Thread: BossMan's Workbook

Hello everyone, I am still a beginner and have just started to have LD's on a consistent basis. My biggest problem right now is maintaining stability and having a dream last longer then 10m. I also work 6 days a week 10 hours a day so I don't get to sleep in to often!

Reality Checks:
-Pushing index and middle finger through palm.
-My palm has a number sequence on it when examined closely "777" I check for this.
-I currently don't have a third RC

Dream Signs:
-Strangers Smiling
-Blurry Images
-School Related Things (I finished school a long time ago)

Short-Term Goals:
-Be able to LD on a regular basis.
-Have an interaction with a DC that is more than them staring at me and smiling.
-Learn to maintain dream stability and have it last for a long time.

Long-Term Goals:
-Vividly viewing space in all its glory, passing stars, planets, galaxies, and interacting with the space environment.
-Being able to meet my shadow/anima and have a meaningful discussion.
-Being able to close my eyes and visualize a new landscape then open them and be there.

Lucid/Dream Recall History:
-Recently speaking I remember 2 LD's (In my journal) and 3 normal dreams. In the past I remember maybe 5 normal dreams and 1 LD (also in my journal).

Current Technique:
-WBTB into DILD (In detail below)
-I sleep at 10 PM while reciting a mantra until I pass out and then set my alarm to wake me up 5 hours afterwards (3 AM). I stay up for roughly 30m to an hour reading and then go to bed in my most comfortable position with confidence that I will LD, next thing I know I finish doing a reality check and I am in a LD.

Welcome, BossMan! Good to have you here. Your practice looks like it's already very well dialed in and you're right where you want to be. I wish that I had things this well organized when I was starting out!

I don't know whether you are in the market for a third reality check, but if you are I like the classic "nose pinch". (Pinch your nose shut and attempt to breathe through it.) It's not the most subtle RC in the world, but it's very rare for it to malfunction and it really feels shocking in an LD to get that blast of air when you've got your nose pinched down. It will really yank you out of semi-lucidity into a much higher level of awareness.

I am also really, really fond of your current tech. This is very similar to what I do myself. I find that a roughly 30 minute WBTB followed by a good induction tech is just a great way to induce DILDs.

Keep up the good work. Remember: "The World Is Yours."

Thank you CanisLucidus, I actually based a lot of my technique based of your guide for DILD's so I have to give you the credit

I attempt a Lucid Dream every single night, that way I make sure it is a consistent practice. Unfortunately today I did my usual technique and achieved a forgettable semi-lucidity. No worries though, I have achieved 2 LD's on my first 2 attempts to LD so I am very proud of my self.

Although I was hoping you could lend me your wisdom on stabilization and keeping everything clear and vivid. The problem I run into is after yelling vocal commands to increase clarity, it works but after some time gets blurry again. Also while I'm stabilizing I feel my self sort of waking up if I do it for too long. I went through the DV wiki and was disappointed not to find a tutorial on this as I feel it is pretty important. Any advice on stabilization or possibly a link to an article describing it well?

Off-topic: Not sure if that was a hip hop reference or just a coincidence. But I love that song by Nas "The World is Yours"

Also if you have tips on falling asleep faster after WBTB I would like that as well.

After enough looking I found the article I was looking for, incase others were interested I posted it here.

Excellent read, I will be sure to employ these tactics.

Dream Stabilization and Clarity Tutorial - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Awesome, glad that it is working so well for you! Yes, falling asleep after WBTB is something that I had to work on at first.

My approach is to go to bed with a clear, relaxed mind, and not get exposed to too much light during the WBTB. Then, I get in my most comfortable position, and don't budge.

Next, I willfully surrender my conscious mind. I almost imagine myself turning it off. Then I focus on my breathing, and begin counting backwards in my head while taking slow, measured breaths. Breathe in: "100..." Breathe out: "...I'm dreaming..." Breathe in: "...99... " Breathe out: "...I'm dreaming..." This is a lucid dreaming specific variant of a technique that I found on youtube by someone named... KamalV, I want to say? Anyhow, it works quite well for me. The main thing is I don't ever worry about how long it's taking, whether it's working, or how low I'll have to count. I think of nothing at all but the breathing itself and just let it take me away.

