Ahhh, REM rebound! Interesting concept. The last time I'd slept prior to the experience contained above was only about... Checked my alarms, an hour and 45 minutes. Hm... Yes, I'm not so sure dreaming can only occur after 90 minutes of sleep; I've seen other people fall asleep and wake up soon afterwards(20 minutes?) remembering an odd dream, or even talking in their sleep in response to a dream very shortly after retiring. AH http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=67910 It states somewhere in this thread that one not need be in the REM stage to dream, that dreaming is quite possible in other stages of sleep.

And YES, the entries on hypnagogic hallucinations were VERY useful to me:

I've had a history of insomnia, consequentially I've had a lot of experience laying around *trying* to fall asleep. The swirly/starry state happens easily because of how tired I am, and I spent some time years back being confounded as to how to get further than that and actually sleep. When I successfully slept I noticed the 'brainvomit/footprint' stage (random fragmented concepts flashing and blinking and words and talking that make little sense yet seem 'familiar' and 'correct') would happen prior to my lights going out- and associated that with the ultimate goal of sleeping, period, so I focused on trying to induce that state purposely because I knew it would give way to sleep. (The starry/swirly part is closer to waking for me, not as deep.) So what I'd do is this: Once I'd achieved the swirly/starry part I'd purposely try to think in a nonlinear conceptual way that made no sense. I discovered that if I *purposely* brainvomit after entering the hypnagogic 'plasma' state, I mean purposely think in GIBBERISH, somehow it sparks involuntary continuation of it. It worked one time and I started doing it whenever possible until it just became a habit if I was having trouble sleeping- thinking in gibberish on purpose leads to thinking in gibberish involuntarily, giving way to flashes of random bizarre stuff. The involuntary fragmented brainslurry goes on for a while, and once I got that ball rolling my modus operandi was to relinquish awareness and revel in sleep.

So basically, 'last night' instead of just happily agreeing to sleep I put effort into staying aware to see what happens beyond that point, and from what I've read here, what I was experiencing makes perfect sense, the personal progression being this: stars/swirls, voluntary conceptual/fragmented thinking, gives way to footprints(this part lasts a bit and I usually feel my eyes roll back involuntarily), stars and footprints give way to darkness/nothingness(this is where I would usually relinquish awareness), hypnagogic objects, objects give way to partial scenes, partial scenes become full scenes, DREAM. So I've actually been unraveling the first couple steps to this routinely for years, I just didn't realize it had anything to do with LDs, had no idea of the terminology for it either. ('That thing I do when I'm trying to fall asleep but can't.')

OMG. I KNOW WHAT WOKE ME UP when I tried to force the dream to stop! It's the same thing that always wakes me up from the footprint hypnagogic state! Sometimes I would sabotage the progress of falling asleep because when I felt my eyes roll back of their own accord, I would become VERY aware of it because it meant I was succeeding in falling asleep, and being aware of my eyes rolling would cause me to move them intentional, which would screw them up from their natural progression of being uncontrolled and I would be HURLED back out of the footprint stage into wakefulness and have to start over again. I always feel my eyes move a bit as I get deeper toward sleep with the footprint stage, and when attempting to remain aware beyond that to LD, I felt my eyes start to wig out once more, *every time* the dreams were coalescing; (the 'spinning' sensation) when the dream I wasn't happy with was beginning to form, my eyes were moving around, and I started trying to exert force to keep that dream from manifesting because I wanted a different one- in doing so I STOPPED MY EYES from moving, exerting control over my eyeballs from within the dream, which shoved me out of it into being awake again!

I've read most of the tutorial section now and the link you sent me, the advice is indispensable. What I need to do is: when the dream is forming, let it, because my eyes are moving around a lot right then, and if I try to sto pthe dream from being born, I'll end up messing with my eyes which will eject me from sleep. Let the dream form, *then* employ the methods described to remain lucid within it, and *then* try to change/manipulate it. And the problem of excitement will solve itself over time. Good!! THANK YOU for all of your help. (If I succeed, do I just update by adding another reply to my own thread, or do I need to make a seperate thread?) Apologies for this post being so very long, I'm very very tired and which leads to being verbose and rambly. TO BED! I am going to go to sleep now and try again! <333