Thread: OOBE's proved wrong

What would prove OBEs wrong once and for all is selecting a random playing card, putting it down on a glass table, inducing one, and then looking under the table in your OBE to see what card it is. Wake up, and see what the card really was.

You only have a 1 in 52 chance of it being correct, because OBEs do not exist.

How do they explain OBEs which happen when the person isn't near death or nutrient deprived? All that does is prove that the brain is doing something while you're in that state, and that there's another way to induce a type of it. (Besides naturally being close to death, taking all kinds of drugs, sleeping, meditation, ect. )

So...if I can induce a certain state in a person one way, then any other way must not exist, right? Mkay. Well, since you can have an orgasm through masturbation, I guess intercourse doesn't exist! That's right! those people who say they can do it, they're just lying to you.


Also, I've seen a lot of these...people think that just because you zap the brain and trick it into thinking something, the real sensation doesn't exist.

Here, lemme zap your brain and make you hear voices. If I can do that, I've just proved that real sounds don't exist, amirite?!

See how the logic here is completely backwards?

Oh yeah, and...I like the show, but come on. It's not scientific. It's entertainment, like mythbusters. I've actually gone and done research papers on the subject. The best I can find is that scientists link OBE to a state of dissociation because they have similar descriptions and the same parts of the brain are active. It helps to explain things somewhat, but we're a long way from saying it's "fake" or the same as LD.

I mean in one episode, they "proved" that a hugely fat guy was more healthy than a fit guy because the fat guy could run faster. That doesn't define one's health.

The video's down

I am more than willing to believe in out-of-body experiences, but I think that the majority of the ones people refer to on here are simply dreams that they don't have a body. Not lucid dreams, because then they'd realize that that's all it was- a dream. I don't think it has a spiritual basis at all. The mind is clearly more amazing and capable of such things than we can imagine. My problem is being able to believe in something else over that relatively simple explanation. The minute that someone can induce an OBE or AP into my bedroom and tell me what is hidden under the crap on my shelf in my closet, well, I am going to convert into a huge fan of OBEs. It seems like this is a relatively simple task for APers or whatever people who induce/believe in OBEs call themselves, but if that's the case then why is there NO commonly-accepted peer-reviewed scientific evidence? (If I am incorrect please point me in the direction of these papers, I would love to read them) People would LOVE to be able to provide scientific evidence in favor of the soul, or the consciousness and concept-of-self not being a product of the brain. So I am skeptical.

It is easier for me to believe in Lucid Dreaming than OBE. Clearly the largest factor is that I've experienced it for myself. I've also experienced dreams in which I do not have a body, but I realize that these are dreams. Another reason I think Lucid Dreams are more believable than the concept of consciousness existing outside of the body (due to a soul or whatever), is that we "KNOW" that dreaming exists, nearly everyone experiences it, there is some (though not as much as I wish) science for it. Same goes for "consciousness", although people love to argue about what exactly that means. The fact is that the majority of us can say that we have a sense of self, a sense of awareness, however you define that "consciousness", during lucids that we don't experience in the majority of our dreams and that we also experience in real life. It is easy for me to believe that it is a matter of timing, that these two can coincide and that they are not mutually exclusive.

It is more of a stretch of the mind to think that your consciousness can exist without your brain, than to think that some neurons responsible for your consciousness can "wake up" while you are still in the dream state. So we know both those things are possible, it's just the timing that is unusual, that consciousness and dreaming can happen at the same time. But in the case of OBEs, well, yea... That's like debating that a car was on the railroad track when it got hit by a train (we know all these things exist, it's a matter of timing), versus a UFO flew down and levitated the car into the railroad track as the train was approaching. We don't have any proof of UFOs so that is much harder to buy into.

Meh, but I am hoping someone somewhere can prove me wrong. I would love for there to be another realm of experience for me to pursue.

It's much easier to believe LDing because it's been proven. Astral projection is something that just has to be accepted by faith.

Why don't they do the eye-movement experiments that Laberge did on people who claim they AP? If the eyes still move in a pattern, OBEs are an LD theme.

Originally Posted by mini0991

It's much easier to believe LDing because it's been proven. Astral projection is something that just has to be accepted by faith.

Why don't they do the eye-movement experiments that Laberge did on people who claim they AP? If the eyes still move in a pattern, OBEs are an LD theme.

Just have someone float next door and tell you what's in the other room. It's foolproof, it's irrefutable if it's not falsified. That's all I need. I don't believe in OBEs being more than anything but actually in your own head (a matter of perception, just like a dream) and not truly out of body, I am highly skeptical of AP. But it would be so simple!
I dunno, the LaBerge study needs to be duplicated a few times so it gains more merit. Most of the cognitive psychologists I've spoken to still don't buy into it.

Originally Posted by Shift

Just have someone float next door and tell you what's in the other room. It's foolproof, it's irrefutable if it's not falsified. That's all I need. I don't believe in OBEs being more than anything but actually in your own head (a matter of perception, just like a dream) and not truly out of body, I am highly skeptical of AP. But it would be so simple!
I dunno, the LaBerge study needs to be duplicated a few times so it gains more merit. Most of the cognitive psychologists I've spoken to still don't buy into it.

Exactly! AP is even easier to prove than LD, as easy to prove as proving that you can see what's in front of you. Yet this hasn't ever been done in a scientific setting, I wonder why......

Originally Posted by mini0991

What would prove OBEs wrong once and for all is selecting a random playing card, putting it down on a glass table, inducing one, and then looking under the table in your OBE to see what card it is. Wake up, and see what the card really was.

You only have a 1 in 52 chance of it being correct, because OBEs do not exist.

"It was this one"
"Wow, that is correct"
"It was this one"
"Wow, that is correct"
"It was this one"
"Wow, that is correct"
"It was this one"
"Wow, that is correct"
"It was this one"
"Wow, that is correct"
"It was this one"
"Wow, that is correct"


Couincidence, right?


What about shared dreams? reality we live in is pretty much a shared dream because it's all created by our brains and we are all connected to the same one (same illusion). Dreaming wont really be any different. Sure, it's memory you are falling back to, but you are still connected to everyone else, and see what everyone else see's unless you got some issues with your brain then you see things others can't see.