Off-topic: Not sure if that was a hip hop reference or just a coincidence. But I love that song by Nas "The World is Yours"

Heh heh, that was actually a "Scarface" reference, inspired by your avatar. That's what it says on the statue in Tony Montana's mansion (and also, I believe, on the Goodyear blimp when it passes by at some point during the movie.) The statue's most prominent after Tony's battle with the army of Bolivian assassins (aka the best shootout ever, as you know.)

After enough looking I found the article I was looking for, incase others were interested I posted it here

Ah yes, that's a good one! I was going to recommend Nina's tutorial, and it looks like you found the same material in an "official" package. These are very good techniques.

http://www.dreamviews.com/f12/ninas-...torial-118317/

Thats right! If I remember correctly that's the same pool his body falls in at the end, I forgot about that. I guess I'm a bigger hip hop fan then a Scarface fan xD, honestly though I really do love Scarface the movie never fails in making me laugh. Tony Montana will forever be an icon.

I tried for another lucid today using WBTB, this time I stayed awake for 2 1/2 hours I just could not go back to sleep. I'll try what you recommended tonight and hopefully that yields better results. I did finally end up dreaming and I remember only a fragment of the dream, better than nothing I suppose.

Originally Posted by BossMan

I tried for another lucid today using WBTB, this time I stayed awake for 2 1/2 hours I just could not go back to sleep. I'll try what you recommended tonight and hopefully that yields better results. I did finally end up dreaming and I remember only a fragment of the dream, better than nothing I suppose.

Okay, see what works for you! If a 30-minute WBTB tends to keep you awake for 2.5 hours, I would begin making minor adjustments until you find your sweet spot.
1. WBTB length. You could try a shorter interval like 15 minutes to help break you in.
2. Exposure to light. Keep this as limited as possible if you tend to be kept up!
3. Do only very, very relaxing activities while you're up. Try not to get TOO excited about the LDs that are coming, if you can! (This one is so tough for me.)

Keep the best records that you can during these attempts and hopefully this data will help you zero in on your own ideal recipe. Good luck, Boss!

Sigh another failure tonight! Bah! I had a big meeting in the morning though and I was honestly a bit worried about missing it because of an LD. No problem though, I can try again tonight and the day after is a weekend so I can sleep in!!!

I want to have a minimum of 1 LD a week though! CanisLucidus, how do you keep reality checks from becoming a mindless habit and how often do you perform them?

Originally Posted by BossMan

Sigh another failure tonight! Bah! I had a big meeting in the morning though and I was honestly a bit worried about missing it because of an LD. No problem though, I can try again tonight and the day after is a weekend so I can sleep in!!!

Yeah, man, no worries on that! There are just going to be nights where you know you need to get up early, you go to bed too tired, or just can't face doing a WBTB. It would have been challenging for you to properly focus on your LD attempt because of the meeting. And you want to be well-rested for those days where you've got the big meeting, the big presentation, the incredibly challenging technical problem to solve, etc.

So it sounds to me like you did it right! An important part of LD practice is to keep yourself rested and healthy so that you avoid danger of burning out. In fact, I had to wake up early this morning and I purposely blew off doing a WBTB last night. Saving my energy for tonight!

Originally Posted by BossMan

I want to have a minimum of 1 LD a week though! CanisLucidus, how do you keep reality checks from becoming a mindless habit and how often do you perform them?

I am sure you will get there! LDs can kind of ebb and flow, so don't stress too much if you have some peaks and valleys in your frequency. I had a >2 month gap between my 1st and 2nd LDs so you are already doing way better than I was when I started out!

Good question on the reality checks. My relationship with them has really changed over time, and I actually perform physical reality checks fairly infrequently. I perform mental reality checks pretty much any time that I either find myself getting swept up in the current of the day's events or if it has simply been a while since I mentally proved to myself that I wasn't dreaming.

