Thread: Why do doctors dismiss astral or OBE's ?

Over the years when I've spoken to doctors about my sleep paralysis or the vibration that occurs during an episode they just dismiss it as an anxiety or psycho-emotional related symptom, poor sleep or a sleep disorder.

Why is this so ?

Well, its because AP or OBE isn't accepted as real in the scientific community, really. Anyway, why do they say disorder... it happens to everyone, do you have it regularly?

Originally Posted by Walms

do you have it regularly?

I get it a few times a month, which for me isn't often enough, I wish I had it more often because I quite enjoy the experience.

The events always vary, so if I miss out on an OBE I have to wait till the next time I get woken up to a sleep paralysis which could take weeks and sometimes it occurs at such a subconcious level that I dont even realise the potential of the moment and force myself to try and shake out of it, and its only after I've woken up I realise the mistake I made by by forcing myself out of it. Other times when it feels a lot more clearer I dont freak out as much and instead I go with it and endure all the vibrations and the loud static sounds until I end up rolling out of my body and see myself floating around my room and then out of my house to explore the street in an Astral body.

Hi Fuzzy,

Welcome to Dreamviews!

As of right now, an episode of sleep paralysis is classified as a sleep disorder in the DSM-IV (aka the big book of mental disorders). Nearly everyone has sleep paralysis every now and then, so while it is in the DSM-IV, it is considered normal unless you have it so frequently that you can't get enough restful sleep.

Doctors and scientists try to go by the laws of science. While some of us have beliefs about our personal experiences, it is the job of a scientist to only go by things which can be verified through the scientific method and dismiss anything that cannot be proven this way. It is a very good thing, because we want to be sure that the drugs we take or the technologies we use will actually work. But it can also be frustrating to those of us who may have had spiritual experiences when they are dismissed.

If you're interested in reading it, Stephen Laberg, a researcher famous for his work on lucid dreaming, wrote a long paper about out of body experiences. What you find there will likely be the most liberal interpretation of OBEs in the science community.

Having said that, when it comes to personal beliefs and experiences, everyone is entitled to having their own.

Thank you for that link Naiya, I had no realised it was in fact classified as a mental disorder.

Originally Posted by Naiya

Hi Fuzzy,

Welcome to Dreamviews!

As of right now, an episode of sleep paralysis is classified as a sleep disorder in the DSM-IV (aka the big book of mental disorders). Nearly everyone has sleep paralysis every now and then, so while it is in the DSM-IV, it is considered normal unless you have it so frequently that you can't get enough restful sleep.

Doctors and scientists try to go by the laws of science. While some of us have beliefs about our personal experiences, it is the job of a scientist to only go by things which can be verified through the scientific method and dismiss anything that cannot be proven this way. It is a very good thing, because we want to be sure that the drugs we take or the technologies we use will actually work. But it can also be frustrating to those of us who may have had spiritual experiences when they are dismissed.

If you're interested in reading it, Stephen Laberg, a researcher famous for his work on lucid dreaming, wrote a long paper about out of body experiences. What you find there will likely be the most liberal interpretation of OBEs in the science community.

Having said that, when it comes to personal beliefs and experiences, everyone is entitled to having their own.

Stephen experiment wasn't really scientific at all. In fact, he really doesn't believe in OBEs if you read other texts by him. He never actually tested to see if any information can be verified to validate that the subjects were truly out of their body. He only asked them questions as to what they experienced. Even Robert Monroe had a hard time proving he was really leaving his body. Most of the time people think they have left their body, they are only dreaming they did.

Originally Posted by kingofhypocrites

Stephen experiment wasn't really scientific at all. In fact, he really doesn't believe in OBEs if you read other texts by him. He never actually tested to see if any information can be verified to validate that the subjects were truly out of their body. He only asked them questions as to what they experienced. Even Robert Monroe had a hard time proving he was really leaving his body. Most of the time people think they have left their body, they are only dreaming they did.

Don't get me wrong--I've had a lot of OBEs myself and do believe they are something more. Unfortunately as far as the Monroe institute goes, I'm not sure their work is accepted by mainstream science yet. Like I said, LaBerg's view of OBE is generally as liberal as the science community will get at the moment. Hopefully we will see more study on the subject in the future, but as you said, right now you would be hard-pressed to find much rigorous testing of OBEs and astral projection.

I hate it when people confuse normal dreams with OBEs.

Sleep paralysis and vibrations are all part of the sleep process. Just becuase your in sleep paralysis doesn't mean your having an OBE. Personally I don't believe they're even possible, but even people who do will tell you that these experiences happen for regular dreams as well. Doctors see them as stress related becuase generally your not suppose to notice them. Lucid dream induction techniques such as WILD can cause you to experience them while awake. This is completely normal and in no was dangerous.

Originally Posted by Naiya

Hi Fuzzy,

Welcome to Dreamviews!

As of right now, an episode of sleep paralysis is classified as a sleep disorder in the DSM-IV (aka the big book of mental disorders). Nearly everyone has sleep paralysis every now and then, so while it is in the DSM-IV, it is considered normal unless you have it so frequently that you can't get enough restful sleep.

Doctors and scientists try to go by the laws of science. While some of us have beliefs about our personal experiences, it is the job of a scientist to only go by things which can be verified through the scientific method and dismiss anything that cannot be proven this way. It is a very good thing, because we want to be sure that the drugs we take or the technologies we use will actually work. But it can also be frustrating to those of us who may have had spiritual experiences when they are dismissed.

If you're interested in reading it, Stephen Laberg, a researcher famous for his work on lucid dreaming, wrote a long paper about out of body experiences. What you find there will likely be the most liberal interpretation of OBEs in the science community.

Having said that, when it comes to personal beliefs and experiences, everyone is entitled to having their own.

Very nice answer! (The whole thing.) Nicely put indeed!

Doctor's aren't really trained to use their imaginations. They have very strict rules about what they can and can not accept as reality. They aren't really allowed to speculate.

I could never live like that. Always having to ask my peers what I'm allowed to think and what I'm allowed to talk about. It would be like middle school all over again.

Don't take it personally. If you asked the same doctors privately (in a non-professional setting), they might give you a different answer.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

Doctor's aren't really trained to use their imaginations. They have very strict rules about what they can and can not accept as reality. They aren't really allowed to speculate.

I could never live like that. Always having to ask my peers what I'm allowed to think and what I'm allowed to talk about. It would be like middle school all over again.

Don't take it personally. If you asked the same doctors privately (in a non-professional setting), they might give you a different answer.

I'd much rather prefer that my doctors and engineers follow rules and empirical knowledge instead of pure imagination.

"Oops, it seems that draining out all your blood resulted in death instead of curing you like I had imagined."