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    Thread: Lucidity via Computer Games

    1. #1
      Overseer of oneirons Phantasos's Avatar
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      Lucidity via Computer Games

      I would like to present a new method for getting lucid in dreams which (according to preliminary tests) appears to be quite powerful and (which is one of its strongest points) fun.

      Short history

      One guy (lets call him Albert) who works at some Russian univercity had a coversation with a student who was worried that his dreams becamevery strange lately: very vivid and in half of cases he knew he was dreaming. Apparently, the student was unaware about phenomenon of Lucid Dreaming but Albert did. He investigated this issue, and it was found that the student is hardcore gamer, and his strange dreams started after a day when he was trying to complete hard level of Doom 3 with Russian sounds. At some point woman's voice was saying: "Life is just a dream". As the level was hard he had to listen to it multiple times. Combining with intense gameplay, it seems that this suggestions struck his subconscious mind.

      So Albert and other fellow dreamers made some research, did some experiments, shaped the method, and now you can also try it.

      The method

      You will need next things:

      • Mp3 player with voice recorder
      • Headphones
      • Some 3D-game. Personally I used Painkiller.

      When you have aforementioned things, you need to record several sentences which would indicate that you are dreaming. You should talk confident and maybe little aggressive. Here is a list of some sentences you can use:

      • I AM SURE IT IS A DREAM
      • I KNOW IT IS A DREAM
      • COULD IT BE REAL? IT IS A DREAM!
      • MY WILL HERE IS THE LAW
      • i CAN DO HERE WHATEVER I WISH
      • LOOK, EVERYTHING AROUND IS A DREAM!

      It may be worth to separate sentences with 5 or so seconds of silence.

      As soon as you have recorded it, you are ready to start the training itself, which is actually consist of playing chosen game and hearing to recorded suggestions at the same time.

      After some time you may found that you are perceiving the game as a dream (hard to explain). This feeling is what we need. In this moments if game allows (no scary monsters around) you should try to enjoy the game as it was a dream: for example, just look and walk around, enjoy sights and buildings.

      How it works

      First, 3D computer game is very close to a dream. We have here "unreal" environment, the plot which is similar to dream plot and within which gamer/dreamers acts. So the idea is that if we implant the suggestion that this is a dream, and suggestions about what do we need to do in a dream, there is a big chance it will work for actual dreams as well.

      Second, the intense gameplay when you, say, killing hundreds of monsters at fast rate, provide trance-like state when all this suggestions easily slip to subconsciousness.

      Schedule

      Recommended schedule is a weel of "training" (from hour to three, maybe even more - depends on how much time is your disposal), a week of rest.

      Conclusion

      Hopefully, it will be usefull for someone. If you try this method, please write hear your experience: how you dreams and recall are changing, if you were able to get lucid and so forth.

      P.S. I've had successfully tried this tech for a week (currently doing second one) but I would like not to spoil and form expections for now.

    2. #2
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      Wow that sounds like it could work!I'll try it when school ends.

      I've had several dreams about games without even playing that much,and i've also noted,like you said,that we can get in a trance state when playing.

      I'll try it with Bioshock
      Last edited by Epic Altruist; 09-29-2009 at 10:54 PM. Reason: typo

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      Quote Originally Posted by Phantasos View Post
      ...new method for getting lucid in dreams which (according to preliminary tests) appears to be quite powerful...
      ...So Albert and other fellow dreamers made some research, did some experiments, shaped the method, and now you can also try it...
      Source? If they've had success, then this hardly needs more research except perhaps to validate it. Who is Albert and where did you hear this story?

      You haven't included any controls in your method.

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      This sounds like it could work, because when you become more immersed into the game, the saying can get deeper into your subconscious.

      But what do I know anyway?

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      Quote Originally Posted by Shift View Post
      Source? If they've had success, then this hardly needs more research except perhaps to validate it. Who is Albert and where did you hear this story?
      I thought the same while reading. If the method works, then why all the secrecy?