I usually do physical checks when I see something that makes me feel unusually weird. Like seeing a person behaving strangely, misidentifying some object, or just generally feeling creeped out. Physical checks are very useful, but for me they play a back-up role to my mental reality checks.

Essentially, I have formed the habit of frequently getting that, "Oh crap, I'm supposed to be sure I'm not dreaming!" feeling. I compare it to that feeling you get whenever you are late for an important meeting or forgot to pick up something at the store. I have programmed myself to feel a very, very slight sense of urgency periodically throughout the day. When I am in the "more-aware" phases of sleep (such as late-stage REM), this sense of urgency will come to me in a dream. That almost always yields a DILD or a lucid fragment.

Just estimating, these "mental checks" probably occur to me 4-8 times per hour. They are fast (3-5 seconds), intense, and entirely internal to my brain. The physical checks aren't too frequent for me these days, but that's just how I personally do things these days. As long as you do them mindfully, RCs are great.

What are some examples of mental checks you like to do? Sometimes I try to set stuff on fire using my brain, not sure if this counts as a mental check.

Originally Posted by BossMan

What are some examples of mental checks you like to do? Sometimes I try to set stuff on fire using my brain, not sure if this counts as a mental check.

Heh. That sounds like a fun one.

I usually take a quick look around at everything and treat as semi-urgent the question of, "Am I sure that this isn't a dream? How do I know?" I make sure that I don't see anything dream-like. I typically don't. If I did, that's probably when you'd see me nose-pinching or whatever. Over time, I've gotten much better at recognizing dreams once I become suspicious. This was not always the case, and in this phase physical reality checks played a vital role for me.

Next, I quickly run through the last few minutes in a super fast-forward daydream. I make sure that my memory of how I got here makes sense. Sometimes I will also mentally replay the last few hours. (I do this in an attempt to boost dream recall.)

Then I do a quick pass over what I hear and feel, in addition to what I see. Just a few hundred milliseconds of super-awareness, you might say. I typically focus on sight, hearing, and touch. These are my strongest senses (and also the focus of SSILD... coincidence? Hmm...)

Essentially, I go through most of the day assuming that what I'm experiencing is waking life. But several times per hour I pull the trap door on myself and demand a serious and immediate answer as to whether or not I'm dreaming. If I can make these moments strike during late-morning sleep, I should be able to get the DILD or lucid fragment.

I hope this is of some help!

Yeah it is, thanks a bunch!

I tried again today, and I'm having a peculiar problem. I realized after doing my WBTB, I can't seem to fall asleep 100% I feel like I could always just get up whenever I want and I do catch my self dreaming while in this mode but it is not enough awareness to become lucid.

I'm trying to relate to you what its like for me when I do a WBTB. I never fall back into deep sleep, is this what is intended by WBTB? Everyone explains detailed methods in doing WBTB but never explains why this process helps you LD.

I'm gonna copy paste what I said in another workbook :3

When you WBTB, you are waking up at your REM period, which is usually 4-6 hours (may vary). Then you stay up for an amount of time, which also varies for everyone. What that does is make your mind awake, while your body is still kinda sleepy. When you go back to bed, you continue to sleep in your REM period (where most vivid dreams occur) but this time, you have a newly-attained awareness, and that can greatly increase your chances to realize you are dreaming.

Hope this helps. Oh and welcome!

Hey, BossMan! Yeah, thanks for putting the experience into words. That is pretty well described. I can appreciate how difficult that is to do, particularly since I'm about to try to fumble my way through a description of my own.

So it sounds like once you have your WBTB, you will frequently slip into half-dreams from which you easily awaken. But you don't have as many "full" dreams that go on and on. This is actually really close to the state that we want, but from your description you may be just a bit too awake. Ideally after a WBTB, you'll experience these half-dreams right on the border of waking and sleep, then slip into full dreams. (Ideally, this is where you become lucid.) Then you'll tend to slip back into a half-dream or have a micro-awakening, then you're back to more dreams. Experiencing vivid dreams is a good sign. Experiencing a lucid dream is an even better sign.

