Thread: How to obtain world peace?

Put me in control

Originally Posted by IndieAnthias

I disagree. I think peace isn't peace if it requires a compromise of rich cultural and linguistic variation.

Rich cultural and linguistic variations are what perpetuates mankind's intolerance towards instincts. The same cultural conditioning that invented religion, social status and a false sense of entitlement to compensate for its breakdown in communication; e.g those linguistic variations you're so fond of.

standard shouldn't be that we not fight because we are no longer different. The standard should be to not fight EVEN THOUGH we are different.

But we're not different, we are anything but. This is why life as we know it is the way it is: too many individuals with no real understanding of what unity means.

you can't bring about a single language or culture in a peaceful way... let alone a single race.

Sure you can: Teach your children, they in turn will teach theirs. Natural selection will take care the rest; e.g those who will use any means to defend the current system of checks and balances. They will kill themselves off, you see?

edit: This may be contentious, but I prefer diversity with conflict to peace by homogenity.

And this is why your blood line won't survive. The answer is very simple, but most people are blinded by the aesthetic value of life, so much in fact they are literally willing to die for a cosmetic venture.

Originally Posted by greenhavoc

And this is why your blood line won't survive.

I'd rather die fighting cultural homogeneity (which I happily would do) than live in it. You're free to make an opinionated prediction that 'resistance is futile' but I don't think its supported enough to be reliable. Heterogeneity and peace are not mutually exclusive.

Originally Posted by greenhavoc

Rich cultural and linguistic variations are what perpetuates mankind's intolerance towards instincts. The same cultural conditioning that invented religion, social status and a false sense of entitlement to compensate for its breakdown in communication; e.g those linguistic variations you're so fond of.

There's fundamentally different things going on in different cultures. You can't blanket-condemn culture itself (which you are, whether you realize it or not. Culture in its fundamental form is variation.) Some cultures are fucked, some are just fine. Trust me human culture survived for possibly as long as 60,000 years with no problems. This involved plenty of hetero religious and linguistic interface. Social status evolved way before humans did.

Originally Posted by greenhavoc

But we're not different, we are anything but. This is why life as we know it is the way it is: too many individuals with no real understanding of what unity means.

We obviously are different, culture by culture. That's like saying there's essentially no difference between male and female. It's only true (and useful) on certain levels of observation, not useful or true at all in many important contexts.

Originally Posted by greenhavoc

Sure you can: Teach your children, they in turn will teach theirs. Natural selection will take care the rest; e.g those who will use any means to defend the current system of checks and balances. They will kill themselves off, you see?

Teach your children to appreciate variation. And no, I don't see... could you explain that differently perhaps?

Originally Posted by greenhavoc

And this is why your blood line won't survive. The answer is very simple, but most people are blinded by the aesthetic value of life, so much in fact they are literally willing to die for a cosmetic venture.

you greatly and sadly misunderstand aesthetics.

Originally Posted by IndieAnthias

you greatly and sadly misunderstand aesthetics.

I don't have a long rebuttal for you, because what I've already said is not only easy to understand, it's extremely accurate to the point of inevitable. Sorry, but it is what it is regardless of both your and my prejudices.

I'd rather die fighting cultural homogeneity (which I happily would do) than live in it. You're free to make an opinionated prediction that 'resistance is futile' but I don't think its supported enough to be reliable. Heterogeneity and peace are not mutually exclusive.

Originally Posted by green

The answer is very simple, but most people are blinded by the aesthetic value of life, so much in fact they are literally willing to die for a cosmetic venture.

Inevitable or not, its something to fight against. If one were to be spontaneously teleported to the middle of the Pacific ocean, it would matter how far one swam towards land before drowning. This I believe.

Maybe you'll indulge me in a reading suggestion: Anything by Daniel Quinn, particularly his main trilogy consisting of Ishmael, My Ishmael, and The Story of B. I know it's a rather nebulous, ineffectual move in a debate to just throw out book titles, so take it or leave it. You may find it interesting.

Or, for something short maybe just read chapter 1 in a book called Rodmap to Sustainability: Interpreting Daniel Quinn, written by Doug Brown. This talks about diversity as a key component to life, without which life is not possible. It addresses both biodiversity and cultural diversity (since the arguments for one don't necessarily apply to the other). If you're interested, it's easy to find a copy if you... um, ask me how.

I dont think thats really a good justification for the Genocide of all people of earth, (not the modern meaningof genocide which is mass murder but the original meaning, destruction of a people). To acheive this one raced world, you're going to have to find a way of getting rid of all those who want to maintain their race, which is several billion people, plus their decendants. Whats going to happen when me and my decendants disagree with your plan? Either kill them (making the idea of doing this for peace redundant) or the one race goal will have failed.

