Thread: Gays

uhhh...I'm starting to have different thoughts on the subject. I just don't know yet. as for now, completely on the fence.

Originally posted by Paperdoll EP
I'm sorry...I shouldn't have said anything. I'm still a little close-minded...sometimes...but I used to be worse. I hope I didn't offend anyone. just know that I'm not a gay basher or anything. I don't hate gays...

paper you're far from it. -- i frequent a classic broncos forum a lot. it's full for right wing conservatives... we just had a thread on gay marriage, i'll show you what some of these douche bags wrote.

Ya bunch a politically correct poofeter lovers! [/b]

Don't flaunt your fagget ass in front of my kids[/b]

ok does a dick fit in your ass? no?[/b]

I guess if I had to tell my child, I'd just say they are spreading AIDS and hope that was enough to keep them from trying it[/b]

i'm of the minority on this site.

more recently...

Originally posted by Blue71
Az [me],

Looks like the world is going to hell and the gay thing just makes the ride a little faster. You need to get off the bus. If this country doesn't put its foot down soon, we are done. Seems like in todays society, if someone wines and cries enough about something, they get it. \"Do you want some cheese with that wine?\" I'm sick of it. Everything is so easily accepted these days and that is why this place is as screwed up as it is. Violance, nudity, gays! And people can't seem to figure it out..... Duh! If we let gays get married then we may as well not have any damn laws, because they never stand up for long. They always get twisted somehow now don't they? I do believe in God and agree with what the Bible says and it all makes good since the way it is, and not contorted. Marriage is for a Man and a Woman. If gays wanna be gay then don't push it on me. I feel like I am being violated now. Stop pushing the gay thing on me please.

Blue71 [/b]

my reply:

get some backbone to your argument, other than, \"the bible says it's wrong.\" that's bullshit, don't expect the world to abide by the bible, or your opinions for that matter. i'm searching for one shred of evidence in your entire post that proves gay marriages will lead to the downfall of civilization as we know it. -- also last time i checked no one is pushing the gay thing on you. you just seem to think so, but that sounds like a personal problem to me. [/b]

then...

Az,

Figured you'd say that. Take what look at what this country was founded on. Your just blind! If you'd step back and look, most of society is saying that gay marriage is wrong too, not just the Bible. Can't you see that?????. I am usually a pretty open minded person about things, but I have to draw the line somewhere. So if you wanna cross the line , then that is your right, but don't count on all of the straight people to jump onto that side of the line with you. Issues like gay marriage, violence on TV, nudity on TV, etc..have caused society to turn dirty. All of this in American life has started to become main stream now and is not wholesome like it once was, and you are just supporting it. Again which is your right, but I'm gonna try to continue make this a better place and not a confusing , terrible, angry, gay place for my, as well as the next generations to grow up . And as for it being pushed on me...It is! And i'm sick and tired of seeing homosexual men look at you funny, blow kisses and things like that. I see bumper stickers that say \"Be Gay and Join Us\" and \" Be Gay Today\". If that is not pushing it on me then what is? OPEN YOUR EYES AND SEE WHERE ALL OF THIS IS TAKING US!!

Blue71[/b]

and now me again...

it's like talking to a wall. NO ONE IS IMPOSING ANYTHING ON YOU! wake up. if you think a bumper sticker is imposing its ideals on you then you have one weak psyche and you deserve to wallow in it. the only problem is your own insecurity... get over it or move out of the way because this is happening and it's not going to hurt anyone but the ignorant. [/b]

sometimes i hate bronco owners...

update in the on-going saga that is dumbasses bashing gays...

Az

Blind, Blind. Please explain to me how bumper stickers that are telling me to\"Be Gay and Join Us\" and \"Be Gay Today\" aren't pointing the finger at me? Also, how is a homo winking and blowing kisses to someone that obviosly has a girlfriend, not offensive. It's all I can do not to ring thier neck. But thats another story. Most of the gay community that I see try to impose there sexuality on us straights. They do things such as this to get a rise out of us. Gay people have the same rights as we do. They just want more with the marriage thing. It's never enough. You are young and seem to be on the band wagon like a lot of people. You are not helping society to striveto be a better place. You are one of thosethat thinks\" If it feels good, then do it\" No matter who it hurts, concerns, or offends and I take it personal. I lovethis great country and would like to make it a better place for family's and kids to grow up. But this gay marriagre thing just adds to the bad things that have come and will come in the future. You say\"Get over it or move out of the way because this is happening and it's not going to hurt anyone but the ignorant.\" I see that you have a lot to learn. That is the weakest statement I have ever heard. I'd hate to be on your side in battle. Your not making anyone proud. Besides it seems like you are calling an awful lot of us \"ignorant\"

Blue71[/b]

and my reply.

