Thread: Does "Killing People with Kindness" really work??

Originally Posted by Majestic

How does this benefit you.

stop thinking about how it benefits you, and just try and help the other person. they're hateful for a reason. help fix it.

Philosophy might be a good place for it.

sometimes.

It "works" because you don't create more suffering for yourself by resisting the situation and trying to force them to be something they aren't.

It can also work because people who act like assholes are generally so caught up in their own thoughts that they aren't consciously interacting with what is, they aren't in the moment in other words. So by giving them space and treating them with compassion you can sometimes bring them into the moment, or at least lessen their momentum/bad karma whatever you wanna call it.

You don't ignore them, you just don't react to them. When you react you create suffering for yourself, you get upset and act based on that rather than on what is, what will have the greatest effect now.

Originally Posted by stonedape

sometimes.

It "works" because you don't create more suffering for yourself by resisting the situation and trying to force them to be something they aren't.

It can also work because people who act like assholes are generally so caught up in their own thoughts that they aren't consciously interacting with what is, they aren't in the moment in other words. So by giving them space and treating them with compassion you can sometimes bring them into the moment, or at least lessen their momentum/bad karma whatever you wanna call it.

You don't ignore them, you just don't react to them. When you react you create suffering for yourself, you get upset and act based on that rather than on what is, what will have the greatest effect now.

thanks. this was the answer i was looking for. It takes a lot of courage and strength to do that.

Mmm, I think assholes are going to be assholes. Sometimes they make fun of people FOR being kind, so it's a viscous circle. It might be best to ignore them. I feel they deserve no attention. If it's affection or attention they want, they'll eventually learn that being hateful is not the way.

From my experience no. If they are mean and hateful you should kick their ass if you can't just get the fuck away from them if you can. If they are in a position to control you, you must give them what they deserve when the time is right.

Originally Posted by saltyseedog

From my experience no. If they are mean and hateful you should kick their ass if you can't just get the fuck away from them if you can. If they are in a position to control you, you must give them what they deserve when the time is right.

How very un-peaceful of you. No one deserves to have their ass kicked, no matter how evil they are.
Acting in violence makes you equally wrong as them, plus, it's plain hypocrisy.

I think loving others in the face of supreme adversity is the ultimate show of self-discipline. When I was meditating the other day I realized that its easier to love everything (please dont laugh) and I feel much happier for it. There are certain monks and people ive met who can stare at you with a loving gaze and all bad emotions for them simply melt away, its an amazing experience.

-Evan

I agree completely with Evan, and your first statement is powerful.
Responding to hate with hate will hold one back from happiness.
There are many ways to say it, the right path is obvious.

If someone is a dick hole to you, its only natural to get angry. I am always nice. But when someone provokes me with hate, I do not respond in a nice way because they probably don't care.

Originally Posted by saltyseedog

If someone is a dick hole to you, its only natural to get angry. I am always nice. But when someone provokes me with hate, I do not respond in a nice way because they probably don't care.

In doing so you increase the likelyhood of you yourself becoming a dick hole.

On top of this you create negative emotions and thought patterns in yourself wich is just more suffering for you. Break the chain at it's root link.

Originally Posted by JamesIsDreaming

I agree completely with Evan, and your first statement is powerful.
Responding to hate with hate will hold one back from happiness.
There are many ways to say it, the right path is obvious.

IMO some people need to be held back a little to finally move forward. Learning from expierience and getting the truth straight in their face is a good motivator. You can't be truely happy unless you can overcome the darkness, or you're a half empty shell IMO.

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

IMO some people need to be held back a little to finally move forward. Learning from expierience and getting the truth straight in their face is a good motivator. You can't be truely happy unless you can overcome the darkness, or you're a half empty shell IMO.

I see, and I agree with that, but in a non-violent way. Conversation is an fundamental aspect of reaching truth.
From my earlier posts, I meant giving them attention in a way that fuels them or responding hatefully.
No one has to be violent or vengeful in order to explain to them that their actions are wrong, ya know?

Most human interactions are not very present-minded or spontaneous. Particularly on first meetings or limited acquaintance, there are a handful of roles people are likely to adopt, and just a few scripts they are likely to act out. When someone adopts the role of asshole or instigator, the most predictable response--the response that most reinforces their narrow view of what is possible in human interaction--is to get angry. If you do get angry, you're letting the 'asshole' lead the dance, but really it's not even that person directing the encounter, because they're just acting out a habitual pattern which you have affirmed and reinforced by playing your role in it. So, unless you take control of the situation in a way that stops the script from playing out, no one is in control of the situation, and the pattern of aggression is strengthened in each of you.

To "kill them with kindness" is a better reaction than anger, and may be unexpected enough to derail the script of confrontation and aggression, but is sometimes done in a way that maintains distance from and carries a certain contempt for the aggressor, in effect saying, "Look, I'm not an asshole like you." In some cases, that attitude will only encourage the other person to persist in the their chosen role. The most effective way to meet any pose people strike or gambit they attempt in encountering you is to be fully present--not acting on any script--and approach them with compassion.

Compassion in this case does not mean "being nice," but recognizing mutual identity with the person. The roots of the word "compassion" are synonymous with those of "conspiracy," despite the very different connotations: to share breath, or breathe together. When you have connected to the person and bound them to you in mutual identity, they cannot proceed under the premise, "I am an asshole." They would have to include you in the assertion, "We are assholes," which, when you have met their aggression with compassion, they are no longer willing to do. The asshole role and its accompanying strategies of engagement then appear inherently weaker and less appealing to the person as a result of your encounter, and you have reduced the amount of aggression in the world.