Let us assume that one day 99.99% of the world have no identity, are of no race. Those remaining 0.01% will be the most united group of people on the planet. And will be by far the most powerful, as noone else will have a sense of identity or belonging, no man is an island, apart from the 99.99% who will suffer for it.

Do you actually believe this will realistically happen, and if so why?

Originally Posted by Thatperson

Let us assume that one day 99.99% of the world have no identity, are of no race. Those remaining 0.01% will be the most united group of people on the planet. And will be by far the most powerful, as noone else will have a sense of identity or belonging, no man is an island, apart from the 99.99% who will suffer for it.

In all probability, they will be the only peoples that still inhabit this planet: the .01%. How powerful they are is irrelevant, as the evolution of their acceptance peaked with ego e.g in isms we trust.

Do you actually believe this will realistically happen, and if so why?

I do believe it will happen, but I do not have a rational explanation as to why I believe it so. I could go astronaut on your ass, but whatever small creditability I had would simply vanish.

All Im saying is that for as long as there are people opposed to the one race notion (and there are currently billions, and those in favour of it have some of the lowest birthrates in the world) It will be unachieveable, peacefully anyway.

When every individual obtains self-peace?

I think everyone would have to realize the interconnectedness of all life. We all depend on one another to live. We are all part of a greater system of life. We believe ourselves separate and act as if no one else matters. We cannot see each others suffering. We horde selfishly. We are self destructive and destructive to those around us. We are tools of destruction more than tools of creation. We are taught to be monsters. All we are has been taught to us in some way. We are taught that life is a competition. Survival of the fittest. We only care for ourselves. We cannot work together for the greater good of all. We have tryed before, but it is always corrupted by selfishness.
We cannot continue this way. If we do we will all die. We need to wake up. All of us. Then there can be world peace. Right now our world is corrupted by evil. We are all zombie slaves to a system that imprisons us. Everyone is suffering. Everyone is afraid. So many have given up hope. We need each other. We need to be for others what we want them to be for us. WE are all one. One being that hurts and is sick with a disease. Only together can we overcome it.

Originally Posted by Thatperson

All Im saying is that for as long as there are people opposed to the one race notion (and there are currently billions, and those in favour of it have some of the lowest birthrates in the world) It will be unachieveable, peacefully anyway.

These peoples will no longer exist, though. This future isn't just a fantacy in my mind, it's æons of collective will; it's the apex of self awareness. You've only to search your mind for a few moments to realize it's the only logical conclusion our species can come to if it wants to evolve.

I understand why the majority of individuals want to keep the identity sacred, but that seems such a waste of potential to me. I think one race, one language and one goal isn't confined to an abstract conscious at all, but it's a legitimate, if not the only legitimate course of action left for mankind if he wants to carry on.

Actually, that view of one language-one culture of yours is entirely out of touch with nature

Nature needs diversity or else the ecosystem collapses. Mankind being natural, is no different. Diversity is awesome and it is not a threat to peace.

Originally Posted by greenhavoc

These peoples will no longer exist, though. This future isn't just a fantacy in my mind, it's æons of collective will; it's the apex of self awareness. You've only to search your mind for a few moments to realize it's the only logical conclusion our species can come to if it wants to evolve.

I understand why the majority of individuals want to keep the identity sacred, but that seems such a waste of potential to me. I think one race, one language and one goal isn't confined to an abstract conscious at all, but it's a legitimate, if not the only legitimate course of action left for mankind if he wants to carry on.

There seems to be no logical reason at all to assume that these peoples will no longer exist.

You seem to be ignoring the billions of people, and tens of billions of unborn people who are/will be opposed to this, and that will reproduce, ensuring the survival of their people.

Originally Posted by juroara

Actually, that view of one language-one culture of yours is entirely out of touch with nature

Nature needs diversity or else the ecosystem collapses. Mankind being natural, is no different. Diversity is awesome and it is not a threat to peace.

Because diversity as we know it has done a bang up job so far, right?

If you would consider just for a moment that we might not be the only intelligent species in the universe, then you would understand why that awesome diversity you mentioned isn't very practical if we're to ever move on from this planet, which we will.

* Abstract: Ecosystem is to earth as _____ is to universe?

You seem to be ignoring the billions of people, and tens of billions of unborn people who are/will be opposed to this, and that will reproduce, ensuring the survival of their people.

I'm not ignoring them because they won't exist. They aren't there, period.
They died off because they refused to get with the program, both literally and figuratively.

Originally Posted by greenhavoc

Because diversity as we know it has done a bang up job so far, right?

I'm still not seeing the relationship between diversity and lack of peace. I see a relationship between ignorance and lack of peace. And ignorance tends to lend on the side that everything needs to be "like me" or else. This becomes the foundation of genocide, all in the name of creating a utopia.

