Mental World / Virtual Labratory

[Rivelli]

I guess this is for you advanced dreamers out there. I become lucid almost every time I go to sleep. I'm usually always conscious in one world or another. For me, I have a consistent mental world. Well consistent as I want it to be but I'm God in that world so changes are not so hard. My mental world and visualizations while I'm awake for that matter are just as real looking as the real world. The only difference between LD and visualizations is that while I am lucid dreaming, I am in my 'mental body' which feels just as real as my real body. When I am visualizing, I see my mental world just the same but I am in my reality body. I am a very passionate ambitious person in regards to my career, learning and finding higher truths. My field is in Software Engineering / Info Security / Mathematics / Theoretical Physics. Usually, I use this laboratory in my mental world to conduct experiments and build things. When I let an experiment run and leave it, it will run in my unconscious so I can return later to find bugs or other issues to fix. I never forget anything I do in that world, never. So I prefer not to use, drawings, blueprints or other such documentation until I absolutely have to. I can work so much faster mentally, not to mention that equipment and other resources cost less. There is a tremendous economic incentive. Are there any others that problem solve / experiment / think this way? I feel LD / visualization should be used also in a very productive learning way as well as the fun stuff. Perhaps luckily for me, the fun stuff and the learning stuff is one and the same. I'm sure there are at least a few others.

[imj]

I can't help but think that your/anyone's ability to LD regularly has to do with lifestyle. Your career involves logical analysis which my guess is stimulates the dreaming mind as well so you get lucid easily. As compared to someone.....no offence I am one of them, who leads a passive life and has little logical thought patterns during the day, just go with the flow. I think this makes LDing difficult as the dreaming mind is not stimulated by the waking mind enough to be lucid that easily. IMJ

[drewmandan]

I guess this is for you advanced dreamers out there. I become lucid almost every time I go to sleep. I'm usually always conscious in one world or another. For me, I have a consistent mental world. Well consistent as I want it to be but I'm God in that world so changes are not so hard. My mental world and visualizations while I'm awake for that matter are just as real looking as the real world. The only difference between LD and visualizations is that while I am lucid dreaming, I am in my 'mental body' which feels just as real as my real body. When I am visualizing, I see my mental world just the same but I am in my reality body. I am a very passionate ambitious person in regards to my career, learning and finding higher truths. My field is in Software Engineering / Info Security / Mathematics / Theoretical Physics. Usually, I use this laboratory in my mental world to conduct experiments and build things. When I let an experiment run and leave it, it will run in my unconscious so I can return later to find bugs or other issues to fix. I never forget anything I do in that world, never. So I prefer not to use, drawings, blueprints or other such documentation until I absolutely have to. I can work so much faster mentally, not to mention that equipment and other resources cost less. There is a tremendous economic incentive. Are there any others that problem solve / experiment / think this way? I feel LD / visualization should be used also in a very productive learning way as well as the fun stuff. Perhaps luckily for me, the fun stuff and the learning stuff is one and the same. I'm sure there are at least a few others. Bullshit. Sorry, but there's no way you have a career in both information security and theoretical physics.

[Rivelli]

You say that as if there is some contradiction there. Have you ever heard of Quantum Computing and Quantum Informatoin Security? Suffice it to say, you need to know both. The majority of my work is standard development and vulnerability research at the moment. I am currently in the process of building a better understanding in the quantum computer / quantum info security area as well where I plan to innovate. It is in this area where I do many 'experiments'. You know what? I do many experiments regarding everything I do in my work. That's the point of this topic though. I don't conduct the experiments in MIT's lab, I do it in my lucid dreams and visualizations. I was asking if there are any others. Be a skeptic if you want, I'll take that as a "No."

[Captain Sleepalot]

It is my goal to be able to do such consistent "work" while lucid (I am in the process of finding a way that works for me to be lucid consistently while dreaming), but I tend to think that for me it would be for artistic pursuits rather than scientific experimentation. I do have an interest in science but don't know enough to conduct any meaningful experiments at this time, in real life or in dream. I would, however, find it interesting to create a large art studio in which I could work on many different projects, in visualizations and lucid dreams, over periods of time. Paintings, sculptures and even animated media would be interesting to create and be able to come back to in successive dreams.

[Rivelli]

Go for it buddy! I'm just glad to see more people using this for their careers, regardless of the field. I know you'll do great as long as you stick with it. Especially for artistic pursuits. Ive seen some pretty interesting things in my world so I know if you focus on the art side of it, you would definately do some amazing work if you put your mind to it. I am a little bit of an artist as well in my own private way. I do a lot of programming / software development and in my mental world, I literally see it 'processing' to get to the end result. It's hard to describe but it is a lot easier to simply point you do this program on the net called Processing. Think of it as a way to create art with source code. http://processing.org/ Processing is an open source programming language and environment for people who want to program images, animation, and interactions. It is used by students, artists, designers, researchers, and hobbyists for learning, prototyping, and production. It is created to teach fundamentals of computer programming within a visual context and to serve as a software sketchbook and professional production tool. Processing is an alternative to proprietary software tools in the same domain. One of my favorite videos that was made with processing is called Music is Math: http://www.vimeo.com/1473977 Good luck!

