Thread: iBAND+ A new EEG based dream headband

HAHAHA Excellent, NOW iWinks is finally starting to respond on their kickstarter! Good luck enforcing international IP rights on their meager budget and perpetually delayed schedule. Oh how I wish I donated $1 to them so I could write comments on the campaign. If iBand+ looks like they're going to get funded I will definitely kick in 5 euro for the opportunity to comment.

My thoughts exactly. I think a bit of competition is a good thing personally as it looks like the iBand is on course to be funded. I winks should wake up and smell the coffee.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

If iBand+ looks like they're going to get funded I will definitely kick in 5 euro for the opportunity to comment.

I wonder if anybody has or will back both?

I have backed the iBand+. Bit annoying as jumped in with I thought was almost the last 'Early Bird' (54% off) to see that they immediately added another 100. I think I will get my money's worth just knowing that I'm an early backer and seeing what happens, like watching an investment. I almost don't care if it actually works it will be fun playing with it if I ever get it.

Not sure but it does look like it's way further forward in the development process than the Aurora was when their kickstarter campaign was launched. At least they have some units with flashy lights to show - I'm easily impressed.

If it's ready in July 2017 and it works you are going to be sooo jealous.......

iWinks is now raging on the iBand+ comments board! Wow, look how active they've become in communication all of a sudden!

iWinks LLC
How is it possible that no one has mentioned the original kickstarter campaign from which this project has clearly plagiarized?

Now I've *got* to back iBand+ so I can rage back at iWinks!

Now I've *got* to back iBand+ so I can rage back at iWinks!

Go on.... you know you have to do it.
Pleased to see that so far the iWinks tantrum has been completely ignored.

Looking out for your comments.

Going by the iBand+ comments page it looks like iWinks are now trying a different ploy. The legal threats (publically) have gone, probably down to them having no proof. The tactic now is more a psychological one. Iwinks are making out their same (so-called) product already exists, so why bother making another. IWinks are probably trying to put people off I guess.

Iwinks should stop bitchin' about the competition and sort their own house out first.

^^ Absolutely.

I don't think I've ever seen one project trying so hard to torpedo a competing project. Sad. They should get off their butts and ship.

I have just posted a comment directed back at iWinks. Kept it polite but to the point.

Difficult one really: I was genuinely pleased for iWinks at the start but I went off them quite a bit after I saw the goalposts being moved somewhat. I saw this with the design and the changing slogan, etc. I think lucidity is secondary to them. The backers which gave them the chance to prove and market their idea were almost treated with contempt.

However, after saying all that I wouldn't want to see the product fail - this is for the backer's sakes only. Plus the whole concept of lucid dreaming tech would be on the line in the public domain or internet as far as John or Jane Doe are concerned. Back to the dark ages of 'pseudoscience'. The community doesn't need another Luci, nor probably another Reeme, or a bad reputation to the point where lucid dreaming=scam.

In one respect I think the notion of crowdfunding, esp. Kickstarter need to improve, as they are just as culpable for letting things get out of control.
Not that they can see the future - a project/company or idea should be vetted more throughly and the original slogan should stay if the product is funded.

I also don't want to see any LD project fail. But I have to say I'm extremely displeased with how the iWinks team has managed their KS campaign. Months in between updates, long delays. They have apparently fallen into the "we must make it perfect before we ship" trap. I worked for companies who failed for this reason. Hardware manufacturers need to "ship now, iterate [get going on the next version] quickly". Any one product will never reach perfection, but you can easily burn through your momentum and public good will by holding off on shipping for too long, allowing other competitors to beat you simply because they adopt the "ship now, iterate fast" methodology. iWinks seems to be doing this. And then they have the nerve to publish a marketing update full of happy adjectives and expletives ("The fun begins!") while simultaneously announcing another delay until Q2 2017! It creates a really slimy, untrustworthy impression.

Reading between the lines, I can only guess that their (Aurora) REM detection is inaccurate and the LD induction rate among early testers is terrible or non-existent.

The iBand+ KS campaign is doing well, they had a big weekend, they're now at 85% of their goal with 38 days to go. I think they're going to fund.

