Thread: Magic

What do you think of Magic?

Either what is it, or why do people believe it?

Are you talking about magic as an illusion that people use for fun and entertainment? Or magic as in doing some vague ritual and hoping for random coincidences to favor you?

The first one I love, and I think magic is cool. The second I think are just what I said, random coincidences. I think people believe in magic for the same reasons they believe in things like praying. Which is that they falsely contribute random coincidence, to be a result of their direct actions.

Originally Posted by Alric

Are you talking about magic as an illusion that people use for fun and entertainment?

.. Or Magic the Gathering?

I'm talking about ritual magic. Not stage magic. If I were talking about stage magic, I'd probably post this somewhere other than Inner Sanctum.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

I'm talking about ritual magic. Not stage magic. If I were talking about stage magic, I'd probably post this somewhere other than Inner Sanctum.

Then perhaps you should have used the archaic version of the word that occultists use which differentiates the two. Magick with a k

And I am a magician by the way

Originally Posted by mcwillis

Then perhaps you should have used the archaic version of the word that occultists use which differentiates the two. Magick with a k

And I am a magician by the way

Nah, sounds too nerdy

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

Nah, sounds too nerdy

I can't see why you think that. Each to their own I suppose. I could do a spell to change your mind. Only joking, I would never infringe your free will like that.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

I can't see why you think that. Each to their own I suppose. I could do a spell to change your mind. Only joking, I would never infringe your free will like that.

Because you couldn't. How long have you been studying "magick" and what do you study?

I think that magic is awesome. Much like prayer, it depends on who's doing it, what they're doing it for and how it's done.

Magic works if you believe in it and you don't try to do something physically impossible. Just like prayer and that old fad, "the Secret", it relies on the power of positive thinking.

Originally Posted by cmind

Magic works if you believe in it and you don't try to do something physically impossible.

What is magic if not something that is physically impossible?

No, you could not. Nothing you do can directly counter the power of my freewill, except tricking me into thinking I am acting of my own free will when I'm not.

Anyways, would you care to show me some resources you favor?

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

No, you could not. Nothing you do can directly counter the power of my freewill, except tricking me into thinking I am acting of my own free will when I'm not.

I could make you change your mind, or as you put it, make you believe that you had come to a change in opinion all by yourself. I would have to spend an hour a day on the process and it shouldn't take longer than a week to complete. As I have said I would not do this to you. It is a technique I use on extremely rare occassions.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

Anyways, would you care to show me some resources you favor?

I would be glad too. Im rather busy today, but I will have a think about it and come back as magick is a very broad, deep and mysterious subject.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

I could make you change your mind, or as you put it, make you believe that you had come to a change in opinion all by yourself. I would have to spend an hour a day on the process and it shouldn't take longer than a week to complete. As I have said I would not do this to you. It is a technique I use on extremely rare occassions.

But you already started this particular discussion by challenging the power of my freewill, so it would be impossible at this point because I'm going to use the word Magic just to spite you. There was definitely a chance that I could have been convinced to start using the word Magick in order to avoid confusion with Stage Magic, but that chance is shot now because of my stubborn nature and intrinsic need for self-volition.

On the smoking thing, unfortunately I already quit smoking without using a ritual.

I am curious, after 35 years, have you used Magic to accomplish anything? Because I would be interested in pursuing the study of magic in order to ease the suffering of the world. I understand you may not share my ambition, but I'm curious what you believe you are now capable of, given your extensive background.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

But you already started this particular discussion by challenging the power of my freewill, so it would be impossible at this point because I'm going to use the word Magic just to spite you. There was definitely a chance that I could have been convinced to start using the word Magick in order to avoid confusion with Stage Magic, but that chance is shot now because of my stubborn nature and intrinsic need for self-volition.

You haven't been spiteful at all. I am sat in the camp of metaphysical libertarianism with regards to the philosophical point of free will. I am assuming that from the general course of our discussion that you are coming from the same viewpoint as my own. However, you may be saying say that me being able to control your free will is impossible because you may be a hard determinist and from that viewpoint then yes it would be impossible for me to control your free will. If it is the case that we are diametrically opposed in our philosophical viewpoints then there should be no more said on the matter. The confusion between the meaning of the word magic has been resolved on this thread so I don't mind which word anyone uses, magic ot magick. My reason for saying that I would have infringed your free will is that as a sentient being you have the choice as to which of the two words available you want to use in this discussion. You have used the freedom of your will to make that choice and you have chosen the word magic over the other word magick. What I am saying is that it is possible through magickal means to order your consciousness to use the other word thus removing your freedom to use your own will to choose which word you want to use.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

On the smoking thing, unfortunately I already quit smoking without using a ritual.