Have a cookie

I think I'm gonna make some cookies now, that sounds sooo good.

The problem with 'hate' is, what defines hate?
All it takes is the person to perceive something as wrong or take something personally. What if someone is being hard on you to be kind?

Originally Posted by Loaf

The problem with 'hate' is, what defines hate?

a negative emotion that you designate as bad.
usually more passionate or intense, according to dictionary.

but it's a self-defined sin. most know they've been hateful, and most realize that they shouldn't be.

All it takes is the person to perceive something as wrong or take something personally. What if someone is being hard on you to be kind?

sure, but that's their definition of hateful. be sure to have a good reason why you're taking something someone says to heart.

of course emotions are subjective.
and hate is an emotion.

Originally Posted by Taosaur

Most human interactions are not very present-minded or spontaneous. Particularly on first meetings or limited acquaintance, there are a handful of roles people are likely to adopt, and just a few scripts they are likely to act out. When someone adopts the role of asshole or instigator, the most predictable response--the response that most reinforces their narrow view of what is possible in human interaction--is to get angry. If you do get angry, you're letting the 'asshole' lead the dance, but really it's not even that person directing the encounter, because they're just acting out a habitual pattern which you have affirmed and reinforced by playing your role in it. So, unless you take control of the situation in a way that stops the script from playing out, no one is in control of the situation, and the pattern of aggression is strengthened in each of you.

To "kill them with kindness" is a better reaction than anger, and may be unexpected enough to derail the script of confrontation and aggression, but is sometimes done in a way that maintains distance from and carries a certain contempt for the aggressor, in effect saying, "Look, I'm not an asshole like you." In some cases, that attitude will only encourage the other person to persist in the their chosen role. The most effective way to meet any pose people strike or gambit they attempt in encountering you is to be fully present--not acting on any script--and approach them with compassion.

Compassion in this case does not mean "being nice," but recognizing mutual identity with the person. The roots of the word "compassion" are synonymous with those of "conspiracy," despite the very different connotations: to share breath, or breathe together. When you have connected to the person and bound them to you in mutual identity, they cannot proceed under the premise, "I am an asshole." They would have to include you in the assertion, "We are assholes," which, when you have met their aggression with compassion, they are no longer willing to do. The asshole role and its accompanying strategies of engagement then appear inherently weaker and less appealing to the person as a result of your encounter, and you have reduced the amount of aggression in the world.

Have a cookie

hey Tao, this was a good answer.

What about self-centered people..the people always focused on themselves and their problems...it just drains your energy having to hear their mouth ALL the time. What do you do when you can't remove yourself from the situation. Even when you try showing them attention, they still persist on complaining or carrying on with a negative attitude. Energy-vampires if you will. It's like their negativity overpowers any positivity or optimism you may bring. It's overwhelming and leaves you tired and depressed yourself.

Originally Posted by Majestic

hey Tao, this was a good answer.

What about self-centered people..the people always focused on themselves and their problems...it just drains your energy having to hear their mouth ALL the time. What do you do when you can't remove yourself from the situation. Even when you try showing them attention, they still persist on complaining or carrying on with a negative attitude. Energy-vampires if you will. It's like their negativity overpowers any positivity or optimism you may bring. It's overwhelming and leaves you tired and depressed yourself.

The best thing to do is ignore them or just bear with it to the amount that is acceptable to the person or situation until you don't have to deal with it any longer. If you don't like being around someone and you can leave without any real serious negative consiquinces in your life or whatever. Just get the fuck away from them. There is no reason to hang around people you don't like and feel uncomfortable around if you don't need to.

Also normally if someone is an asshole to me. I normally:
a. get the fuck away from them.
b. Deal with it if its something I can't avoid at the moment.
c. Kick some ass if its appropriate for the situation. But not just get angry and argue. I hate arguing. I would rather just deck someone who is acting like a complete ass and insists on making you or others miserable.
d. say something nice in an attempt to bring their anger down, if that seems possible.

I never show my anger outwardly or directly, I don't like confrontations or see the point of it. let everything be is what i think

Originally Posted by erible

I never show my anger outwardly or directly, I don't like confrontations or see the point of it. let everything be is what i think

I do the same thing but it's not always healthy. In some situations it can make you act passive-agressive if you aren't completely at peace with what is.

Originally Posted by Majestic

hey Tao, this was a good answer.

What about self-centered people..the people always focused on themselves and their problems...it just drains your energy having to hear their mouth ALL the time. What do you do when you can't remove yourself from the situation. Even when you try showing them attention, they still persist on complaining or carrying on with a negative attitude. Energy-vampires if you will. It's like their negativity overpowers any positivity or optimism you may bring. It's overwhelming and leaves you tired and depressed yourself.

Crazy wisdom. Do something that breaks up their negative emotional flow.

Originally Posted by stonedape

I do the same thing but it's not always healthy. In some situations it can make you act passive-agressive if you aren't completely at peace with what is.

I know :/ I can be passive aggressive sometimes, and when I am, I notice it...I try not to get angry at all though which helps, I just re think the situation, that always is good

Originally Posted by erible

I never show my anger outwardly or directly, I don't like confrontations or see the point of it. let everything be is what i think

You need to express your anger. Otherwise it sits inside you eating away at your soul.

Originally Posted by saltyseedog

You need to express your anger. Otherwise it sits inside you eating away at your soul.

I don't really get angry anymore. I used to get my anger out by self harming...I haven't done that in a while though

It doesn't work don't even try it. I know from self experience.