Please explain to me how bumper stickers that are telling me to\"Be Gay and Join Us\" and \"Be Gay Today\" aren't pointing the finger at me?

the same way a \"BUSH cheney\" bumper sticker isn't forcing you to be republican... %)

Gay people have the same rights as we do. They just want more with the marriage thing.

that makes so much sense it's frightening.

You are young and seem to be on the band wagon like a lot of people.

yes this crazy band wagon called equal rights.

No matter who it hurts, concerns, or offends and I take it personal.

maybe, now i'm going out on a limb here... what you do hurts, offends, and \"concerns\" (???) gays. but i guess it doesn't matter they aren't people so you cant hurt or offend them. %) pssst, i was being sarcastic if you didn't pick that up.[/b]

...and i really wanted to stay out of this one too *sigh*...

being gay is both something you are born with and something you 'choose' (for lack of a better word, upbringing is more like it tho)..they have done tests on gay peoples brains to see if there was something different, and they found that there are certain chemicals that are in lower amount than normal, but they have also found those same low chemical counts in some straight people as well...this inborn defect in the brain is what allows a gay person to eventually become attracted to someone of the same sex, whereas having more of it makes you like Seeker...but like i said, they have found both gays and straights with this lowered amount, so they (scientists) assumed it must be both the chemical imbalance, and upbringing...but heres where the controversy is, many gays say that it isnt a choice, that they couldnt choose to not be gay, but i want you to think, can a straight person choose not to fall in love with someone? people have already said in this thread 'no' but i submit to you, that who you fall in love with is a choice...you might be unable to control who you're attracted to, but that deosnt mean you cant ignore those impulses for one reason or another and move on...i have done this more than once...just because you desire something or someone deosnt mean you should go after it all the time...the world has a twisted view of 'love > everything' and that love is healthy and you should always persue someone you love, but again, i think this is wrong... have you ever hated someone soo much that you thought, even for an instant, about killing them? did you kill them? exactly. but then you might say 'but that is altering somebody else's life and those lives of people around that person' but so is falling in love with someone...if i fall in love with someone, and manage to make them feel the same way about me, then eventually marry that person and we move off to europe cause i get a job there, deos that not effect that person, and everyone around that person? if you get into the mindset that love is a choice, and you can choose to ignore impulses, including ones of love or desire, then you can choose not to be gay, however this deosnt occur to most people, or requires too great of willpower...i, like many others, have the inborn defect that allows people to be gay, but im straight as an arrow...you say 'why would someone choose a lifestyle that they get made fun of for and gives them problems etc.?' as the problems imposed on them lighten as society slowly accepts gays more and more, more and more gays appear in society...this was true of Rome, as the civilization became more open, and slowly degredated into worthlessness, the gay population actually overcame the straight population...people choose lifestyles (although ones that are easier to change out of) that make life more difficult for them all the time...i see people covered in tatooes with a million piercings...you think that isnt something they get crap for? but they obviously chose that...there have been people that go against even the harshest consequences for what they believe, and as society slackens its harsh views towards gays, more people are subconciouslly willing to bear those consequences...

anyway, i hope none of this offended anyone, and i think i should also state that i have several gay friends, and think that being gay is about as 'bad' or 'evil' as fibbing (ie no big deal)...i have nothing against gays and i usually try to keep these opinions to myself...sry

WTF? Why is this beeing discussed?
Some people are gay. So what.
He/she feels more attracted to the same sex.
I dont care? They're not humping me, they're humping people thinking/feeling the same, and they're happy. Good for them, let them be happy. They're not bothering me, and I like to see people happy.
I dont have a fucking opinion about it. Its just normal. Some people like the color green, others favor blue.

If you do have an opinion about, it, you're a fucking cunt because negative as well as positive discrimination is stupid.