The iBand+ campaign looks like it is easily going to fund with over a month to go, which is exciting for me as a backer.

All the early birds have now been sold, but the extended early birds are still available at only 10euros more.

I hope iWinks are feeling ashamed of their tactics now. No further comments from them (yet). I agree with your analysis, I just hope iBand are different and ship on time.

Yep, they've reached their goal already with still more than a month to go. This will be an interesting ride.

Soon the realization, the hard work and the fun will all begin. Now that the target has been easily suppassed then I think the people behind iBand+ might add a stretch goal or two perhaps?
I think the posting stunt done by iWinks has backfired somewhat on themselves. Barring anything unseen happening campaign-wise, the Aurora now has competition.

I hope public relation lessons are learnt by both sides.

Hurts every time the herd jumps at these campaigns with 0 evidence! And the honest hard-working ones are ignored like DreamNet and yours truly.

An actual device, software suite and gigabytes of research? Na... lets go with anyone who remolds Remee and makes a video selling lucid dreaming.

The actress in the video did not wake up refreshed from the device - no red streaks from the headband or marks from the sensors! And the app running on her night-table is just a video playing full screen. Sure, I bet they still intend to write all that and start testing it out on non-hardcore hackers who will end up taking the thing off after 10 minutes, but before that let's get testimonials of people on the street wearing it for less than a minute...

iWinks posted a 50% lucidity rate years ago and haven't been able to upload a thing about it since they got their money.

Originally Posted by IAmCoder

iWinks posted a 50% lucidity rate years ago and haven't been able to upload a thing about it since they got their money.

iWinks just posted a comment that their "beta testers" did not report the LD effectiveness of the units because iWinks did not release the LD suite to them. But they'll provide access to the LD suite the day it is released Say what?! That's not beta testing. Maybe pre-alpha at best. More gems from HoodWinks, uh, I mean iWinks.

Scary thing I just noticed: KickStarter moved Luci to the Deep Web!

If you search Google for "luci" "kickstarter" the campaign doesn't come up. And if you go to the advanced search (https://www.google.com/advanced_search) and search "luci" on the KickStarter domain, it doesn't show up. Which means they intentionally programmed in a "noindex" tag or changed their robots.txt file to force search engines to ignore and hide it. It wasn't like that some time ago. I guess KickStarter wins every time!

IAmCoder - what product are you promoting? I presume it's a lucid dreaming device? If it actually works can you tell me about it please.

Na, its a sleep research device that monitors your eyes with a night-vision camera and then plays audio tracks. You can get the parts from Amazon (based on the Raspberry Pi and NoIR camera - surprisingly cheap) and download the software for free. But I am happy to pre-install and connect everything.

The old version still required a PC to be networked into the setup to run the software - that was putting most users off. But I have been working on making it standalone and am days from shipping the standalone version.

Here is a good write-up: https://luciddreamart.wordpress.com/...m-like-a-boss/ - also has a good story on the iWinks and iBand debacle! Good job H!
A lot has changed since - I removed the headband from the equation completely and as mentioned the computer. You can see some more GIFs on LSDBase. And yes, it only works when you are lying on your side facing the camera. But it is good LD practice to set an alarm for 4 am and then get into position...

Many thanks Mr Coder! Good to see you about the forums. I hope things are going well with you and your family.

I agree with you, there is a lot of video editing and other shennanigans that go on with these campaigns. I made the mistake of not backing the Aurora - meaning I could have pledged the min amount to comment on the site. A backer needs to call them out!

@FryingMan -You were right first time with HoodWinks. (I like that one). Ha ha.
Yes iStinks make me laugh. Their noses get bigger every day with the lies they put out.

@IAmcoder - The other worrying thing is Facebook timelines. The posts on them often disappear. The page administrator can get rid of the post/evidence and you lose the link to the original page. I always take a snapshot of the page for that reason, because you don't find such subdomains/directories on Archive.org
For example, if you look on the Kickstarter iBand+ comments page the inflammatory posts from iWinks have been removed by Kickstarter. You won't find them on Archive. Again snapshots are good records to keep, along with the correct date.

