Thread: The Sense of being Stared at

^ Magnets have fields of force, not energy.

Originally Posted by Xei

All you get are pages of pseudoscience and pages about 'human energy fields'. If it's a real physical thing, why on Earth is it specific to humans? No type of energy is specific to humans. Where are all the scientific articles about energy fields of other objects?

If you were able to comprehend the (nonsense) article you just linked to, you'd know that it talks about measuring electrical and magnetic fields, which are force fields.

Force and energy are two completely distinct physical concepts.

Energy fields are meaningless pseudoscience.

If you call it a force field, is it all still pseudo-science? What is it that makes it all pseudo-science if these fields were proven to exist?


I think there is a huge variable in this whole matter and that is intuition. Everybodies intuition is different and this brings up the entire panorama of psychic awareness. I imagine that there would be a significant difference in tests between "average" people vs. those people who call themselves psychic/healers/spiritual etc.

what is the difference between force & energy?

Originally Posted by Hijo de la Luna

what is the difference between force & energy?

Force is something an object experiences as the result of being influenced by some source of energy. And force is a vector, so if I push you, there will be a force acting in the direction I pushed you. You experience a force due to gravitation, for instance. Force can make stuff move or change velocity.

Energy normally involves the movement of atoms. Heat, sound, light etc. are all forms of energy. Energy cannot be created or destroy according to Newton (unless you're talking nuclear physics ) so all you're doing is converting energy from one thing to another. If you take my stupid example, when I push you, I convert energy stored in the chemical bonds of the food I eat into kinetic energy that came from moving my muscles. If you hit the floor with a loud bang, there ya have sound waves travelling through the air after converting the potential energy you had from standing up into kinetic (falling down) and sound (hitting the floor). You experience a force through the reaction you feel when you hit the ground.

Energy is the capacity of something to do work on something else. Doing work on something means applying a force to it over a distance. The formula relating the two is W = F*d.

For example, if you drop 2 kilos through 5 metres, the Earth's gravitational field (a force field) applies a force of around 20 newtons on the mass through a distance of 5 metres so just before it hits the ground it has 5*20 = 100 joules of energy.

There are lots of different types of energy. In this case the 100 joules will be in the form of the kinetic energy of the mass.

When it hits the ground all of this kinetic energy will be converted into other types like sound and heat.

If you call it a force field, is it all still pseudo-science? What is it that makes it all pseudo-science if these fields were proven to exist?

I only brought up the field thing because it shows that these people aren't scientists.

Obviously 'if' they were proven to exist they wouldn't be pseudoscience, but they haven't been. Pointless comment to be honest.

Who says it's pseudoscience? Because you don't like the words they are using to describe this phenomenon the best way possible to people who aren't scientists? You seem to have a real problem with the idea of energy, but last I check, everything is energy. And energy 'field' is just a descriptive term. You haven't disproven them in any way, all you have done is shown you don't like the words in the way they are using it. But you're just one person. I think energy field is a great way to describe this phenomenon, but whatever or however you choose to describe this phenomenon does not change the fact that this phenomenon is real.

Originally Posted by Xei

I only brought up the field thing because it shows that these people aren't scientists.

Obviously 'if' they were proven to exist they wouldn't be pseudoscience, but they haven't been. Pointless comment to be honest.

You don't have to be so brief. Can't you explain why these aren't proofs, why they aren't valid, etc. Having a minor discrepancy in wording isn't a big deal. Also my last paragraph in the last post wasn't related to that article.

Originally Posted by juroara

Who says it's pseudoscience? Because you don't like the words they are using to describe this phenomenon the best way possible to people who aren't scientists? You seem to have a real problem with the idea of energy, but last I check, everything is energy. And energy 'field' is just a descriptive term. You haven't disproven them in any way, all you have done is shown you don't like the words in the way they are using it. But you're just one person. I think energy field is a great way to describe this phenomenon, but whatever or however you choose to describe this phenomenon does not change the fact that this phenomenon is real.