It happens. They're not beeing nasty on your lawn are they? Then shut the fuck up. If they are, sure get the hose out, we dont need to see that shit. I'd do that. But hey, I would even do that when it was just a pair of straight squirrels.

why gays like the same sex was being discussed. not whether it was right. -- i posted those quotes from the bronco forum to show paper that she wasn't being spiteful or offensive... and if by some stretch of the imagination someone was offended... there are people out there that are only about 99999999.99 times worse and hateful than anything she could even phantom.

*nod*

...aside, its something to dicuss which is better than nothing to discuss...if you dont like it you can always just avoid the topic

Discussing why people are beeing gay without beeing gay yourself is pretty much just as pointless... and all this 'scientific' data is just unsubstantial bullshit. Nobody knows exactly how love works.

Originally posted by CT
WTF? Why is this beeing discussed?
Some people are gay. So what.
He/she feels more attracted to the same sex.
I dont care? They're not humping me, they're humping people thinking/feeling the same, and they're happy. Good for them, let them be happy. They're not bothering me, and I like to see people happy.
I dont have a fucking opinion about it. Its just normal. Some people like the color green, others favor blue.

If you do have an opinion about, it, you're a fucking cunt because negative as well as positive discrimination is stupid.

It happens. They're not beeing nasty on your lawn are they? Then shut the fuck up. If they are, sure get the hose out, we dont need to see that shit. I'd do that. But hey, I would even do that when it was just a pair of straight squirrels.

Damn, son! :bravo: You said exactly what I was trying to say, only without all the tact I was trying to say it with. Sometimes blunt is better. Props to you, my friend! Well said.

Originally posted by CT
Discussing why people are beeing gay without beeing gay yourself is pretty much just as pointless... and all this 'scientific' data is just unsubstantial bullshit. Nobody knows exactly how love works.

wait, so we shouldn't have opinions about anything that we don't personally experience? wow. just wow. -- we're discussing this in a constructive manner, we aren't bashing on each other or the lifestyle. we're getting ideas heard. if you think it's stupid and pointless.... DON'T READ IT... otherwise, don't bring down the conversation for your personal amusement or whatever your motive is here.

Ya it is pretty sad when you can't discuss a topic without people getting so defensive. If everyone took the - I don't care approach in all questions, the world would be a pretty ugly place. And to say I don't #$^# care this & that is a cop out , why, because you cannot talk about a sensitive subject.
Some points to ponder - If we were all gay we wouldn't exist. For long that is. No other mammals are gay, Maybe some primates. Therefore something tells me its not correct. But it doesn't mean you cannot take in a gay for a friend, lover, neighbor or whatever. But the original Question was whether or not they were born that way.
If I was born blind, people would accept it because they have to. But in the manner of homosexuality people can't except the possibility that it is not right. But nobody would dispute whether or not you should befriend a blind person.

*uber sigh* C'mmon now..alright Im going to speak as a soul here..not as a gay..

When are people going to learn that when it comes to love it should not really matter what your race is, what your skin color is, if you are big or small, male or female, I mean for god sake from this planet or not..when you fall in love with somebody you fall in love with him/her because you love his/her personality, because you feel comfertable with the., because they are sweet to you, because you can have fun with them, because you are best friends aswell, because he/she is always there for you, because you can always rely on you, because there is a certain chemistry..etc etc etc. Apearence just comes second, and some people are atracted to males and others to females and others to both.

Its just that when you fall in love with somebody when you like him/her so much it happens, why would you not fall in love with the sweetest/greatest etc person in the cosmos? You should not even look at apearence, but we do a bit, of course we do, its a matter of preference, one likes this and one likes that, but we all have to learn thats what inside its that matters, not the outside, that includes looking male or female.

We are all souls, we are all energy, its the energy that experiences the chemistry, its your energy that makes love in the end, its your energy that almost becomes one, thats the concept of twin flames, energy drawn together like a magnet, desiring to almost become one, and gues what, energy has no gender.

And the human race is not going to die out because there wont be a point were everybody is gay because the eternal balance will take care of that.

Viewing gays as something incorrect, or a flaw is just a sign of a close mind. Calling a gay wrong is the same thing as calling a black person something, its stupid judging by apearence, racism,discrimination.