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      Overseer of oneirons Phantasos's Avatar
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      Well, there is no any secrecy . You can read this 8-page discussion on this method including the full story behind this method including Albert's experiments, his collegues, mine and other guys from forum. The problem is that it is too much to translate it all to English, so I just wrote essentials, so everyone who wish could check this method themselves.

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      If you're considering forwarding data to Albert Omkelonsky, it's considered proper and a requirement of all participants that you make them fully aware of how it will be used and that they consent for you to do any such thing before they participate.

      He claims a 95% success rate. Really wish I could understand it better to get an idea of the controls he used and whether or not they looked into the dream recall of the person. You've gotta figure that spending that much time and energy is going to work even if you don't overlay the track. Besides, it's great to say 95%, but 95% of dreams you woke yourself up from and thus remembered? Like I said, wish I could understand it better

      You description seems to have left out one of the critical components:

      (Assuming) You'll dream about a game if you're emotionally tied up in it and spend enough time playing, by simply adding a phrase along the lines of "This is a dream!" you'll cause yourself to be much more critical and observant of what's around you and to doubt the reality around you, thus recognizing the dream state. From what I'm understanding the guy says it has to be an encompassing three-dimensional game, with enough variables that you become so into the game play that you forget about reality, and that you become emotionally involved in the game. The voice should also be very emotional and powerful, perhaps ordering you but certainly strong enough that it will stand out above the rest of the game.

      He also points out that the game doesn't have to be frightening or like a first person shooter or anything like that, it just has to be a 3D game that you can get really into. I think that's important to point out because the games mentioned are all kind of creepy and involve shooting insanely aggressive opponents who are trying to slaughter you, but this doesn't have to be the case, and using games that are lighter will probably make it easier to have dream control and give you time to stabilize your dream since you probably won't be so incredibly freaked out to see zombies and shit running at you (although... that would be awesome!)

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      How much time would such a method work and how would you make sure that you dream of the game? Besides, games get dreamt of only in the beginning, once you're used to the game you won't dream of it. That should be quite a short-timed method.

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      Tonight I will play superman allllllll night.

      I will probably only try this a maximum of 2 times. Unless I happen to end up on superman all night some other time.

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      makes me wish i still played WoW

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      Is there anyway i could get one of these sound clips on to my ipod touch and have the earplugs in my ears while i play a game like farcry 2 for example, would it still work?

      Once i did have a dream when i was inside far cry 2, but i did not go lucid.

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      Metaphysical Lab-Rat Nam3less One's Avatar
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      This method interested me quite a bit last night.

      I ended up creating my own variation of the recording concept. Being the Sound Engineer that I am, I decided to fuse some meditation music with it; specifically that of Brainwave Mind Voyage's Solfeggio Healing Frequencies (harmonic matrix), and Hemi-Sync's Lucid Dreaming series (just the sound by itself. no commentary). I recorded my voice OVER the mix, and then put the final track on my MP3 player. I figured the sounds would assist in the process.

      A good free 3D game would be Sauerbraten, based on the Cube II graphics engine: http://sauerbraten.org/. ... While this game is probably not as great as any advertised game (and maybe not very emotional), it gives you the ability to edit levels easily and in realtime simply using the mouse (and keyboard). If you master editing levels (and are willing to spend the time), you can create an example 3D world that you could zone out to while you explore it. It might just be easier to choose one of the levels already made, and simply edit it on your own, if you feel like it.

      But I was doing a bit of this last night. I realized that listening to the background music on the recording itself was a bit of hypnotizing on its own,... so I figure I would share my monster creation with you. =P (Note: I claim no rights over this, given it is just a fusion of commercial meditation tracks.)... http://www.mediafire.com/file/nd3xet...Dreamscape.mp3 ... Won't sound impressive at first, but it made me a bit sleepy after listening to it for 30 seconds. Just take the above mp3, and see if you can record over it with a microphone. I prefer using Audacity as an easy-to-use, free sound recording software. I also prefer listening to your finished creaiton on high quality headphones/studio headphones (not earbuds).

      If quality becomes super important, I might link a high quality WAV file of the mix instead.
      ...