Words have meanings, juroara.

I can't make a statement like 'I can prove frogs are a kind of mammal' and then say 'oh but here mammal means amphibian'.

This is just basic rational behaviour we're talking about here.

You don't have to be so brief. Can't you explain why these aren't proofs, why they aren't valid, etc. Having a minor discrepancy in wording isn't a big deal. Also my last paragraph in the last post wasn't related to that article

I'm not sure which proofs you're talking about. If you're talking about that random article about 'science measures energy fields' or whatever it was, that was only ever brought up in relation to terminology, it wasn't relevant to the thread (if I remember correctly).

Whenever a group of these spiritual people as you put it proves in an experiment that this phenomenon is real then we'll have to accept it and it'll probably arouse a great deal of interest. Until then there's no reason giving any credence to it.

So its not about energy, its about force. Looks like the Jedis were right.

Originally Posted by Xei

I'm not sure which proofs you're talking about. If you're talking about that random article about 'science measures energy fields' or whatever it was, that was only ever brought up in relation to terminology, it wasn't relevant to the thread (if I remember correctly).

It did have relevance, not just through terminology. You can't just call it 'pseudo-science' or 'nonsense' because of what you get out of a quick Google search.

What of biomagnetic fields then? By talking of magnetism they probably understand that it's not actually energy. Actually, it was stated in the article that magnetic fields is what is generated by the body and its cells/nerves. The use of the term "energy" leaks into this scientific view because of its associations with spirituality and healing. If you read the whole article, it addresses what you think is a problem.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

So its not about energy, its about force. Looks like the Jedis were right.

Actually, it is not a force, it is not electromagnetic field, it is a very very subtle matter/energy. It behaves like plasma, but it is directed by thoughts and feelings. Scientists who believe in it or who observe the effects of it are hypothesizing about what it is are trying to explain it by electromagnetic this and that. We have electromagnetic fields also. We have force fields.

we need to spend more time in nature, away from the city, away from the computer, outside, with no powerlines, barefoot. Then our electromagnetic field will not be distorted by all the other electromagnetic fields around us all the time and will come into balance with the electromagnetic field of the Earth. Then we will be able to sense Earthquakes before they happen like the other animals do.

Scientists have yet to discover what the human energy field is, and most of the scientists have a limited concept of what it is, looking to explain it with conventional energies and forces that they know of. Kirlian photography is not taking pictures of the human energy field. It is a subtle matter/energy that is barely material.

When they do discover it, it will solve our energy problems. If we are able to tap that energy which is everywhere around us there is no limit to what we could do with it! It is a renewable energy that somehow replaces itself as soon as it is used. Imagine if you could run your cars off of it! Or run your computer off of it. It would be great to replace electricity with the Universal energy field. I know I call it an energy field but it is like part energy, part matter. Like fire or plasma.

It's all in the mind in my opinion. But the visualisation of "energy", "chakra" or an electromagnetic field and such does have notable effects. Even though I find the reasoning behind it fallacious, there are results. It's like placebo medicine; it works but for the wrong reasons. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. There is energy all around us but our thoughts and our mind is limited to controlling the energy within us; you sweat to cool down or your blood vessels constrict to keep in heat for example. You can heavily influence your senses or tap into stored energy in your body all through the power of thought, but electromagnetic fields have a negligible effect on us. Electromagnetic waves are emitted before an earthquake hit. Dogs have the biological capacity to sense them. We don't. It would be cool if we did, but I never heard of a single person who could.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

Actually, it is not a force, it is not electromagnetic field, it is a very very subtle matter/energy. It behaves like plasma, but it is directed by thoughts and feelings. Scientists who believe in it or who observe the effects of it are hypothesizing about what it is are trying to explain it by electromagnetic this and that. We have electromagnetic fields also. We have force fields.

we need to spend more time in nature, away from the city, away from the computer, outside, with no powerlines, barefoot. Then our electromagnetic field will not be distorted by all the other electromagnetic fields around us all the time and will come into balance with the electromagnetic field of the Earth. Then we will be able to sense Earthquakes before they happen like the other animals do.