I kinda stay out of this topic, first I just wanted to know the opinion of Evangel, who I think is a very respectable christian(yes not all of them are,Im talking in general) who would dispite I disagree with some of his ideas, and a person that doesnt bash or gets in a stupid argument about something, he gave me his opinion and he said exactly the right thing. But now I see this topic turn into some spiced up argument again.

Quite frankly, gays are being bashed all over the place and it will probally never change, and really, I can live with that, there are close minded people, a whole bunch of them, but I just ignore them, I pity the fools with close minds, and I hate non friendly arguments.

So there, said my thing there

I can agree with a man loving another man or a woman loving another woman, what I cannot wrap my mind around or agree with (when I've tried, everything in me just says "it ain't right") is the aspect of sexual attraction in same-sex relationships... To say that love is all the same whether your gay, bi, straight, etc. is glazing over the issue of sexual/erotic attraction which is the basic point of why most people disagree with it being a "natural" thing to be gay. I believe that homosexuality is flat out wrong and is a willful decision rather than a biological inevitability (MOST of the time). From my own experience with friends who are gay, I've observed that they are usually seeking to fill an emotional void in these relationships rather than just seeking sex...

To say the world is going to literally die off should have been an obvious exaggeration.
It was meant to imply that the natural order of things shows it is not right. If you can tell me that you think natures intent was for a person to be gay then I'll leave it at that. I suffer from a mental disorder myself. Do I think It was natures malfunction? Your damn right I do. Do I think I deserve rights like anyone else? hell Ya. So to imply that being gay is not correct isn't to imply their bad or don't deserve love etc, etc. Close mined? Close minded is someone who takes the same controversial subjects time & time again and are afraid to come up with some real answers!!!!!!!!&#3 3;!

I think everybody is taking what Howetzer has to say out of context. Just like racism, people would rather get upset, when something is said that might not be "politcally correct" than discuss something with an open mind.

One post can mean a lot -welcome to the forum Illucid!!!!!!!!
I am going to go back to concentrating on Lucid dreaming.[color=#003333]

Yes, welcome to the forum

I think I'd better stay out this topic lol, my mind might be preoccupied, and my opinion does not make sense to other people because they dont have the same religious believes..so be it : P this matter is not ever going to be solved anyway, as it is with many others..but thats ok

Lucius, your religious beliefs are irrelivant to this discussion.

"Love your neighbor as yourself" is a phrase that comes to mind. Although this commandment is essentially Judeo/Christian, it is true for all religions and races.

Love is central to all. If someone hates another because of their race, appearance, education level, religion, or sexual orientation, then that person has issues they need to deal with.

I love all people, unconditionally. It's just who I am.

Now that's not to say that I don't hate the actions some people take and the words they say, but inside, they are a person too and need to be understood, helped, and loved!

Oh almost forgot, Welcome Illucid!!! You picked a dandy of a thread for your first post!

Originally posted by Seeker
Lucius, your religious beliefs are irrelivant to this discussion.

\"Love your neighbor as yourself\" is a phrase that comes to mind. *Although this commandment is essentially Judeo/Christian, it is true for all religions and races.

Love is central to all. *If someone hates another because of their race, appearance, education level, religion, or sexual orientation, then that person has issues they need to deal with.

I love all people, unconditionally. *It's just who I am. *

Now that's not to say that I don't hate the actions some people take and the words they say, but inside, they are a person too and need to be understood, helped, and loved!

Oh almost forgot, Welcome Illucid!!! * *You picked a dandy of a thread for your first post!

I feel pretty much the same way, yeah but I'm not sure I 'love' everyone, I (try to) respect everyone. I wish everyone the best, and everybody should do what makes them happy!

I dont understand that some people cant feel that way... they gotta meddle with other people's buisness, and force their views on whats right and whats wrong on everybody else.

Ironicly, I'd like to force that on everyone else.

Every nation that has embraced gay marrages thus far have fallen...

And as a christian I dont like the idea, However I dont dislike the individules themselves, Just the overall Idea of a man with a man and or a woman with a woman. Everyone has sexual thoughts about the same sex, Though it shouldent mean you act on them (dont get me wrong im not bashing gays here ^^;


just my 2 cents.

I ask again: who does it hurt if two men or two women make love? Who does it hurt if they marry? