Can't Get Back To Sleep On Galantamine? No Problem.

[dreamcatcher81]

I've had this issue for quite sometime now and I finally worked through it. A low dose of a 1mg Melotonin pill is the solution for going back to bed on galantamine. In my experience I found that melotonin doesn't really supress my REM sleep, I can still dream it's just that Im in deeper more relaxed sleep state. Melotonin taken at high dosages with galantamine essentially cancels the galantamine out & ends up only providing me with non lucid dreams that I more then likely will have a hard time remembering when I wake. The same cancelation effect happened when I took a low dose of melotonin(1mg) and a low dose of galantamine (4g). The formula that worked for me was a low dose of melotonin (1mg) and a higher dose of Galantamine (8mg). It was in this way I had no problem getting back to sleep and walking right into a dream lucid that lasted about 50 mins according to my watch this morning but felt like 10 mins of elapsed dream time. :-)

[gab]

Thanks for this info. Have you tried lover dose of melatonin? Like 0.3 or 0.5 mgs? And the lucid you had was WILD?

[dreamcatcher81]

Hey. Gab. I use to take 5mg of melatonin Nightly so 1mg is on the extreme low end for me and works quite effectively. The dream I had was absolutely a W.l.L.D. Never lost consciousness and I watched the dream scene develop right before for me with in seconds.

[gab]

Hey. Gab. I use to take 5mg of melatonin Nightly so 1mg is on the extreme low end for me and works quite effectively. The dream I had was absolutely a W.l.L.D. Never lost consciousness and I watched the dream scene develop right before for me with in seconds. I'm only asking, because according to Yuschak, 0.3 mgs is enough to help you fall asleep. But I understand, if you taking larger dose daily, than 0.3 would not be enough for you. I'm thinking if melatonin would help me fall asleep deeper, so I don't wake up too soon from my WILD. I never took melatonin before, so I think I'll start with 0.3mgs. Thanks again. Happy dreams

[Darkmatters]

You know what - I think I'm going to test the Yuschak theory that melatonin causes REM suppression. Whenever I've taken it I always woke up from dreams - of course I've never taken as much as a 'normal' dose, I always cut mine up to doses approximating .3-.5mg. I think tonight I'll take a full normal dose (not sure - I think mine is 3mg?) and hopefully I wake after 2 hours or so as I normally do these days (since recently setting my intention to wake after every dream). Because obviously, if it does cause REM suppression for a number of hours, then it would be extremely counterproductive to take it during a WBTB along with galantamine. At least a full 'normal' dose of it (which are ridiculously strong and completely unnecessary from what I understand - but I hate having to cut it up into small pieces - or in my case more like plies of dust). If I could just take a single tablet and still be able to go directly into a dream that would be ideal. L-theanine incidentally does allow dreams immediately and seems to work as well for me as melatonin.

[gab]

You know what - I think I'm going to test the Yuschak theory that melatonin causes REM suppression. I don't think he said it supresses dreaming, but lucid dreaming. Not sure though, have to check the book. EDIT: OK, you were right, he does say REM suppressant. But only higher doses, like 3mgs. This should suppress REM for 4 hrs. But he says, that 0.3 mgs is enough to induce sleep and at this dose it doesn't supresses REM. This is where I got the LDing thing: "It's important to keep the dose low, as I did notice a reduced chance in becoming lucid even at o.5 mgs." I was just gonna try melatonin to help me fall asleep deeper. Maybe not even with GM, just for my morning nap rituals.

[Darkmatters]

Ok, it sounds like you're using it differently. But if a 1mg tablet does suppress REM for a few hours then obviously the OP needs a little revisin'

[gab]

He doesn't really specify, he just says that his guess would be that you would need a 3mg dose to supress REM for 4-5 hrs. But I have taken 5-htp and didn't really notice any REM suppression. I guess we are all different and have to find out what works for us best. Too bad Yuschak is the only one with research like this. We have nothing to compare with.

[Darkmatters]

Yeh same here - by the time I wake up at 4.5 - 5 hrs after taking melatonin or 5HTP Im definitely dreaming away, but I don't know if I've ever woke after just 1.5 or 2 hrs before with either of those. Now that I usually do I'm going to try them both and see (though it's possible it might prevent me from waking after 1st REM.)

[dreamcatcher81]

I'm thinking if melatonin would help me fall asleep deeper, so I don't wake up too soon from my WILD. I never took melatonin before, so I think I'll start with 0.3mgs. Thanks again. Happy dreams I think your right Gab, my dream was very stable compared to when I don't take melatonin and have a lucid dream. There was definitely a sense of calm the whole time I was dreaming. I know GM is effective as a stand alone lucid aid. Im curious to see if 1mg of melatonin can consistently put me back to sleep on GM during the early morning hours, which is the time I dream most. :-) I'll try again as soon as the GM Clears my system. I'm leaning towards 72hrs before my next trail. :-)

[Darkmatters]

Took a 3mg melatonin last night before bed, woke after approx 1/2 an hour or so and I swear I could remember a dream, but instantly it slipped away from my memory and I was no longer able to remember what it was about. This messes with my head on several levels - a dream after only 1/2 hr of sleep? Next time I won't count it unless I can clearly remember details, and I'll write down what happens while I'm awake so there's no chance I dreamed it or anything (I mean that later in the night I dream of waking from a dream after 1/2 hr of sleep or something. I'm pretty sure I didn't dream it last night though).