Scientists have yet to discover what the human energy field is, and most of the scientists have a limited concept of what it is, looking to explain it with conventional energies and forces that they know of. Kirlian photography is not taking pictures of the human energy field. It is a subtle matter/energy that is barely material.

When they do discover it, it will solve our energy problems. If we are able to tap that energy which is everywhere around us there is no limit to what we could do with it! It is a renewable energy that somehow replaces itself as soon as it is used. Imagine if you could run your cars off of it! Or run your computer off of it. It would be great to replace electricity with the Universal energy field. I know I call it an energy field but it is like part energy, part matter. Like fire or plasma.

I know, I was making a joke.

I think the reason why chakras are so hard for people to grasp is because they are not 'things'. They are like electron spheres around an atom. There are certain places an electron is likely to be, some more than others and some not at all. Despite these spheres, you can never look at an atom and say, "there is the electron". A chakra is the same way. They are positions of collective energy. Energy flows throughout the body in various forms. There are certain bottlenecks where energy passes through more frequently. These bottlenecks are chakras. Some of these bottlenecks are extremes where most if not all of the body's energy has to pass through them, they are the primary seven. Chakras are nexuses.

Imagine seeing a building only in infrared. All you can see are the warm bodies moving about. If you see a still frame, then you can't really make out any structure to the building, but if you watch a time lapse tape, you'll start to see places where people frequent; doorways and other places that many people have to pass through throughout the day. These places are like chakras.

Nice post Xaqaria. I'm not sure about you, but there are people who also believe in several layers of bodies. The main two are the physical body and "etheric" body, which is sometimes called the energy body. The etheric body and the chakras apparently dominate the limited form of the physical body and determine its health, though I don't know if you'd agree. What are your thoughts on such energies actually leaving the physical body as an O.B.E?

Well, I think the whole thing starts to get confusing when physical body and energy body, etc. are taken too literally. Really there is only one body, and these things are just different facets of that body. Because the infrared analogy is such a good one, I'll use it again; If you look at someone through an infrared camera, you can see their 'heat body'. It is similar to their physical body but its a slightly different shape. In reality though, it is the same body as the physical body, just looked at differently.

I don't know about OBE's because I have no experience with them. I can say though that energy does leave the body, this is obvious, but I don't think it leaves the body in a way that is 'you'. It is no longer part of the 'energy body' once it leaves. The energy is sustained and anchored by the physical structure (and vice versa). OBE's are physically possible though, even if it isn't your energy body leaving your physical body. Just like the nexuses of energy in a body (chakras), each body is a nexus of energy in a greater energetic structure. Just as my consciousness can come to sit in my heart nexus, perhaps it can come to sit in a tree nexus, or an air eddy nexus. I don't want to sound too psuedo-sciencey, but if big bang theory is anywhere close to reality, and quantum mechanics is anywhere close to reality, then it is possible for every thing in the universe to have 'spooky effects' at a distance on everything else. If the singularity of big bang theory is how this current universe actually got its start, then every part of the universe is entangled with every other part. Even when they don't mean to, scientists allude to the great web that we are all entangled in with the words they choose.

Originally Posted by Xei

Words have meanings

The articles that I read are created for the average person with no scientific background what so ever. They are going to use simpler words to DESCRIBE what the phenomenon is. If they stick to strictly scientific lingo, the message of their research will never be understood by the average person.

On the website I posted there are articles for the average person, and there are articles for people with a health or scientific background. The language is different. I don't read the articles for the scientists because I am not a scientist. Rather, like any other person, I depend on scientists to tell me what they discovered about reality. All I can do is choose to believe them or not, and I need a good reason to not believe a scientist.

