Thread: I have now officially reached the First Gate of The Dreaming, as described in, "The Art of Dreaming"

Lol, was about to say that sounds like a good game but, it would be even better in a dream obv

Originally Posted by Nhuc

Irregardless...

Technically you mean regardless...
DreamBliss

Originally Posted by dodge12

Hi you have a high text content which SHOULD mean you know what your talking about. I’m just trying to figure out my problem. When I was a kid (10-16) I had controllable dreams. I told my family but was told I was just dreaming. My issue now is they have started again. I’m 100% aware in my dreams but this time , most times, (this is kinda different) when I tell people things, they can’t hear me eg. Last night I dreamt that my dad was in bed telling mum he needed someone to help him rivet the boat. This morning he came to my door asking (in my dream, without help he would have moved the boat and had an accident).What are lucid dreams? I seem to dream most nights now which is strange for me as I never normally dream (last 3mths) FYI: The dreams I have now (most I can control) are never good dreams but thankfully today went without a hitch (maybe because I was off work?). My problem is I only ever have (what kids would call) bad dreams and they are more like action/horror films. I’m not sure if I’m asking for help or guidance?

I see you are fairly new here... Understand that, as in most other forums, simple courtesy says that you start a new post when you have a question. So start a new post. I or someone else, probably more qualified or experienced, will help you. Be patient. For now I will answer this post, and open up my PM box to you if you want to talk more.

Everyone dreams, this is a universal truth, documented by scientific research. Unless you are writing your dreams down or thinking about them immediately on waking they quickly fade, or you never realize you were dreaming at all. There is a mechanism in your brain that does that, a sort of protective circuit for your conscious mind. You conscious mind is trying to protect you from the ramblings of your unconscious mind. Folks here at these forums generally want to not only listen ti those ramblings, but interact with and use this rarely accessed part of their brain. Someone correct me if I got any of this wrong. This is how I understand it from what I have read so far.

You say that when you were a child you could control your dreams. From what I have read this is normal, typical even for children. They can even astral project and do so fearlessly. Then they hit their teens and forget all about it. My guess is that many of the people in this forum are here because of some long-forgotten memory, feeling or instinct that there was something they experienced as a child. Nothing to worry about here. I hereby official certify you as normal It's also perfectly normal parent-speak to say, in essence, "It's only a dream." Parents have forgotten, in most if not all cases, their childhood. Thankfully this is changing. I know when I have children I will raise them like Robert Moss says he raises his. The whole family gathers together and talks about their dreams every morning. Dreams are never, "just dreams" in an active dreaming family!

Now you say your dreams are controllable. What do you mean? Is it that you are aware of the dream, but are still, "on rails" in a sense, unable to control anything? If this is the case I think what users here recommend is looking at your hand. Castenada says look at 4 objects, always returning to the first one. Others say spin yourself around really fast. You have to do something to "take the reigns" so to speak. You may be lucid (aware you are dreaming) but that doesn't mean you are in control.

Lucid dreams, to answer your questions, are dreams in which you "wake up." They are dreams in which you realize you are dreaming. In my case this used to be followed by an extreme increase in detail and quality. To become lucid, as I said, look at your hands, or, if you prefer, look for objects that are common in your dreams (your old house, an old friend, a toy of some sort, etc.) Mark McEllroy goes over this in, "Lucid Dreaming For Beginners." There are many tutorials and resources here as well. You will have to start recording your dreams, the instant you wake up, using a Dream Journal or a voice recorder! This will help you see common themes and various things common to your dreams (Dream Signs.) Easiest way though seems to be to look for your hands. Put a note on your clock, another in some other place like a mirror or something that says, "Am I Dreaming?" Then look at your hands every time you see the note as you go about your day. You will soon do the same in your dreams, and once you see your hands you can then focus on 4 objects, coming back to the first, to stabilize and enter, "The Dreaming."

If I were having bad dreams, AKA nightmares, AKA Freddy Krueger or that creepy doll from Saw were following me around, or I turned a corner and came face to snout with a heavily drooling, overly large wolf, well I would stand my ground and ask it what it wants, what it represents. This also applies to anything you encounter in a dream, even a house or creepy room. Everything is sentient, or at least able to communicate, within a dream (the walls really do speak...)

These bad dreams you are having is simply your subconscious slapping you upside the head and saying, in essence, "Dude you have really got to deal with this problem!" Something in your present life or past, remembered or blocked, is causing these nightmares. In some rare cases you could be dealing with supernatural contact such as a poltergeist (supposedly attach to teens), a ghost of someone who has not moved on (person-hauntings) or an encounter with an elemental or other sentient being from the astral plane. Elementals also come to children's and teens, they have limited intelligence but are very powerful and excellent allies, so I have read. Other encounters from the astral plane could be anything from demons to faeries to aliens. More than likely however you are simply stressed out about the girl you want to ask out who has the hugely muscular boyfriend, or an up and coming test from the teacher who you are convinced hates you, if you are a teen as a suspect by your writing. Any stresses in your day don't simply go away. They sink down, deep down inside, and you subconscious is the guard at the gate protecting you.