      I had a bit of luck with this last night in fact. Had a pretty distinct dream,... something about revisiting places in my childhood,... and I had a moment of clarity where I started wondering if it was a dream. Was not sucessful in breaking that barrier, but it was rather close, I feel. This was just after one night of using this method.

      ...

      Great idea BTW! Now I don't have to dive out of my comfort level to increase my chances of LDing. XD
      Last edited by Nam3less One; 12-31-2009 at 07:59 PM.

      What has my unconscious been up to lately? See my Dream Journal HERE! =)

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      Use Saints' Row 2.
      Almost limitless sandbox gameplay where you aren't bound by a realistic physics engine xD
      You're not an astronaut.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Epic Altruist View Post
      Wow that sounds like it could work!I'll try it when school ends.

      I've had several dreams about games without even playing that much,and i've also noted,like you said,that we can get in a trance state when playing.

      I'll try it with Bioshock
      Bioshock is way too creepy to be dreaming about

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      After reading your thread and playing guitar hero, i had an idea. I know that people are capable of putting custom songs on guitar hero or frets on fire. When you are playing a difficult song, it is very easy to be in a trance like state. So why not implant lucid dreaming suggestions into a song. As long as it is a song that is within your ability, but is still challenging; this should be a really good method of implanting a lucid dreaming suggestion. Frets on fire is for the computer and it is free; so it would probably be the most widely available method. As a plus, with frets on fire, you can use headphones, since it is on your computer. I think there is also a guitar hero III for pc too, but frets on fire is more likely to work on computers with less processing power and ram. You can use a guitar hero guitar, but you have to have a method of getting your computer to recognize it. At the least, you can use your keyboard, but it is more difficult and not near as fun (especially if you are using a lap top). Frets on fire uses .ogg files for music. If you have audacity, which is also free, you can edit the song. All you would have to do is use a mic to put the lucid dreaming suggestions in with the song. Then export the song (as .ogg) and replace the original song with your edited one. Then you're ready to rock!

      When i first got frets on fire, i found it difficult to follow the notes because i was used to guitar hero. After putting a guitar hero III mod on it, it was much easier for me to follow.

      I haven't tried this yet, but i think it should work pretty well. Like i said, if you try this and use frets on fire, i would suggest using some kind of mod on it to make it easier to follow. Anyway, do you think this is a good idea?

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      Retired Post Whore-73PPD jarrhead's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by dark_grimmjow View Post
      After reading your thread and playing guitar hero, i had an idea. I know that people are capable of putting custom songs on guitar hero or frets on fire. When you are playing a difficult song, it is very easy to be in a trance like state. So why not implant lucid dreaming suggestions into a song. As long as it is a song that is within your ability, but is still challenging; this should be a really good method of implanting a lucid dreaming suggestion. Frets on fire is for the computer and it is free; so it would probably be the most widely available method. As a plus, with frets on fire, you can use headphones, since it is on your computer. I think there is also a guitar hero III for pc too, but frets on fire is more likely to work on computers with less processing power and ram. You can use a guitar hero guitar, but you have to have a method of getting your computer to recognize it. At the least, you can use your keyboard, but it is more difficult and not near as fun (especially if you are using a lap top). Frets on fire uses .ogg files for music. If you have audacity, which is also free, you can edit the song. All you would have to do is use a mic to put the lucid dreaming suggestions in with the song. Then export the song (as .ogg) and replace the original song with your edited one. Then you're ready to rock!

      When i first got frets on fire, i found it difficult to follow the notes because i was used to guitar hero. After putting a guitar hero III mod on it, it was much easier for me to follow.

      I haven't tried this yet, but i think it should work pretty well. Like i said, if you try this and use frets on fire, i would suggest using some kind of mod on it to make it easier to follow. Anyway, do you think this is a good idea?

      Well hey man, i'm not trying to brag, but I really want to try this out.