I'm not sure which proofs you're talking about. If you're talking about that random article about 'science measures energy fields' or whatever it was, that was only ever brought up in relation to terminology, it wasn't relevant to the thread (if I remember correctly).

It is relevant to the thread, it's not some random article and there's a great deal of interest right now.

"The HeartMath Research Center’s work is supported and reviewed by two boards of independent researchers, the Scientific Advisory Board and the Physics of Humanity Council. These groups are comprised of specialists in physics, mathematics, biology, psychology, health, medicine, engineering and computer science."

This new science is feminine. And no doubt it makes a lot of traditional science people uncomfortable, because traditional science is masculine. But this new science is feminine. It researches deeper into our emotions and intuition and gives meaning to them in a way science has yet to do before.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

I don't know about OBE's because I have no experience with them. I can say though that energy does leave the body, this is obvious, but I don't think it leaves the body in a way that is 'you'. It is no longer part of the 'energy body' once it leaves. The energy is sustained and anchored by the physical structure (and vice versa). OBE's are physically possible though, even if it isn't your energy body leaving your physical body. Just like the nexuses of energy in a body (chakras), each body is a nexus of energy in a greater energetic structure. Just as my consciousness can come to sit in my heart nexus, perhaps it can come to sit in a tree nexus, or an air eddy nexus.

Ahhh, how exactly...? I don't understand this. Overall I think I'm with you though.

I used to be a crazy Naruto Shippuden fan. I want to believe in chakras. Please give me tangible proof guys!

Originally Posted by really

Ahhh, how exactly...? I don't understand this. Overall I think I'm with you though.

I don't really know how, otherwise I would be an expert in OBE's by now. I'm just saying, the human body as a discrete entity is an illusion. You are no more your brain or your heart than the table across the room or a tree outside your window. During most of my day, I 'feel myself' as being inside my head. During meditation or certain circumstances I feel myself in my heart, or my stomach, or at the base of my spine. On a few occasions in my life I've felt 'myself' as coming from behind my back (actually I guess this would qualify as an 'out of body experience' although this is the first time I've thought about it that way. It still could be an illusion of sorts; I've never gotten information that was unavailable to my body). There is no scientific explanation for what consciousness is. Even though most members of the scientific community speculate that consciousness is a product of the brain, there really isn't any evidence for this.

All things are part of the same energetic structure. If consciousness is part of the structure instead of the conceptual parts of the structure (like a human body) then it should be just as possible to move your consciousness around to other conceptual parts, into the air, under the ground, etc. just as it is possible to move it around to the different nexuses within the body.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

On a few occasions in my life I've felt 'myself' as coming from behind my back (actually I guess this would qualify as an 'out of body experience' although this is the first time I've thought about it that way.

I know exactly what you mean.

Paraknight: I used to be a crazy Naruto Shippuden fan. I want to believe in chakras. Please give me tangible proof guys!

What good is it if you believe in chakras if you have no personal experience that they exist. That is the proof you need: personal experience. If a scientist tells you that 'yes, in fact they do exist', it will do you no good, you will remain the same, just with a little more burdened by borrowed knowledge.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

What good is it if you believe in chakras if you have no personal experience that they exist. That is the proof you need: personal experience. If a scientist tells you that 'yes, in fact they do exist', it will do you no good, you will remain the same, just with a little more burdened by borrowed knowledge.

Not me unfortunately. Whatever I experience could be for a myriad of reasons. I want to know the real reason. If I give you placebo medicine against some pain, and the pain goes away, do you automatically assume that the medicine contained effective antibiotics? The answer may be yes, but it's not the truth. Only with solid proof will I be able to believe things without a cloud of doubt about the validity of their existence. Of course existence is relative but there is nothing that can be done there.

Originally Posted by juroara

Who says it's pseudoscience? Because you don't like the words they are using to describe this phenomenon the best way possible to people who aren't scientists? You seem to have a real problem with the idea of energy, but last I check, everything is energy. And energy 'field' is just a descriptive term. You haven't disproven them in any way, all you have done is shown you don't like the words in the way they are using it. But you're just one person. I think energy field is a great way to describe this phenomenon, but whatever or however you choose to describe this phenomenon does not change the fact that this phenomenon is real.