So, if it were my dream, I would face the monster, whatever form it takes, and ask it what it is and what it wants. Also if it were my dream, the fact that people close to me couldn't hear me would be a big clue. On waking I would right down as many details as I could remember, as well as the first three things I feel. Then I would translate the dream to find its meaning. I have a form: Dream Interpretation.doc you can use for this purpose (yes I know, more paperwork...)

I hope I helped -
- DreamBliss

Originally Posted by Nhuc

If you want to talk about gates, read up on the 50 gates of the quaballa...

You mean Kaballah - right? The scriptures of Jewish Mysticism (one of my near-future areas of study.)
- DreamBliss

its quabala and yes, yes i do =p.

Bumping this old thread for a reason...

OK so while I am still not %100 on this, it seems to me that these vines are a manifestation of earth energy. In my recent times with Ayhunna, who has returned, I have, somehow, used vines coming out of the earth for the purpose of sending energy, whether it be transformative or energizing. Still not totally sure it's me working with the vines or Ayhunna. But I'm leaning towards that its me. Some sort of progession? You get to a certain state and you can perceive earth energy in this way, and work with it in this way?

So looking back on this dream, perhaps the vines were not attacking after all. Perhaps they wanted to energize me. With that thought in mind, just the other day, I entered that dreamscape again and this time allowed the vines to come and surround me. They did something to my energy body, made it brighter, ever since I now have two lights at my center. Not totally sure they are related. But I have the usual yellowish/orange/white center light, my unique energy signature, and now I have this brighter, slightly bigger, yellow/white light that looks like a miniture sun to my mind's eye.

Still figuring all this out, probably has its roots in shamanism since I am working with the earth and a spirit animal. But important enough to resurrect this. If you encounter vines coming towards you, could also appear as roots, go ahead and let them surround you. Don't give in to fear, as I did. But understand that if they surround you it is to work with you energetically in some way. It will affect you energetically. So proceed with caution! Use your gut instincts, if you can feel it outside the screaming voice of fear. Go with what feels right, but don't trust your feelings all the way either. Be clear-headed when you make your decision.

Ideally before letting earth energy transform you or energize you it would probably be a good idea to study up on Shamanism, find a good forum covering the practice, ask questions, get answers, know what you're getting into. I just jump and hope there's water down there. Sooner or later this approach will reach out and bite me in the arse. You must do whatever feels right and works best for you.

So vines = manifestation of earth energy.
- DreamBliss

Hi there, I'm a long time lucid dreamer and I just wanted to share my thoughts on your problem.

So first of all, the problem as I understand it is that when you achieve this higher level of lucidity and become more in touch with the dream, you are presented with a threat, almost the guardian of the gate so to speak. It comes in the form of a vine and if you're too close it will attack you or just interact with you.

I also see that you've actually concluded it's purpose. This is where I have to not disagree with you, but I do strongly caution you about using deterministic reasoning. Why I do this is because what inhabits our dreams is a manifestation of something within our mind. Hence if we relate vines to a religious context and believe that they will act a certain way, or do something certain then we are creating a self for filling prophecy. In other words, you're creating this story at the same time you explore it and I think you haven't come to terms with that yet.

I can tell you that there are places and there are beings out there which we can reach in our dreams and they are not of the mind. However I'm very skeptical of your vines. To me it seems that you're making them out to be more than what they are and inadvertently making them more than what they were. Now from what do I credit this evidence you ask? Well I speak mainly from experience because when I was younger I would often have strange dreams and talk to my friend about them. Some were nonsensical and I ignored them, for that reason they never came back. However it was the dreams that I said "This means something man..." about which always came back. As a result I realized that the more I wanted to see, the more that would follow.

It sounds very consistent with this. Had you ignored that vine as an enigma and not thought of it again, I would argue that you would not still be talking about it and that it would not have ever reoccurred in your dreams. This is an aspect of the spiritual which isn't taught but if you're ever going to elevate to the level that you want, you have to be true to yourself. Even though you wish there was more to something, every now and then we have to admit to ourselves that there's not. Otherwise we are perpetuating a lie, and all we will ever receive back is lies. I can tell you now that the more true to yourself you are, and the more skeptical you are, the greater your understanding of dreams will become.

Now I'm not mad about your religious beliefs, I'm an atheist and I have suffered exactly the same problems so it doesn't matter. I'm just saying self deception is that easiest thing for a human to do and as anyone with a psychology background will tell you, we do it all the time. I'm not saying you've deceived yourself either, I'm simply saying you may have and that should be something you look into. Dreams are about the philosophical mind, the type of mind that looks both ways crossing a one way street.

Hey I appreciate your feedback!

For the record the vines never recurred, and I've rarely lucid dreamed since.

I just connected the dots when the vines showed up on their own during my time, a sort of meditative state, with Ayhunna. They came up from the ground and were, to me, a manifestation of earth energy. A way for me to see it I guess. Feels right so I'm going with it.

BTW I have moved on from Castenada's teachings as there is suspicion about them.

I'll try to go over what you said later -
- DreamBliss