[Forsaken]

The way you describe your visualization power, and how much better it works for you than paper/computer modeling reminds me of what I've read about Nikola Tesla. I've read that he would design and test even complex machines entirely in his mind before ever putting pen to paper or building a thing for real. Also sometimes saw his internal imagery projected into the real world, much as you have described, and even the persistent world and people within that he said were as real as reality to him. Maybe we're starting to see the next evolution of the human mind! I am genuinely jealous.

[Rivelli]

I'm not sure about evolution. Funny idea though. I just got a flash of the Tomorrow People. "The Next Stage in Human Evolution." They could teleport. It was a series on Nickelodeon in the 90's. If anything, I would think that people were more visual millions of years ago before there was speech. The more humanity uses words to communicate, the more they think in it and as such, the brain developes accordingly. I feel my brain just developed a little differently than normal. Specifically, my left-hemisphere was underdeveloped when I was young and my right-hemisphere overdeveloped taking more of a workload than normal. I was weak with verbal abilities and such and put me in RSP. I'm also left handed which goes with the right-hemisphere dominance. Later, I feel my left hemisphere finished developing just fine. It was just a little slower than normal. As such, my verbal skills improved and they took me out of RSP. It is because of that, that I believe is the cause of my different brainmapping. Everything said to me and everything I say is translated to and from pictures. I must stress, I feel anyone can develope the cognitive preferences they want. It just takes enough motivation and obsessive like habbits to break the thinking in words habbit. I would recommend reading 'The Brain that Chagnes itself by Normin Doige'. A quick tip based on that book is to use the rule: What fires together, wires together. That if neurons fire at the same time, they wire together. So perhaps try picturing whatever is said? It's exactly what I get but it's currently on manual. In time it will become automatic. It is the same with the other cognitive preferences you desire. In regards to the visualization quality, keep consistantly working on that as well. Think of it as a mental workout. You need to consistently be obsessive about it though till it happens which could be a while. I must say that Tesla is a hero of mine because of our common traits and what his accomplishments are. Don't be jealuous though, especially when I don't deserve it. I do seriously expect to do something important in the next 3-10 years but I don't deserve anything until then.

[Maeni]

Holy crap. Give me your brain. Ok, I need to practice my visualization. Infact, I took your advice, and I'm picturing everything I write now, and everything you wrote :] Thanks for it, it was a good read. Also, I believe you can do some pretty fantastic things with that skill, good luck with whatever you're going to try to accomplish with it.

[ChaybaChayba]

The way you describe your visualization power, and how much better it works for you than paper/computer modeling reminds me of what I've read about Nikola Tesla. I've read that he would design and test even complex machines entirely in his mind before ever putting pen to paper or building a thing for real. Also sometimes saw his internal imagery projected into the real world, much as you have described, and even the persistent world and people within that he said were as real as reality to him. Maybe we're starting to see the next evolution of the human mind! I am genuinely jealous. Yeah same here, also read about it first in Nikola Teslas work and thats why I picked up lucid dreaming. And yeah most likely lucid dreaming is indeed the next step in evolution. It's like a way to unlock your imagination and take full control of all your mental power. Anyway, very nice to read about your mental laboratory, can't wait until I get at that point to, this was my goal when I started lucid dreaming.

[Bonsay]

Hi, Do you only do your experiments in the LDs. If you do, can you change it during the day? I'm also interested about how "real" your daytime visualizations are. Are they so strong that you can practically call them hallucinations or is it all happening in your mind? Of course I can't know for sure, but I believe that I'm not that bad at visualization. It's all I know so I can't really compare, or measure my proficiency. The same goes for imagining touch, sound and taste. The smell is a bit harder and I rarely succeed. Although I've never tried an experiment only in my mind, for some reason, I don't think I'd work quite well. I don't know what kind of experiments you or Tesla did, but I find it quite incredible that you can get credible imaginary results which can be compared to real world ones (If you didn't, why would you still be doing it?). So is there a simple way you could explain one of your mental experiments? Thanks! Oh and I don't have many LDs. That or I don't remember them. The former is more likely, I just dream normal crazy dreams.

[Hukif]

Oh I like to test/solve/experiment with things/problems on lucids so I have a better understanding of them, of course I'm so lazy to just go there and read/test/experiment it the normal way, so its pretty much doing the test while having those crazy fights of mine <.< Funny enough, my vizualisation is horrible... it has started to change lately tough.