[Darkmatters]

Ok, nailed it this time! Took another 3mg melatonin tablet and this time I woke after about 50 minutes of sleep clearly remembering a detailed dream that I wrote down in my journal. It was within 50 minutes - possibly a little less as I can't be sure precisely when I fell asleep. At 10:30 I was still awake but very near sleep, and at 11:20 I woke up from a clear and vivid dream. Oh, I took the melatonin at about 9:50 just for completeness. I'll type it up in my online DJ and link it here. Then I'll also be trying the test without melatonin to see if I get similar results. So not only does it look like melatonin isn't repressing REM for me, but I'm having a dream in well under the 90 minute mark. Weird.. Link to DJ entry: http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/dark...olution-44965/

[PlanesWalker]

So not only does it look like melatonin isn't repressing REM for me, but I'm having a dream in well under the 90 minute mark. Weird.. Not as weird as you may think. Dreams are possible in non REM sleep as well as REM. As you have discovered.

[PlanesWalker]

It was in this way I had no problem getting back to sleep and walking right into a dream lucid that lasted about 50 mins according to my watch this morning but felt like 10 mins of elapsed dream time. :-) So you performed a WILD and continued Dreaming for the entire length of time?

[Darkmatters]

Not as weird as you may think. Dreams are possible in non REM sleep as well as REM. As you have discovered. I know, but my NREM dreams aren't like this - they're more like streams of thoughts or ideas with maybe a single unmoving visual, just one image or a pattern. This was a full-blown REM dream for sure. EDIT: Now that I really think about it - it might have been more like only 5 or 6 images with only slight movement linked together by the idea of a storyline.. weird. Maybe there are different levels of NREM dreams? Because this was kind of halfway between the NREM dreams I've experienced and a regular REM dream. The movement was very limited, not a slide show but more like one of those motion comics, if you've ever seen those. Slides that move only a little bit.

[dreamcatcher81]

So you performed a WILD and continued Dreaming for the entire length of time? Yes sirrrr! It was definitely a wake induced lucid dream that lasted almost an hour in real time. The galantamine makes it difficult to fall back to sleep sometimes because there is white flashes and a restless feeling. The 1mg of melatonin subdues the GM effect just enough to fall back to sleep relaxed. I went from being totally awake to sleepy and aware of slight vibrations to a full blown dream scene with in 5- 10 mins of taking the supplements. I'm also learning that the later rem periods after 8hrs of sleep are a optimal time for these dream supplements as the sleep is much lighter and closer to wakefulness. :-)

[Sageous]

... Maybe there are different levels of NREM dreams? Yup. Just like REM dreams, NREM "dreams" are limited only by your state of self-awareness and imagination. Though conscious delta sleep (aka NREM) experiences are at first glance extremely empty and dull, if you look at your time in delta as a blank slate, or opportunity to explore the "pause" before your dreaming mind kicks in, you will indeed discover different levels, as it were, and some very cool shit... PS: For what it's worth, and I guess for its OP relevance, I too tend to take my melatonin (when needed) the night before my LD session, as it has seemed to diminish REM. I take a bit more than 3mg, though, so that might make a difference. Also, if I'm exploring delta, I never take it, or gallantamine.

[gab]

Also, if I'm exploring delta, ... I wouldn't mind hearing about your delta explorations. Unless OP dreamcatcher minds.

[dreamcatcher81]

PS: For what it's worth, and I guess for its OP relevance, I too tend to take my melatonin (when needed) the night before my LD session, as it has seemed to diminish REM. I take a bit more than 3mg, though, so that might make a difference. Also, if I'm exploring delta, I never take it, or gallantamine. image.jpgimage.jpg I have a 5mg bottle that I use just to get some deep restful sleep after long days at work. I dont remember dream scenes but 2-3hrs after waking feels like 10 hours of sleep. The 1mg melatonin is a chewable cherry flavor pill useful for taking the edge off galantamine. :-)

[dreamcatcher81]

I wouldn't mind hearing about your delta explorations. Unless OP dreamcatcher minds. I don't mind Im all ears. :-)

[Sageous]

I wouldn't mind hearing about your delta explorations. Unless OP dreamcatcher minds. I don't feel right going so off topic here, I think, even with Dreamcatcher's approval, but I have been tossing about starting a thread on the subject (I haven't seen one here, ever, so maybe it's time to see if anyone cares about this interesting offshoot, side-effect, or perhaps potential of, LD'ing. I'll try to get something up in the next couple days.

[snoop]

I don't have access to galantamine, just huperzine a, so I can't really test this myself but I bet valerian would help take the edge off as well. I don't know if it suppresses rem as much as melatonin or if it even does at all. L-theanine is a pretty good choce too. 5-htp may work for some, but 5-htp doesn't make me sleepy. Most of the time I'm the same level of awake or sometimes even more awake.

[dreamcatcher81]

I don't have access to galantamine, just huperzine a, so I can't really test this myself but I bet valerian would help take the edge off as well. I don't know if it suppresses rem as much as melatonin or if it even does at all. L-theanine is a pretty good choce too. 5-htp may work for some, but 5-htp doesn't make me sleepy. Most of the time I'm the same level of awake or sometimes even more awake. If you stay in the states you do have access to galantamine specifically "GalantaMind" which is the supplement product I use. You probably have to order online as I did if your interested in trying though. You have many sleep aid options at your disposal, I personally like melatonin. :-)

[snoop]

It's my situation that doesn't allow me to get it. I'm in the Army and am not married or high enough rank to live off post. I don't want to have to explain why I'm having some drug sent to me or what it does, far too big of a hassle. The Army is cutting people as it is, I don't need to paint a target on myself. Thanks for the information though.

[Sageous]

^^ For what its worth, gallantamine hasn't yet been termed a drug (I think it an herbal extract from saffron), and its marketed use is for helping build up things like memory and cognitive performance. In essence, it's practically a vitamin supplement -- one that's far less potent than huperzine, BTW! I understand your misgivings, but if there were a way to actually communicate to your superiors what gallantamine was, they might be okay with it. I know the communication part can be a bitch, though!