      I just can't find a bass riff that's hard for me anymore. I can play things like this:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHPhy...eature=related
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF5ACdEP9eg
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96Gq0S1m44s

      (the 2nd/3rd get more challenging as you go in)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFtkR61YprY


      Do you know of any songs that can really challenge me? I played for about 6 hours a day for the past year so I have well over 1000 hours of practice time in. Maybe any hard jazz songs you know?

    17. #17
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      Bright idea.

      I think I might use GTA: Episodes from Liberty City for this purpose.
      It is very similair to the average dream enviroment: Totally sandbox, Downtown city life, some nature, people, large bodies of water, weather changes: realistic, yet slightly surreal.

      I noticerd before that gaming intensively for extended periods of time is close to brainwashing, yet visually rather than mentally. I noticed after playing CoD;Modern Warfare 2 non-stop for far too long that when I'd close my eyes I'd see in-game visuals all the time. I would see buildings and armed men running around. Also when walking the streets to go to the grocery store I would see CoD:MW2 characters run away in my peripheral vision as well as Grenade -warning icons. And like we sometimes "hear a song in our head" I would hear Modern Warfare 2 voiceovers like "Granata!' and "Tango Sakha!" in the back of my mind all the time.

      So basically I had played the game so long + extreme concentration + sleep deprivation that visually and auditively this game became engrained into my mind.


      If only some game developers would create a sandbox game about Lucid Dreaming.
      Untill then I'll use my imagination to imagine GTA: EfLB is a dreamworld.
      Luminous Spacious Dream Masters That Holographically Communicate
      among other teachers taught me

      not to overestimate the Value of our Concrete Knowledge;"Common sense"/Rationality,
      for doing so would make us Blind for the unimaginable, unparalleled Capacity of and Wisdom contained within our Felt Knowledge;Subconscious Intuition.

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      Quote Originally Posted by SKA View Post
      Bright idea.

      I think I might use GTA: Episodes from Liberty City for this purpose.
      It is very similair to the average dream enviroment: Totally sandbox, Downtown city life, some nature, people, large bodies of water, weather changes: realistic, yet slightly surreal.

      I noticerd before that gaming intensively for extended periods of time is close to brainwashing, yet visually rather than mentally. I noticed after playing CoD;Modern Warfare 2 non-stop for far too long that when I'd close my eyes I'd see in-game visuals all the time. I would see buildings and armed men running around. Also when walking the streets to go to the grocery store I would see CoD:MW2 characters run away in my peripheral vision as well as Grenade -warning icons. And like we sometimes "hear a song in our head" I would hear Modern Warfare 2 voiceovers like "Granata!' and "Tango Sakha!" in the back of my mind all the time.

      So basically I had played the game so long + extreme concentration + sleep deprivation that visually and auditively this game became engrained into my mind.


      If only some game developers would create a sandbox game about Lucid Dreaming.
      Untill then I'll use my imagination to imagine GTA: EfLB is a dreamworld.
      Untill that happens we'll have to use the games already created. I'll make list of games that should help tommorow, too tired today .
      P.S. I haven't played for so long to have such effects like you have.
      Last edited by Kangaxx; 01-04-2010 at 08:20 PM.

    19. #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by jarrhead View Post
      Well hey man, i'm not trying to brag, but I really want to try this out.

      I just can't find a bass riff that's hard for me anymore. I can play things like this:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHPhy...eature=related
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF5ACdEP9eg
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96Gq0S1m44s

      (the 2nd/3rd get more challenging as you go in)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFtkR61YprY


      Do you know of any songs that can really challenge me? I played for about 6 hours a day for the past year so I have well over 1000 hours of practice time in. Maybe any hard jazz songs you know?
      I'm confused. Are you talking about playing a real bass riff on a bass guitar? I meant playing guitar hero or frets on fire. Something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLFlwfpcIo8

      You just edit the song file so that your lucid dreaming suggestions are in it. I notice that if i'm playing a hard long song that i end up in a kind of trance. I've noticed that if i've been playing for a while and i look away, things look like they float or fluctuate. Like if you watch one of these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBL4hRoqRWY The way the notes flow down the screen is kind of entrancing don't you think. It involves a lot of concentration too. So any suggestions should be well implanted.
      Last edited by dark_grimmjow; 01-04-2010 at 09:10 PM.

