Thread: RelaxAndDream´s Workbook

Welcome to Intro Class, RelaxandDream!

when i use mantras should i say to myself i will remember all my dreams and wake up after every dream before going to bed at first and in my WBTB then say i will have a lucid dream? because if i say the last affirmation just at the beginning of the night there is to many time between the first long and vivid dreams and i dont wake up so often?
-when i mean it realy serious and write every dream in detail down i am awake like 4 times a night for like 30mins... this is exausting. would you say it is realy realy good so i should do it anyway or can i start at 6 am for the last draems i have?

If you have relatively good recall, which in my definition is remembering your last dream and maybe the dreams before the last dream, then you may skip the "I remember my dreams" mantra and go straight for the "I have a lucid dream/I realize this is a dream" or whatever sounds good for you in German. You can repeat this mantra before bed and also after your natural or alarm wakes after couple of hours of sleep.

As far as journalling is concerned, I recommend a selective approach. For example, you go to bed, sleep 4-5 hrs, have a natural wake - if you want to do a longer wbtb, you can use the time to write your dreams, if you only want a short wbtb, then perhaps write down a sensence or two to help you recall later. Then when you wake for the day, you can do some expanded journalling relating to the last dream you had. Again, it's all dependent on how much time you can spend on it.

Thank you for your answer.
I tried this night SSID. See my post: http://www.dreamviews.com/induction-...ml#post2159769
i will try to write down the last and the new LD down here in english. Maby it helps and someone/you can see on what to work on.

i emphasis how good results i have with recaping my day before sleeping. It gets more detailed and detailed every day. Yesterday i need about 45min.... because it was so detailed and not because my concentration shifts... at the beginning i´ve always startet with my wakening and continued till sleeping but now i do it the other way round + i think of it as a dream. because if you try to remember dreams its the same approache like what did i do before that and before that.
Because of this i can remember now transitions in Dreams that are not really logical or changes in scenes which where before an dead end in recapitulation of my dreams.
but again if i dont repeat my dream immediately after the dream or i fall asleep right away the next day i can´t remember it anymore or just realy tiny bits... thats sad...

is this a thing that gets better with practice or is it just a natural phenomenon you can not change?

i will try your selective approach and i think i just need to lern the right keywords to remeber the whole thing

When you recap your day, as well as dreams it might be easier to start recalling the last event/dream first and then workbackwards.

Good job with the work so far. I think all skills can be increased with practice, but possibly up to a certain level.

Also, congrats on the ld!

Here are the answers to your questions from the other thread:

possible to dream about SP right?

Yes, it is possible to dream about SP and experience this phenomena both in real bed or in the dream. But don't worry, if you are unable to move for a moment, just wait it out.

-How do you do RC without moving? Because if i am nearly dream and i am not sure if i still awake or alrdy in FA i want to do an RC but if am am still awake and move my arm for example i would do a step backwards to falling asleep? I´ve tried the "think about how your room looks why you are here and where you been five minutes ago" but i think it kind of don´t work when i am in between the worlds?!

If you see your room, you can have a look at the clock and see if the numbers make sense. If you are in darkness, then it's best to wait for a dream scene to appear. You can also try alternative RCs like using telekinesis on objects, or imagine yourself floating up.

-Is it possible to lay down in a Dream to fall asleep and don´t have an FA or something but a "normal" Dream in the Dream and after Dreaming it waking up again in the previous dream?! O.o or did i dream the one dream before the other and just think it was in the dream and not before

Sure, all combinations are possible. Be sure to use RCs in order to catch FAs and also ask yourself where you were the moment before.

there a good thread about sleep pattern? How to determin my REM-Phases etc? Is this consistent? Like always after 5h i start an new REM-phase etc?
i startet 6h after getting to bed. what would have been if i would start 5 or 4 or maby 7 h later? is there a correlation like the sooner the...
i can´t find anything about this here? would be nice to know how my sleep works.

The general theory is that each cycle lasts for 90mins on average. But this is an average and some cycles will be longer or shorter. REM comes at the end of each cycle after the deeper NREM stages. The REM part of the cycle gets longer the more hours of sleep pass. This is one of the reasons, we recommend to do the wbtb after 4-6 hrs of sleep as REM will be longer at that stage - i.e. more and longer dreams. There is no rule on how to calculate this so you can experiment what times are best for you. Everyone is different.