I brought that up as it is one of my own rituals and it works miraculously in the sense that there aren't any withdrawl symptoms after it is performed. As nicotine addiction is one of the most powerful drug addictions known to man it is rather quite awesome how this magick works to make stopping smoking completely automatic and effortless.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

I am curious, after 35 years, have you used Magic to accomplish anything? Because I would be interested in pursuing the study of magic in order to ease the suffering of the world. I understand you may not share my ambition, but I'm curious what you believe you are now capable of, given your extensive background.

I was reluctant to join this thread for two days because of of the likelihood of comments such as Dianeva's. But I sensed that you probably have a fascination about magick and are open minded about this ancient art so I decided to join in. I wouldn't have studied and practiced magick for such a long period of time if it didn't work. If we were sat at table and I told you what I am capable of and you were open minded to what I was saying you would probably not want to cross my path ever again out of plain fear. Having said that, I am what is generally termed a white magician in the sense that I use magickal powers to enrich my own life and that of others rather than use magick for malevolent purposes.

[EDIT] I should have mentioned that your ambitions are lofty ones and mere mortals really don't have that much power individually to ease the suffering of the world through magickal means. Though when groups of magicians come together for such a purpose than small changes can be wrought. I remember a group did come together to attempt to reduce the level of crime in the large town that they lived in. They worked on this goal for a period of one month. For that month the level of crime recorded by local law enforcement showed a significant drop compared to the average amount of crime commited over an average month. This is highly debateable of course.

Over the weekend I will put together a ritual I have created myself. I will call the thread 'Mcwillis's awesome stop smoking spell - volunteers needed'

It would be interesting to see how well it works for people. It worked perfectly for me. I am sure there must be people here that would like to stop smoking but can't stop via will power or modern stop smoking aids.

and now as i wave my magic wand......poof!!: abiogenesis

ta-dah

Originally Posted by ♥Mark

What is magic if not something that is physically impossible?

You obviously don't know much about the subject. Most magic (magick) performed today is done with the intention of subtly manipulating events in the caster's favour, not making rabbits appear in hats.

Originally Posted by greenhavoc

and now as i wave my magic wand......poof!!: abiogenesis

ta-dah

Go away.

Originally Posted by cmind

subtly manipulating events in the caster's favour

How, specifically? Sounds like you're saying that they cast spells that [somehow] slightly bend the will of the universe to work to their ends but unless there's an actual physical causal relationship between what they do and what happens then I would call that physically impossible, even if you would consider it subtle.

Originally Posted by ♥Mark

How, specifically? Sounds like you're saying that they cast spells that [somehow] slightly bend the will of the universe to work to their ends but unless there's an actual physical causal relationship between what they do and what happens then I would call that physically impossible, even if you would consider it subtle.

This, frankly, sounds like the rational materialist model grinding to a halt after running out of oil...

To me, magic is only magic until it is understood. So if we ever got to the point of legit "Lord of the Rings" style magery and sorcery, it wouldn't really be magic to me... because we would be able to understand it and harness it.

Examples.
1) Fire was magical as hell. Until we figured it out.
2) Lightening? Spears of the freakin' Gods!! Until we figured it out.
3) Explosives. Back in their "early" days in the middle and far east people came up against an enemy that would toss clay pots at them that hissed and spat out smoke. When the pot crashed to the ground it broke and a deafening thunder-like sound came forth and fire spat out. That was pretty goddamn magical... until we figured it out.
4) Quantum Locking? Still blows my balls off... but it ain't magical.

Anyways, I could go on and on.

TLDR: I dunno if I "believe" in magic. Magic, whether it be High Fantasy or other, very well may exist. But the thing is, what people consider "Magic" changes from year to year.

Don't know if that answered the question... but yeah... there it is.

Edit: I've actually gotten myself wondering about things that were once considered magical or legendary, but have been studied and understood. If anyone has any cool examples please share!

If you manipulate chaos to proceed in a certain fashion with a specific result it's hardly chaos, is it?

Originally Posted by ♥Mark

If you manipulate chaos to proceed in a certain fashion with a specific result it's hardly chaos, is it?

I doubt you know what I mean by the term "chaos". Can you tell me the 3 defining characteristics of a chaotic system?

Originally Posted by cmind

I doubt you know what I mean by the term "chaos". Can you tell me the 3 defining characteristics of a chaotic system?

No, why don't you tell me.

Originally Posted by ♥Mark

No, why don't you tell me.

Take this opportunity to actually research something for once. Then report back with what you've learned.