The idea with WBTB is to bring yourself to a more-or-less fully aware state just before you head into the period of sleep with the longest, richest REM cycles. By this point, much of your deep sleep (aka delta sleep aka stage 3 sleep) has taken place and you're now going to be spending lots of time in REM dreaming like crazy. The idea is to carry as much of your waking awareness with you as possible as you head into this phase of sleep. (I have some ideas about the specific effects that WBTB probably has on brain chemistry, but they're premature at this point.)

I'd suggest gradually tuning up your "ideal" WBTB interval. If your current interval is keeping you a bit too awake, keep that light exposure down, maintain a relaxed mind, and consider a shorter interval. You could even go as low as 10 minutes, or even 5. As long as you're systematic and keep good records, every attempt will teach you something about yourself. If you're currently staying awake for 30 minutes, give 20 a try for a night or two and see how that differs. If you're doing 20, try 15 or even 10. Just be sure to write down what you do, because it is insanely hard to keep this data straight in your head. Well, at least it is for me!

Good luck and let us know how you do!

Thanks CanisLucidus you have been a great help.

I'm waking up in the middle of the night every day for this and still no luck : / I'm wondering how long it took you to find a consistently working tech? I've tried waking up after 4 hours instead of 5, staying awake for 5m only instead of 20m, and I even tried not moving after waking up and just staying in my bed (this proved difficult to not just fall asleep again). Maybe I just need to keep doing this for a few months, I think my body is getting used to it though, its become a routine.

Hey Boss! Sorry for the slow reply... the holidays are very busy for me and I don't always have the greatest net access.

It took me a bit over 2 months of hard searching before I found a tech that fit very well for me. I accidentally did a WBTB and finally hit my 2nd lucid dream. A couple of weeks later, I adopted SSILD and immediately hit a lucid dream the first time that I tried it. That made it my "first love" of sorts, and the technique that I continue to use for my lucids. MILD has also been successful for me. In either case, WBTB was completely essential for the operation of either technique.

What kind of trouble do you have during WBTB? Is it still all about trouble getting back to sleep? Getting good at meditating is a very useful skill for falling asleep. Learning to convince your mind to stop "harboring thoughts" is very important for getting back to sleep. IMO.

Here is an article that I really like on learning not to harbor thoughts and clear your mind. This is a great skill for practicing awareness as well as getting back to sleep. Give it a read and see what you think!

Meditation article

Thought I should post an update on my progress, recently my Lucid Dreamer pills from ADN came in.

I decided to go straight for the double dosage because I really wanted to experience something special. I did a WBTB+5 hours and woke up to take the pills then immediately went back to sleep. Unfortunately I ran into the same problem I usually get, I can't fall asleep and stayed up for about an hour and a half doing nothing. At one point I even got out of my bed and just started browsing the web. I felt like the Galantamine actually woke me up more than normal.

Anyway, I decided to attempt a WILD but did not bother doing any of the special techniques mention in a lot of the guides. I just let my self doze off but when my HH started I regained a lot of my awareness (probably due to the galanatamines effects of increased awareness). I remember hearing someone whispering in my ear as I lay still, he was chanting the same thing over again and I could hear it very clearly and loudly. I also felt like something was sitting on my back or hugging me from behind, eventually I felt like I wanted to reposition my self and dug my self deeper into my pillows. I kept going and going until my whole body was submerged under pillows, at this point I was actually dreaming and had not realized it. All of a sudden I'm standing in blackness and I quickly do a reality check, and a super loud noise comes out of no where and wakes me up, Oh well....

At least I know what its like to actually pass into a WILD now, I feel I can do it again but only when I have no obligations in the morning.

Also that article is very inspiring, I will definitely try to stop harboring my thoughts as I actually do this all the time. I usually replay certain events in my head over and over when I'm doing nothing, I never thought about looking at my thoughts as a natural occurrence I could ignore like breathing or blinking.

Interesting stuff.

Hey, BossMan! Congratulations on that first WILD! My first one was less than a month ago (also galantamine-assisted), and I also found it to be a very educational experience. I'm still overwhelmingly a DILD guy but WILD was a great experience.