Hello again,
i have made some new experiences i want to share
the day before yesterday i had a very short Lucid Dream i did it with a WBTB SSILD:
I was in a Street and had in one hand a bouquet of parsley and in the other hand a clear film with flyers and aplications in it. I seem to be a salesman and i see a woman sitting next to the Street. I pretend to know whats going on in her head and say to her i knew she has a lot of nightmares and they´re repeating again and again and i have the solution because i sell Dream insurances.... I tell her a little about it and even if i dont use the word i try to sell her lucid dreams so she can manage her nightmares. she seems interested but looks often behind her because she needs to get her bus. Then she stands up and go for her bus and i scuff into a shop and while scuffing asking myself why am i scuffing? Then lucid! I enter the shop which seems to be an photoshop but i dont see any articles. I want to talk right away with the saleswoman but there is a long line and i dont want to disturb. i turn around and lay down my bouqet and while thinking about that i should stabilize the dream and how i could do this aaaaand i wake up...

last night:
i´ve tried again a WBTB after 4h of sleep. i woke up by myself. I´ve tried first SSILD and then WILD to stay up. But it didnt work and i just got 2 NLD.
At 8 am (after 7h of sleep) i give it another try and it kind of worked. Dont know if it was a rly successful WILD but i got somehow lucid. But the quality and the memory is pretty bad. I was in the kitchen and there were where a lot of groceries on the Table. I rubbed my hand to stabilize the dream but only half hearthed i think and then thought to pick something up and feel the structure so i picked up something in plastik but it wasnt a vivid feeling. i think i woke up afterwards.
I think i kind of managed some DEILDS because i have had atleast two more short LD. The middle one i cant remember at all and the second one was:
i am on a street and do RC like hell because i know i´m dreaming but get realy confused by the hole waking up and dreaming again thing happening... (there where some moments where i was still in the dream but saw myself lying in my bed) merken
so i am there on the street and put of my backpack because i dont need it... i decide to float and it works i start to fly into the sky but after like 4 meters i realize i just dont have an idea where to go and everything around me gets grey like in a cloud. i decide to just fall down until i see again and i change perspective and see from down the street how i fall after some seconds down on the ground (but not really hard) i stand up and see an female friend of mine on the other side of the street. i go to her kiss her and wake up for good because its already 11am and i am no more tired.

So good thing is: two nights in a row LD with my SSILD WILD hybrid. But both where even shorter then my first lucids and they where not really vivid and especially the two of this night where disappointing... i don´t get it why i woke up so often? I noticed the day before and at the last LD this night that i woke up and had unregular breath. So maby to excited? But in the dream i didn´t feel excited this much or at least not more then the LD´s i had before and they where way more stable and vivid...

i have a guess but i dont know. I was really really tired on the first LD night because the night before that i sleeped not much and so maby i just was too exhausted (mentaly) to get the LD right? But i still remember some dreams of that night and till the moment i got lucid it felt like a good quality dream. and i think if i am really really tired i wouldnt wake up at nights or wouldnt remember my dreams because my body would just say fuck it? or is my intention for LD stronger then my desire to sleep?
and tonight i just don´t know? today i still feel tired even after 10h of sleep and somewhat i carry on a little cold which dont want to burst out but is somewhat present the last days...

Other thing: The method i used was first the typical SSILD as directed and then i rolled over to the side i sleep and tried to "stay up" with wild (try with counting to stay concious) but i think in last instance my WILD dont work because i can´t remember the dream build up/transition i was just there in a dream? or does this count as a wild even if i am unconcious for say some minutes?

because the first time i just slept and had NLD i tried a modification the second attempt and i did i use mantras after SSILD like: the next time i see something different than now (while focusing my eyes) i know i dream, the next time i hear something diffrentent than this (while focusing on my hearing) i know i dream and so on. might have worked. after that i started again counting for wild.

Do you think it makes sense to do both or should i just fall asleep after my SSILD? or if i really want to learn WILD (would be nice) i dont need the SSILD before? i think SSILD is kind of my backup if my WILDS dont work. (which i am not sure if they work)

and i have another question to WILD: They say it is about falling asleep and don´t stay awake but keeping your mind focused on e.g. counting. When i count i notice sometimes to miss my number and drift away and i go back and start counting again but then i fall asleep at some point because i dont to focus to much. But i think if i would try harder/focus more i wouldn´t fall asleep at all? or do i need to count backwards or concentrate more to make it more difficult so i stay more awake? i think i dont understand the fall asleep but dont fall asleep thing xD how do my mind stay awake but still fall asleep so a dream builds up? a week earlier or so i tried WILD to and i think i was to exited and paid to much attention for bodysensetions like SP (now i know its nothing to wait or watch for) so i dont anymore. so that didnt work but. so if i dont pay attantion to my body at all but really really stay awake in my mind with something that e.g. bother me i then would be successful? or do my mind kind of needs to get tired too?

i noticed after my relaxation and the SSILD when i turn on the side i have this huge urge to strech. i dont because i think this is a good sign that my body is falling asleep?