Cool. How extensible is it for choice of signaling via external device? E.g., LEDs, vibration, etc.? Can audio play over ear buds? It would be cool to have various optional wireless attachments that listen for a notification broadcast. How successful have you been at finding audio tracks that signal you in the dream but don't wake you up?

Very extensible. The old research version that connects to the PC already has a plug-out interface for all of the above (LEDs, vibration, etc.). The new standalone version will only do sound at first. Next will be flashing the screen / smart mirror on the raspi. For anything else just search Google for Rapsi + LEDs or vibration or your choice of signalling and it should just be a matter of copy-pasting or asking!

I found that a few of the shortest tracks are better. Here are some samples: lucid-code.com - /LSDBase/Anthems/Shortlist/
The long ones (one directory up) are nicer, but more likely to wake you up or go unnoticed. The short ones are more effective, especially when played a few times in a row with just a minute delay during a longer dream. Also better for DEILD if it wakes you up; where you visualize the ending of the dream with you taking conscious control and try to remain still so the neurotransmitters - perchance DMT, don't disperse.

@Highlander, great work on the snapshots! I have seen some very direct posts on the iWinks FB page pointing out the truth and trying to warn people to stop pre-ordering only to see them disappear. Check my snapshot link to the LUCI campaign from here: https://lsdbase.org/2013/11/21/2013-...es-of-a-crowd/ - I saved the entire page with all the comments as HTML, then sorted the comments. If you click on the date on any comment on my page, it links directly to the KickStarter page with the comment... you would never be able to access it otherwise, unless you scrolled for days.

If you search on KickStarter for Luci it also doesn't show the campaign. And even stranger is that DreamNet is also hidden from search engines. If you have the direct links you can still see it for now, but who knows how long that will last...

Regarding iWinks legal threats... very ironic. And sucks that the comment disappeared! If you dig out the DreamNet campaign - luckily still accessible from the link at the end of the article on your epic blog: http://luciddreamart.wordpress.com/tag/dreamnet - it can be seen that iWinks was not actually the first. Luci made both iWinks and DreamNet jump the gun. But my codez were already available on the app stores and real and the app in the DreamNet video could be downloaded by anyone and tested against the NeuroSky EEG headseat - the actual EEG manufacturer behind all this. I had 0 financial interest in DreamNet... just cared about the research and keeping it real / honest. One of the punks at iWinks used to work at NeuroSky. And NeuroSky sent me a free EEG device for my research. So they knew - my stuff was out there for free years before.

@IAmCoder
Oh yes I remember all the Luci debarcle, even though it was back in 2013. Wrong amplifier. Photoshopping. Alledged harrassment. Mysterious backer at the 11th hour. You couldn't make it up!
All the makings of a bad soap opera, a bestselling book or a film, starring Branjelina Pitt-DiCaprio.

Things are probably more succinct now-but I think some form of chicanery goes on to some degree. Lies and misleading tactics as well.
The other thing to look out for is the creator who backs his own project using an alias. Very tricky to see as the alias or name can be changed. (I copy/pasted the URL profile link of one guy who did it and I reported him to Kickstarter who were not even interested, even though it's against their policy.)

I remember Dreamnet. It was a pity it didn't fund. As you say people just seem to like the hype or the illusion of 'inception-like' lucid dream campaigns, with the hard sell, the slick video, etc.

The thing that annoys me most are the gadget and so-called 'tech' headliner sites that litter the web using click-bait. For example I saw one device purporting as "The netflix of lucid dreaming"! What utter nonsense, what BS - the device hadn't even been reviewed or made, let alone tested or released. (It was a pre-order for a brick made of lithium-ion based 'accumulators' [sic] and silicon with a few wires attached to stick on your head, working on the principle of placebo only).

Getting on the subject of iWinks; I think they still use NeuroSky as the EEG amp? Along with the 'magic' AI pat-pending algorithm. As you point out, your software/algorithm has been out a while at least.
The iBand+ will use such an algorithm I guess too, although I do not know what EEG front end is used in the prototype?

I saw this on 9gag today. I couldn't really find anything about any people actually receiving anything. So I assume they never ended up shipping? (can't find any dates on when they were supposed to be shipped)