No. It's pseudoscience because it is written as if it were scientific, but nothing in it is true.

There is no such thing as energy field. You don't even know what "energy" is. "Energy" is potential action. Energy is a measurable number, not a field. Energy is not "everything". Things in the universe have a natural tendency towards action, and how much potential for action a given object has is its energy. This potential for action is important to physics, for it is only transferred, not lost, and it tends towards equilibrium.

Also, we don't have to disprove anything - the onus of proof is up to you, since you're the one making the positive claim.

You're talking about energy, and you don't even know what it is.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

I don't really know how, otherwise I would be an expert in OBE's by now. I'm just saying, the human body as a discrete entity is an illusion. You are no more your brain or your heart than the table across the room or a tree outside your window. During most of my day, I 'feel myself' as being inside my head. During meditation or certain circumstances I feel myself in my heart, or my stomach, or at the base of my spine. On a few occasions in my life I've felt 'myself' as coming from behind my back (actually I guess this would qualify as an 'out of body experience' although this is the first time I've thought about it that way. It still could be an illusion of sorts; I've never gotten information that was unavailable to my body).

Oh right, I see what you mean.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

There is no scientific explanation for what consciousness is. Even though most members of the scientific community speculate that consciousness is a product of the brain, there really isn't any evidence for this.

Indeed. That could demonstrate a limitation of science. Without people recognizing that, they don't really learn much more about consciousness or science itself.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

No. It's pseudoscience because it is written as if it were scientific, but nothing in it is true.

I wonder if you read the whole article? It explains more about magnetism and detecting actual force fields than it does proving an "energy field." You cannot say that none of it is true because you think it is pseudoscience, so provide some substance on why.

Why does she have to prove anything? She claims one thing and you claim another.
There is evidence, but you only accept certain evidence that you define the rules of what can be accepted as evidence and what can't.

What do you mean it is written as if it is science? The word "Energy" is not copyrighted by science. Neither is the word "Field". People have used these words since before scientists thought the world was flat. Scientists like to discover things that people have known all along and then put their own words to them, thus claiming the knowledge as their own. Just like Christopher Columbus discovered America.

A scientist will discover the whole Universe before he finds himself. Some people find themselves first before they look for the whole Universe. The people who start with themselves might not have the knowledge of the Universe to back up their claims, but that doesn't mean that what they claim is not an authentic experience that they can act on with confidence that brings about the expected results.

For example: a women about to call 911 to go to the hospital asked me out of desperation to try to help her before she called 911. I am not a scientist, or a doctor. But I looked inside her "Energy Field" and saw that it was her gall bladder was plugged up and filled with gall stones. Since the hospital would just operate on her, and she didn't want that. She asked me if there was anything to do. I said yes. I used my "energy field" to loosen up the obstruction then the pain subsided. I then instructed her on how to do a gall bladder cleanse which she did and she was healed. Now "I' didn't heal her. It was the human energy field and the gall bladder cleanse. But it wouldn't have happened if I couldn't see the human energy field.

And it was scientist who started calling it the human energy field! We used to call it the Aura! I don't know if it was Barbara Brennan who started it, but she promoted it. She is a very respected physicist who worked for NASA before she started seeing auras and she became a master healer. She has healed many many people of major terminal diseases like cancer. She even has reversed AIDS in others back into just HIV and kept it at bay.

Also, energy is not a number, silly. Numbers are man made symbols, glyphs. They represent abstract concepts, also man-made. With these superstitious symbols people claim to obtain paranormal powers which enable them to create technology to bring more happiness, but instead it brings pollution, unhappiness, war machines that kill, death and destruction. If only people weren't so superstitious and illogical they would stop believing that these primitive glyphs were real. Energy is real, numbers are not.