Petition the Mainstream Media to cover Citizen's Disclosure

[Original Poster]

Obviously this is a lost cause, last time we tried to do a disclosure in this country we lost 2,997 innocent lives. But it's worth it just to show we won't give up until disclosure happens. https://www.change.org/petitions/cal...s_dialog_false

[shadowofwind]

As I posted previously, not sure which forum....I held an above top secret clearance (woooo) and worked for several years in a building which according to what I read on the internet contains alien stuff. In my view this alien conspiracy stuff is ridiculous, imagined by people on the outside who don't understand technology or how power in the government works. World trade center disaster conspiracy theories are ridiculous and wrong in my view too. The system is corrupt and wrong, but nowhere near that corrupt in quite that way. The inconsistent and illogical testimony of a handful of bullshitters and schizophrenics out of the millions of people who have worked in that industry doesn't amount to much in my view. Somehow the testimony of people like me doesn't seem to count as much - people believe what they want to, apparently.

[Original Poster]

I worked in a building that had Secret restrictions. If I crossed the tape without clearance, I could have served 20 years for treason. If anyone brought a cellphone into a taped area, they could also get charged with treason. But that doesn't mean shit, because it's all Need-to-know. Working somewhere with above top secret restrictions doesn't mean you suddenly know everything there is to know and have the power to debunk any possibility. I recommend watching the original disclosure that took place in august, 2001. Your judgmental attitude regarding some very respectable witnesses (which is both consistent and sane) has led me to judge you more harshly than I would prefer to. Your closed mindedness has unfortunately caused you to lose some respect in my view.

[shadowofwind]

Working somewhere with above top secret restrictions doesn't mean you suddenly know everything there is to know and have the power to debunk any possibility. Of course. It does count for something though. Here's another anecdote which again doesn't decide everything, but which I think is also relevant. In the late 90's I listened to Art Bell, entertained alien conspiracy theories, entertained Y2K 'earth changes' predictions, and had a bleak view of society and the future. I was working an extremely boring computer memory test engineering job then, in an environment I didn't feel like I belonged in. When I quit, my whole outlook changed immediately. The paranoia had been a symptom of my own suffering, and wasn't actually a very plausible interpretation of the world in general. My life didn't suddenly become wonderful: For instance I earned less than $15K/yr for the next four years at least, and faced other social challenges. But I was moving in the direction I needed to go in, and that made a huge difference to my perceptions. If your work and life circumstances were less painful, and not slowly killing you like a carnivorous plant dissolving a bug, I doubt you would entertain 9/11 conspiracy theories. You'd look at it objectively and it just wouldn't make any sense. I'm not saying your circumstances are your fault, far from it, and maybe its something you have to go through. But do you still work in a kennel? The suffering of the animals alone would be enough to drive me half insane. You're also being fucked over by your fellow countrymen, and you must be aware of that, which would be part of where the paranoia comes from. Your judgmental attitude regarding some very respectable witnesses (which is both consistent and sane) has led me to judge you more harshly than I would prefer to. Your closed mindedness has unfortunately caused you to lose some respect in my view. I'm OK with that. Consider this though: By entertaining a conspiracy theory, you are making a judgment based on a collection of ostensible facts which is contradicted by other ostensible facts, and are making a judgment about what facts and which interpretation to believe. You are also very harshly judging the people who you believe to be mass murderers or accomplices to mass murder. Objectively, aside from the fact that you judge different people, is your thought really less judgmental than mine? Do you have enough information to make that determination? Despite our extensive conversations, there is really an awful lot we haven't discussed, and I don't think you can have a very realistic view of what I do or do not understand from my experience. As a side note, I have an interview Friday for a plausible job with a small company where my wife and kids are, so thank you for your encouragement.

[melanieb]

I must admit, this is the first thread, OP, where I wasn't sure if you were totally serious or not. I'm afraid I am forced to agree with shadowofwind.

[Original Poster]

I am one of the happiest people I know, to tell you the truth. You assume just because you entertained such theories when you were depressed, therefore everyone who entertains such theories is also depressed. I have a passion for the strange and alternative, and this passion fills me with joy. Sure, I'm not happy all the time, life is full of ups and downs. But I spend most of my time basking in the wonder of life, and that includes subjects which are mysterious and aversive to cynical minds. I like the enigmatic. I like possibility. So I don't hesitate to study far-fetched possibilities. It is a marvelous pleasure. I would call myself more open minded than others, but I know it's really just my particular tastes which drives my studies. As for you, MelanieB, your confusion reflects your current view of reality. One does not have to either be serious or not, after all.

[shadowofwind]

You "like the possibility" that American authorities have murdered thousands of Americans to suppress the truth about their activities? Considering it is a "marvelous pleasure" to you? And despite the gravity of that accusation you're not limiting yourself to being serious or not? Wow. Just wow.

[juroara]

There is no better evidence of a cover up than the original Roswell statement released that a ufo was retrieved, only to later be denounced within hours. Then there is also project blue book, which didn't involve any real science but from the get go was created to disprove and quiet the public. Shadow, no one in this thread is asking you to believe crazy conspiracy theories. The point is real simple - the US government does practice keeping secrets. That's a fact or rather an actual conspiracy - not a theory. All evidence points to they've been keeping secrets regarding the UFO phenomenon for decades. Other governments have already openly admitted that they have. Like OP said, having a top secret clearance means nothing. Not even the president holds the highest clearance. Its a need-to-know only basis. I know someone who also who had a top secret clearance (boeing I think?). I was talking about UFO's and suddenly she started to talk about a photograph she accidentally came across while at that job. She didn't mention what was in the photograph. Her eyes swelled red and she had a look of fear. All she told me was that she was to never speak or think of it again. So you didn't come across anything UFO related at your job? Plenty of other people with clearances have. Are you really entertaining the idea that all of them are fundamentally wrong or insane simply becuase you didn't experience what they did? That's a vain philosophy I refuse to live by.