thanks for help again

And again i have good news
Tonight i´ve had a short LD after SSILD WILD. This time i would say it was a real WILD... This time it was pretty exhausting because i didn´t want to fall asleep unconscious right away so i stayed up a bit longer ( about 40min, unintentionally, i wrote down a dream which seem to be a bit longer...) and than did again my SSILD voodoo followed by WILD. This time i count from 100 down and visualized the nummers (which worked pretty well) i noticed here and there i was distracted but because of the visualization it was easier to find back where i stoped counting. after each number i thought "i am dreaming" dont know if it is necessary next time i may try to just count. But now like i thought it would be i was more conscious and anxious not to fall asleep unconscious and so i managed after all to hit 1... and dumb thing i think i kind of got excited because what do you do if you hit zero xD... suddenly it got to warm under my blanket and i needed to put out my arm. i noticed more and more often i was somewhere in between and i saw for example my browser with a tap open dreamview or even heard a distand voice for a short period of time. but everytime i get an visual i "twich" and was a little more awake than before... i then tried counting again but always the same effect. i was to focused on realizing the moment i enter the dreamworld... i´ve then tried to imagine while counting to swing forth and back in my bed and i think i moved my eyes left and right which kind of worked too but again to focused when pictures or thoughts come up. i´ve tried to see through my closed eyes and to levitate in my bed but everything was to forced... i´ve tried it because i´ve read somewhere you need to see a dream where you can enter...
i then decided to just try to fall asleep again so i turned on my other side and did one or two more SSILD cycles. after some time wanting to sleep but still not giving up for 100% i was somehow really awake so i thought maby to do an RC and somewhat i finaly was in my LD....FINALLY^^
I got up and did some RC´s. and thought i would take my blanked and try to feel it intensly so my dream got stable. i then decided to jump out of my window and start exploring but everytime i want to jump i get scared "What if i´m not dreaming and really jump out of the fukin window?" so i did some more RC and looked around for proof. i tried btw thumb through palm for the first time. it was funny because i didnt trained it before so i had no expectation how it should look like. i pushed and pushed and somhow my skin everted on the other side and it was pretty obvious but i still catched me thinkin hm is this enough or is it still normal xD but enough of the RC´s i then was sure enough and jumped out of the window
i tried to jump on a bus but i didnt work so i run to the busstop but the thing started to ride away i run alongside and opened the door and jumped in. the busdriver was kind of complaning but i ignored him. (he should have just wait for a sec ) i then decided to talk to an DC (indended it before because i wanted to see what happen and i wanted to ask if she/he has something for me). i run thru the bus which now is a traffic streetcar and i want to decide to whom to talk. some faces dont look nice some look out of the window so i dont see them. after some steps everyone is turning their face away from me so i snap with my finger so they look. and it even worked . i see three girls, two of them don´t look friendly but one seems nice and i think i saw her before. i sit next to her and i start with: Hi. and she replies with a hi and how are you. i say fine bla bla.
after some time the image gets dark an i catch myself thinkin about my real body and i think i hear my roomate so this is the reason i wake up... in fact my roommate stil wasn´t up so i just tried to explain myself why i loose control instead doing something against it... i did one attempt by asking here if she has something for me. the visual gets clear again for like 3 seconds and then i hear her just saying something and i have a false awake. i kind of know but i have gum in my mouth what really irritates me so i loose my lucidity i then wake up for real and move imidiatly because i has the irresistable urge to strech... damn no DEILD this time
but still i am happy and stand up right away
i started my attempt at 7 am and woke up at 8:45 --> LD was max some minutes so damn i was way to long awake trying...

any suggestions how to get faster in transition to Dreamworld without loosing consciousness? and maby i was already long time dreaming (i dont think so but...) how to find it out faster? i mean doing everytime right away a RC would throw me back if i am not dreaming yet...
and i think its time to read some more about dreamstability and control... third lucid in a row not that vivid and long like i would like to...

Congrats on the successes, RelaxandDream! Looks like you're getting the hang of induction pretty well so far. Mantras plus SSILD in any order is a good combination. Don't worry about the dream lenght, with more practice, you will be able to stay in the dream world for longer.

any suggestions how to get faster in transition to Dreamworld without loosing consciousness? and maby i was already long time dreaming (i dont think so but...) how to find it out faster? i mean doing everytime right away a RC would throw me back if i am not dreaming yet...
and i think its time to read some more about dreamstability and control... third lucid in a row not that vivid and long like i would like to...

I don't have any tips on how to make the process faster, because it is really about finding that balance between being asleep in body and gently awake in mind. That sounds confusing, doesn't it. My best advice is to try to relax your body as much as possible, while focusing on an anchor. The anchor could be anything, whether it is a single thought or an image or a sound. Perhaps you could experiment by visualing a desired dream scene other than your room and hold that image until it becomes more substantial, i.e. until you enter it.