[Rivelli]

Hi, Do you only do your experiments in the LDs. If you do, can you change it during the day? I'm also interested about how "real" your daytime visualizations are. Are they so strong that you can practically call them hallucinations or is it all happening in your mind? Of course I can't know for sure, but I believe that I'm not that bad at visualization. It's all I know so I can't really compare, or measure my proficiency. The same goes for imagining touch, sound and taste. The smell is a bit harder and I rarely succeed. Although I've never tried an experiment only in my mind, for some reason, I don't think I'd work quite well. I don't know what kind of experiments you or Tesla did, but I find it quite incredible that you can get credible imaginary results which can be compared to real world ones (If you didn't, why would you still be doing it?). So is there a simple way you could explain one of your mental experiments? Thanks! Oh and I don't have many LDs. That or I don't remember them. The former is more likely, I just dream normal crazy dreams. Visualizations and lucid dreams are the same for me except when lucid, I am in my mental body and when visualizing while awake, I am in my normal body. I can do experiments while awake as well but I cannot touch them during that time. I can only touch it while in my mental body. I could visualize my mental body touching it but I'm not in my mental body. It's not the same. The only thing I could call hallucinations would be the projected visuals that look as though they are in the real world. The mental world / laboratory stuff is in my mind. It would be great if people could compare. Somehow plug their minds eye into a projector or something. I get the feeling we are heading that way soon enough. One of my greatest weaknesses is describing my visual thoughts verbally. My weakness in general is verbal stuff. I would be a bad lawyer, politician, debater and whatnot. Tesla built up many machines to run electricity in his head. Part by part, till it was completed. Similarly, I do the same thing with software and various areas of math. I read source code / equations and see a picture. Whether it is the GUI part of the software, or completely under the computer hood as the software is processing, I see it all. The best way to see what I'm talking about in regards to that is to lookup the processing program I mentioned above. The processing program will give you an idea but what I see is a lot more complicated. So, I modify the picture as needed and when it's ready and only when it's ready I translate that back into the source code / math equations. Ive been focusing on security. In my experience, the sloppier the general layout of the program looks, the more vulnerable it is. In my mental world, I can physically hold and move around the different pieces of software. When awake, I can still move it around as needed but I can't touch it.

[Captain Sleepalot]

Thanks for that link to the Processing software, I am always interested in open source apps like that...I'll give it a try and see if I can make anything meaningful with it. I am going to be practicing my visualization ability also; a while ago I had actually discovered on my own the usefulness of visualizing things as I hear them or read them but haven't really worked on it obsessively as you suggest. I'll be doing that though because I really want to develop that sort of vivid quality in my visualizations.

[Bonsay]

Visualizations and lucid dreams are the same for me except when lucid, I am in my mental body and when visualizing while awake, I am in my normal body. I can do experiments while awake as well but I cannot touch them during that time. I can only touch it while in my mental body. I could visualize my mental body touching it but I'm not in my mental body. It's not the same. The only thing I could call hallucinations would be the projected visuals that look as though they are in the real world. The mental world / laboratory stuff is in my mind. It would be great if people could compare. Somehow plug their minds eye into a projector or something. I get the feeling we are heading that way soon enough. One of my greatest weaknesses is describing my visual thoughts verbally. My weakness in general is verbal stuff. I would be a bad lawyer, politician, debater and whatnot. Tesla built up many machines to run electricity in his head. Part by part, till it was completed. Similarly, I do the same thing with software and various areas of math. I read source code / equations and see a picture. Whether it is the GUI part of the software, or completely under the computer hood as the software is processing, I see it all. The best way to see what I'm talking about in regards to that is to lookup the processing program I mentioned above. The processing program will give you an idea but what I see is a lot more complicated. So, I modify the picture as needed and when it's ready and only when it's ready I translate that back into the source code / math equations. Ive been focusing on security. In my experience, the sloppier the general layout of the program looks, the more vulnerable it is. In my mental world, I can physically hold and move around the different pieces of software. When awake, I can still move it around as needed but I can't touch it. Very interesting. As I said, I'm very good at visualizing. But I've never been able to actually hallucinate it. It all stays in my "minds eye". I've tried hallucinating simple objects with my eyes closed, but all I got were inconclusive results, since I get a sort of hypnagogic imagery right after I close my eyes. I haven't really stopped experimenting with the whole thing though. It's the same with me regarding language skills. They are pathetic. Well not that bad, but forming sentences, using and sometimes even remembering names (or any words) is the problem. I usually get through anywhere from one to five different versions of sentences before deciding on keeping a certain version. It's all very time consuming, not to mention when I try to actually say something. I've gotten used to it anyway. The question I wanted to ask you (sorry for too many questions) is when did you get these "abilities". You already said that you were always a visual type, but you obviously wasn't born as a software engineer. So when did you find out that you could "hallucinate" something, control your dreams and conduct such experiments?