This is also why people don't like the concept of utopia. How do you create a utopia without crushing individuality?

Both "utopia" and peace need to uphold the harmony of diversity - not the other way around

If you would consider just for a moment that we might not be the only intelligent species in the universe, then you would understand why that awesome diversity you mentioned isn't very practical if we're to ever move on from this planet, which we will.

Thinking about the greatness of this universe is the foundation of my body of art. And I find the endless possible forms of life extremely fascinating.

End forced taxation.

Originally Posted by juroara

..tends to lend on the side that everything needs to be "like me" or else. This becomes the foundation of genocide, all in the name of creating a utopia.

Change "like me" into "like us". If the collective mind worked in harmony, it wouldn't act out against those who wanted to separate. They would go do whatever it is they do, and us would continue to build. It's not genocide, because we aren't killing anyone off, they've had done it to themselves.

This is also why people don't like the concept of utopia. How do you create a utopia without crushing individuality?

In the one world view the individuality isn't sacrificed, it's given up willingly. Even then it's not completely gone, as no progress has ever been made without independent thought. So you mustn't see this view as: Rawrrrr!! We've come for the entirety of your being, try to see it more like:Do you want what we want, if so then please join/help us expand on our mutual understanding...so to speak.

Both "utopia" and peace need to uphold the harmony of diversity - not the other way around.

Harmony of diversity doesn't have to include aesthetics, ya know?

Thinking about the greatness of this universe is the foundation of my body of art. And I find the endless possible forms of life extremely fascinating.

Then get your head out of earth's ass, wipe its poop from your eyes and move the f_ck on already.

I'm not ignoring them because they won't exist. They aren't there, period.
They died off because they refused to get with the program, both literally and figuratively.

Why do you assume the people opposed to your idea will 'die off' when we outnumber you by billions, and have a much higher birthrate than those with your philosophy, if anything those with that idea will no longer exist.

Originally Posted by Thatperson

Why do you assume the people opposed to your idea will 'die off' when we outnumber you by billions, and have a much higher birthrate than those with your philosophy, if anything those with that idea will no longer exist.

You outnumber us right now, you won't then. As more people become truly aware of their environment; become aware of what their purpose is, they will understand then accept the fact that their is a need out there greater than that of an individual's want.

We know these thing are certain:

• The existence of the divine can neither be, nor will ever be proven/dis proven.
• Evolution is the tool through which nature creates.

And since these 2 truths are the only legitimate argument for our existence at all, they will never disappear. However, if we can eliminate the redundant nature of our very existence e.g culture[s], then we will be that much closer to our *goal. We are one tribe, well we used to be. Once we leave this planet, we should probably leave our baggage behind, right? You gotta look at the endgame on this one.

*That goal is, of course exploration. It's always been our goal, it's why we came out of the sea, and then went up into the trees. Now that we've come back down and started to roam the land, do you honestly think once we're finishing exploring it we're going want to jump back into the water?

All I'm trying to say is we can't get up there thinking the way we do down here.

I'm sorry greenhavoc, I usually can follow most arguments for what they're worth.. but you're a rare case in which I think you're utterly and completely wrong. You keep making statements with no support, claiming them to be self-evident when they're not. There is no over-arching goal to our or anything else's evolution. There is no intent, no progress, no destiny, no apex. These are all classic misconceptions of evolution.

Originally Posted by IndieAnthias

I'm sorry greenhavoc, I usually can follow most arguments for what they're worth.. but you're a rare case in which I think you're utterly and completely wrong. You keep making statements with no support, claiming them to be self-evident when they're not. There is no over-arching goal to our or anything else's evolution. There is no intent, no progress, no destiny, no apex. These are all classic misconceptions of evolution.

I do believe it will happen, but I do not have a rational explanation as to why I believe it so.

I'm not asking you to follow it, though. You either understand it, or your don't.
Since you clearly don't understand what I've been saying, then clearly you've no reason to respond to it anymore. Pretty simple.

There is no over-arching goal to our or anything else's evolution.

Misconception of evolution indeed.

Its not that I don't understand, its that I don't agree. If I didn't understand, then I clearly would have a reason to keep responding. I see that you are putting forth a description (rather than advocating), so we should be able to talk about this with relatively level heads. I just don't think you are making much of a case, beyond saying your prediction is 'just so'. You have said that you can't elaborate on why you think your vision is 'just so' because it's self-evident. But I have my own view of humanity's 'destiny', that has undergone some x amount of scrutiny, and I'm seeing something entirely different. What have you seen that led you to this position?

"Misconception of evolution indeed"... so are you disputing what I said about evolution?

You're right, I've got nothing else to add.
Later, you.