toes are me, my ears are me, my hair is me.

My hands belong to my brain as well as my brain belongs to my hands.



i hate when people mess around the word "me" to try to prove sometging philosophical. If you have personality problems, it's not my fault xD

Originally Posted by Kromoh

It's the body that composes my being. It's the body that completes me.

My body isn't mine; my body is ME. My toes are me, my ears are me, my hair is me.

My hands belong to my brain as well as my brain belongs to my hands.



i hate when people mess around the word "me" to try to prove sometging philosophical. If you have personality problems, it's not my fault xD

Ow i didn't want to prove anything. I don't even believe proof is needed for anything. Usually it sparks a realization or sense of being more.
Proof requires consistency and ruling out, and honestly i do not believe reality to be consistent or partial at all.
In science we drop a ball and it falls down. There's no emotion, no faith. The roots of reality and of science are left out.
If i am angry at my mom, and drop a ball, i may see it fall straight ahead into her face. But we don't record that do we? Because it's inconsistent, it's subjective, it must be an illusion. Well that's sure one way to look at it.
Science takes faith. It shows us consistency, something to hold on to, but i don't believe it shows us truth. I have never really seen science as truth, rather as our convenient version of it. In that regard it only shows the truth we now believe in, but is limited to our coloration and can not show our capability of coloring. That only happens when we open our minds to more than science.
This way the world makes a lot of sense to me.
In that light, i don't understand people who don't want to see other people dwell away from scientific truth and embrace their fantasies. I am like the other way around. For example i actually envy Christians who are capable of believing they will go to heaven and would wish for that belief to spread as wide and deeply as can be.

I know science is cold, but that's the beauty of it. Many people think that non-religious people are imoral, because they generalise things. Religion involves morality, yes, but being religious is not necessary for being moral.

Science might even take faith, but it takes far less faith than anything else, because it is self explanatory. It is logical, so to say. You see the meaning behind it.



There are other things that can give your life meaning apart from religion. Learning, creating, making art.. Saying that believing i nscience makes one cold is a bad assumption.
Believing tha teher is no afterlife, that our life ends here, has a far more beautiful message of love than the one religion provides.

Religion is the one that provides a convenient explanation, not science. Actually, religion is the one to provide convenience: believing in something that makes us feel good.


If you accept a Christian to spread their beliefs, why don't you accept a naturalistic to spread his? That's pretty much biased i guess. Either you treat everyone equally, or you treat every single human being differently. Generalising is never a good idea.

The video is very convincing and offers a good explanation, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

I know science is cold, but that's the beauty of it. Many people think that non-religious people are imoral, because they generalise things. Religion involves morality, yes, but being religious is not necessary for being moral.

Science might even take faith, but it takes far less faith than anything else, because it is self explanatory. It is logical, so to say. You see the meaning behind it.



There are other things that can give your life meaning apart from religion. Learning, creating, making art.. Saying that believing i nscience makes one cold is a bad assumption.
Believing tha teher is no afterlife, that our life ends here, has a far more beautiful message of love than the one religion provides.

Religion is the one that provides a convenient explanation, not science. Actually, religion is the one to provide convenience: believing in something that makes us feel good.


If you accept a Christian to spread their beliefs, why don't you accept a naturalistic to spread his? That's pretty much biased i guess. Either you treat everyone equally, or you treat every single human being differently. Generalising is never a good idea.

I don't understand how certain religions aren't self explanatory. Aren't they all?
Now i never said believing in science makes someone cold. What i did mean to say is that i don't believe science covers the entire truth. It may one day do that, but i don't think that would be the best choice.

I also don't believe anything can beat a paradise, in terms of beauty or love. Science doesn't provide the ultimate fantasy.
And all sides provide convenient explanations. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. All i mean is that science doesn't have to be all there is to this world. And i would really like people to not limit themselves to one string of thoughts. I'm a very lazy person, i like convenient explanations a lot, and i don't see the point of delving deeper when a convenient, perhaps false, explanation gets You where You want to be.

Ow of course i'm biased. Who isn't? For example i would rather live with a promise of heaven than with a science that proves it wrong. This is a wild card; in my opinion the whole deal with existing is being biased. If i didn't have any bias, than what good am i? Sure my influence could be utilized by others, but there wouldn't be any room for me.
I wouldn't like a world without me.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

Oh yeah, you do?

Let's do some scientifical experiment then. I really think you don't see things that happened everytime you have (what you think to be) an OBE. It's like once in many, many occurances.

I'm am my body. My brain is my body, my thoughts are my body. It's all physical. What you call a soul is all just another great tool evolution gave us, which is consciousness.