    20. #20
      Retired Post Whore-73PPD jarrhead's Avatar
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      Well I don't have guitar hero.

      Can you put that video to loop in the background of your notes?

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      Member Kangaxx's Avatar
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      Okay here's the list i promised:

      Note: Only play the games if you're a stubborn bitch that can continue playing after dieing a million of times.

      Ninja Gaiden series (XBOX, fighting game. Death is a guarantee, considered the hardest game of all time.)
      Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening (PS2, Special Edition is available on PC, but it's a lot easier. Fighting game. It might just kill you on Dante Must Die difficulty.).
      Lord of the Rings: Battle for Middle-Earth II (Only hard if you put opponents on brutal, which will rape sauce out of you. PC. Strategy game.).
      Portal (PC, beginnings will be easy, later stages will fry your brains. And the cake is a lie. Puzzle game.).
      Mushihimesama Futari (???, it's a japanese game, i doubt you'll get to play it, but if you do be prepared to pay anger management class.)
      Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (PC, some may disagree, but Veteran difficulty will give the feeling of a real battlefield.)
      Contra franchise (Scattered through everywhere, a legendary game for those who want a challenge. Shooter game. Be prepared for a manly one.).
      God of War (PS2, easy difficulty - cakewalk. God difficulty - bleeding eyes. Not tested, based on people's opinions.)
      Ikaruga (XBOX 360, i haven't tested it but people with me good luck when i say i want to play it).
      Some of them aren't 3D, but should get you playing them forever if you're stubborn enough. I recommend downloading the newest patch for DMC 3, it strengthens the bosses (talkin' bout the PC version).
      Last edited by Kangaxx; 01-05-2010 at 10:30 AM.

    22. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by SKA View Post
      Bright idea.

      I think I might use GTA: Episodes from Liberty City for this purpose.
      It is very similair to the average dream enviroment: Totally sandbox, Downtown city life, some nature, people, large bodies of water, weather changes: realistic, yet slightly surreal.

      I noticerd before that gaming intensively for extended periods of time is close to brainwashing, yet visually rather than mentally. I noticed after playing CoD;Modern Warfare 2 non-stop for far too long that when I'd close my eyes I'd see in-game visuals all the time. I would see buildings and armed men running around. Also when walking the streets to go to the grocery store I would see CoD:MW2 characters run away in my peripheral vision as well as Grenade -warning icons. And like we sometimes "hear a song in our head" I would hear Modern Warfare 2 voiceovers like "Granata!' and "Tango Sakha!" in the back of my mind all the time.

      So basically I had played the game so long + extreme concentration + sleep deprivation that visually and auditively this game became engrained into my mind.


      If only some game developers would create a sandbox game about Lucid Dreaming.
      Untill then I'll use my imagination to imagine GTA: EfLB is a dreamworld.
      That's the game i was gonna suggest!, imma try it too, sounds very interesting...

      I think GTA is realistic enough to make the trick!
      Talk to a dream character (X), Have a shared dream and go to the moon ( ), Go to the Bottom of the ocean in an Astral Projection ( ), Meet my higher self or a higher anything!! ( )...



    23. #23
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      I am a HUGE fan of Computer games - Playing doom and helping to get a LD - sounds like a DREAM to me (PS. Do a reality check NOW!)

      I know i sound crazy - but i dont have a microphone or any sort of recording device even though i love technology!!!!!

      Would anyone mind linking a mp3?

      The only thing I have is an xbox 360 voice headset...
      Last edited by oowa; 01-14-2010 at 10:15 AM.
      Wish me luck on getting my next lucid!


    24. #24
      Some Insane Bitch ReachingForTheDream's Avatar
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      I suppose I should start linking video games to dreaming. I think like 9/10 of my dreams have something to do with video games O.o
      Lolwut.

    25. #25
      Retired Post Whore-73PPD jarrhead's Avatar
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      Same here, reaching. ALWAYS a call of duty or assasin's creed reference.

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