For me, having that first "assisted" WILD helped give me a feel for it that allowed me to do it naturally at the end of December. Perhaps it would have happened anyway, but I tend to credit that first learning experience for getting the "feel" of it. I also agree that it's not the kind of thing you go for when you're only going to be getting 5 hours of sleep.

Originally Posted by BossMan

I decided to go straight for the double dosage because I really wanted to experience something special. I did a WBTB+5 hours and woke up to take the pills then immediately went back to sleep. Unfortunately I ran into the same problem I usually get, I can't fall asleep and stayed up for about an hour and a half doing nothing. At one point I even got out of my bed and just started browsing the web. I felt like the Galantamine actually woke me up more than normal.

I'm not as familiar with "Lucid Dreamer" (although it sounds like a good product.) I assume that the "double dose" would make it an 8mg dose of galantamine, right? I've not gone that high yet. 4mg has seemed to be plenty so far (although I'll certainly experiment with 8mg at some point.) Even 4 mg (when paired with choline bitartrate and Alpha-GPC) gave me enough of a buzz that my main worry is falling back asleep, heh heh heh...

Congratulations on the LD! I'm new to WILDing myself so I get how special that first one is.

Welcome Bossman!

I like the goal you have of meeting your shadow! It can be quite hard to pin it down in one place.

I just wish I didn't have so many damn noisy neighbors so I could of properly enjoyed the WILD, it lasted all of 5 seconds. But the experience of how the WILD started was pretty important for me to understand what people mean to fall asleep while awake, it makes perfect sense now.

Lucid Dreamer provides 4mg Galantamine and 200mg Choline per capsule, I took two. I also just bought 5-htp (100mg per capsule) yesterday and the dropped the glass bottle and it shattered on the way home. So I spent last night watching a movie and manually rubbing the glass off each capsule I hope the pills are still safe to eat. Also do you know if 5-HTP expires after a certain amount of time, couldn't find a date on the bottle.

I agree. Experiencing WILD was very eye-opening. It was certainly similar to DEILD but I felt like I was being pulled on a much longer journey downward (if that makes sense.) Cool stuff.

And dude! Bad luck on that dropped bottle of 5-HTP. Be super careful not to ingest any glass!! If the bottle wasn't too big, it might be worth just grabbing a new one. There -- that was my paranoid nanny warning. Oh, expiration, lemme see... FWIW, my bottle expires in 2017. No idea whether that can be extrapolated in any way to yours, but there you go.

Hope the movie was good at least!

The movie was good enough for me to sit and clean 100 pills one by one using a flashlight to try and find any remaining glass shards.

I ended up taking one last night for one crazy experience. I wanted to ask have you ever experienced a lucid dream that would constantly blur out and eventually fade to blackness, and then you would have to refocus on the dream for it to slowly fade back in? This happened to me a lot last night.

Endless Chain - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Hey Boss, sorry for missing your latest question there.

I have had the experience of a dream going black and then hanging on until a new scene. However, I've not gone through it as many times as you did, nor have I tended to end up in such similar locations. For me, once it goes black, I've so far either wound up in a totally new scene (after working to hang on) or had the dream end. All in all, I think it's a good thing that even when you fade to black you're able to claw your way back in and keep going. You'd probably prefer to never have it fade in the first place, but getting things going again is the next best thing. IMO.

Also, I enjoyed reading that latest DJ entry of yours. If you smoke a cigarette in a dream, I don't suppose that counts as a nicotine-assisted LD. Nice job with the conjuring skills, too. Those will come in handy for you over and over again as you continue your practice. BTW, since you don't smoke, what was the experience of LD smoking like?

Sounded like 5-HTP was the only aid that you needed for this one, which is cool. Now that you mention it, I saw your other thread about taking 5-HTP every day and whether that would be a good idea. You might want to run this question by OpheliaBlue. IIRC, she went through a phase where she took 5-HTP pretty frequently and it sort of lost its effect. She might be able to help you avoid any potential pitfalls.

Keep up the good work, and I'm looking forward to hearing more!