[shadowofwind]

Like OP said, having a top secret clearance means nothing. Not even the president holds the highest clearance. Its a need-to-know only basis. I know someone who also who had a top secret clearance (boeing I think?). I was talking about UFO's and suddenly she started to talk about a photograph she accidentally came across while at that job. She didn't mention what was in the photograph. Her eyes swelled red and she had a look of fear. All she told me was that she was to never speak or think of it again. Two points: One, there is inflation in secrecy grades, and Top Secret gets you almost no access to sensitive information no matter what your 'need to know'. You need a higher clearance than that. Second, yes fear sucks, that's why people who may or may not even be serious shouldn't be throwing around accusations of mass murder. So you didn't come across anything UFO related at your job? Plenty of other people with clearances have. Are you really entertaining the idea that all of them are fundamentally wrong or insane simply becuase you didn't experience what they did? No I am not entertaining that idea, and I already made that clear in an earlier response. I know what went on where I worked, and had enough access to know for sure that UFO conspiracy people were saying things about my workplace and by implication people I worked with which I knew to be ridiculously far from the truth. So I know for certain that some of the conspiracy claims are ridiculous. Of course it doesn't tell me that all such claims are false. But it does tell me that you who would believe such claims need to find some way to sort out the truth from the fabrication if you're going to have a chance at arriving at a realistic view. And I don't see much evidence of that kind of thinking or even an understanding of why it is important. Furthermore, I have enough experience with enough government organizations at a high enough level that I do think I can make some reasonable generalizations about how they work. I don't see much evidence of realism in similar kinds of generalizations made by conspiracy theorists. Finally, I don't see much evidence of effort to separate alien activity from other objectively paranormal phenomena, and it doesn't all amount to the same thing. When people are in tears with fear, and making accusations about mass murder, it's not all the same. It's not belief in aliens that I'm criticizing. It's the paranoid conspiracy thinking and the seriousness-indifferent slander.

[Original Poster]

You "like the possibility" that American authorities have murdered thousands of Americans to suppress the truth about their activities? Considering it is a "marvelous pleasure" to you? And despite the gravity of that accusation you're not limiting yourself to being serious or not? Wow. Just wow. Thousands of Americans were murdered, period. I have chosen in this thread to advocate an alternative opinion as to who murdered them. The fact that they were murdered does not give me pleasure, that's an egregious fallacy and I'd like an apology. I find it interesting that such a sweeping news takeover happened only a month after the disclosure. I find this to be a peculiar coincidence. Especially considering how compelling the disclosure is. But to you, it's all inconsistent and insane. Most likely because you haven't actually seen it, because it didn't get a chance to be spotlighted, because of 9/11.

[shadowofwind]

The fact that they were murdered does not give me pleasure, that's an egregious fallacy and I'd like an apology. I did not at all imply that the fact that they were murdered gives you pleasure. I did imply that there's something deeply off about finding "marvelous pleasure" in tossing around speculative allegations about who is reponsible for their murder though. Particularly if you may or may not even be serious. The issue is the cavalier attitude about whether blame is assigned where it rightly belongs. Its not "interesting" or in any way a pleasure to be falsely accused of a serious crime. False accusations against political or social institutions are damaging in a somewhat different way than accusations against specific individuals. But they are deeply damaging because real individuals are a part of or have important relationships with such institutions. If such an accusation is true, it must be made with all sincerity and seriousness. Somehow you are concerned with the perception that I have slandered your integrity though, even though you display so little concern about whether you may be slandering. I do care about treating people fairly and honestly though. So if I did unintentionally give the impression that you took pleasure in the WTC disaster, I do apologize for that.

[Original Poster]

I find the coincidence that 9/11 happened one month after disclosure to be interesting. I don't not necessarily cast allegations against any particular individuals, but there are a lot of related questions that ought to be raised. Would it be slander to call OJ Simpson a murderer because he was acquitted? Or even to at least raise the question that the glove would have fit him if it hadn't shrunk before the trial?

[Original Poster]

Let's see how the popular media covered it. Citizen Hearing On Disclosure: UFO Believers To Testify At Congressional-Style Hearings (LIVE UPDATES) http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/04/us...iens.html?_r=0 Believe in UFOs? Highlights of the Citizen Hearing on Disclosure Citizen Hearing on Disclosure, a Faux Hearing About Alien Encounters - The Daily Beast If you noticed the way I ordered the articles, it gets progressively more biased. The last two articles explain almost immediately that the former congressmen were paid 20,000 each to listen to boring and crazy BS for a week. If you listen to the first hour of this episode of Coast 2 Coast, you get a rather different sentiment.

[juroara]

This one is so far my favorite clip!

[shadowofwind]

Whether you believe in a conspiracy about aliens or not, if you guys want to do something about this, sign the petition to pardon Eric Snowden. The underlying problem is excessive government secrecy and the fascist profiteering that its protecting. If we can fix that problem, then that fixes this other problem too, such as it might be. Here's the link: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...owden/Dp03vGYD Its already over 100,000 signatures, which means the Obama Administration will have to respond. That's still only 1 person in about 3000 though. If it had a few million signatures, then they'd know that they have a serious political problem. One man, one vote does still decide who is in congress, so these perceptions do make a difference. Please also consider posting it on any higher traffic sites that you visit where you haven't seen it. I saw it over at slashdot. I find it depressing that sites like DMT forums have ten or a hundred times the readership of a dream forum, but now at least we can all agree on something.