If something cannot be proven by science in any way, high chances are it is false. There is a pink elephant behind you right now, but I can't prove it scientifically you know. You have to believe it yourself.

Thoughts are physical? For such a Science-Fan you sure suck at logics. So what does a thought look like? What's it feel like? How big is a tought? I mean, come on man; Have you ever caught and touched a Thought? Sounds like you are more delusional than all spiritualists together in a swimmingpool full of LSD.

Thoughts are abstract. The opposite of concrete. Please find a Dictionairy and read the defenition of Abstract. You have alot still to learn. The body is concrete as is the ground, the ocean and the sky, but the Mind, it's thoughts, dreams and emotions: Those are the ABSTRACTS of life. Scientists that are mentally blindfolded for the truth denie the possible existance of almost all the abstracts of life.

This is off course very stupid and by viewing reality in this narrow, determenistic way you can research till the end of days, but you're missing out on a HUUUUUGE part of what reality really is.

The brain and the mind: 2 completely different things. The one being a physical Organ, the other being an abstract mistery. It is only speculated that the brain "generates" the mind, but how Concrete, physical Material can turn into Abstract conscious spirit; no one knows. Scientists rather avoid the question which is why they are ...how would you say that... STUPID.
There is so much to be explored in the abstract realm of existance. All scientists need to do is get rid of their pre-assumptions and ignorance towards questionable, abstract matters in life and look into them without assumptions and with an open mind and curiosity. Instead they turn their back on these questions and, without any conclusive research, declare these matters "bullshit". How full of shit they are.

Be open for the Truth, whatever it may be.

Originally Posted by SKA

Thoughts are physical? For such a Science-Fan you sure suck at logics. So what does a thought look like? What's it feel like? How big is a tought? I mean, come on man; Have you ever caught and touched a Thought? Sounds like you are more delusional than all spiritualists together in a swimmingpool full of LSD.

Thoughts are abstract. The opposite of concrete. Please find a Dictionairy and read the defenition of Abstract. You have alot still to learn. The body is concrete as is the ground, the ocean and the sky, but the Mind, it's thoughts, dreams and emotions: Those are the ABSTRACTS of life. Scientists that are mentally blindfolded for the truth denie the possible existance of almost all the abstracts of life.

This is off course very stupid and by viewing reality in this narrow, determenistic way you can research till the end of days, but you're missing out on a HUUUUUGE part of what reality really is.

The brain and the mind: 2 completely different things. The one being a physical Organ, the other being an abstract mistery. It is only speculated that the brain "generates" the mind, but how Concrete, physical Material can turn into Abstract conscious spirit; no one knows. Scientists rather avoid the question which is why they are ...how would you say that... STUPID.
There is so much to be explored in the abstract realm of existance. All scientists need to do is get rid of their pre-assumptions and ignorance towards questionable, abstract matters in life and look into them without assumptions and with an open mind and curiosity. Instead they turn their back on these questions and, without any conclusive research, declare these matters "bullshit". How full of shit they are.

Be open for the Truth, whatever it may be.

I don't know if they're stupid, but yea, you're very right, thoughts and the mind are indeed different than the brain, the abstract representation of the tangeable or physical.

almost like this I guess, "brain" is to "mind" as "physical" is to "spiritual" as "hallucinations" might be to "NDEs" as the tangeable physical is to the abstract

I've seen that episode that doen't prove OBE's wrong it may say that some exeperiences are false, I mean if you tell someone to see somehting they will see it, it's just those people arn't used to telling their minds to do something so they have never done it and when they do it the first time, they someone think it's paranormal.

I personally don't believe in OBE's or NDE's because they are all too similar to dreams or hallucinations. Think about it, if you are religious and have say followed the bible most of your life and are a good person, you are expecting to get into what the religion calls heaven, now if you are about to die you may have accepted death and the most dominant thought is most likely going to be heaven and just like with a dream you can think about something before you go to bed and dream about it. Its similar and like they said with the brain being depreived of blood you will probably hallucinate or black out and to see such strange things would be normal, nothing paranormal or what not. Well thats my two cents on the video.

Originally Posted by Lucid Seeker

I personally don't believe in OBE's or NDE's because they are all too similar to dreams or hallucinations.

you're right. I am about positive they should be under the same category. But I tend to believe that dreams and hallucinations are, on some levels, of spiritual or religious significance. I have experienced very vague instances of prophetic dreaming, which I find just compelling enough to allow me to believe there might be such a thing, though I also have normal, meaningless dreams.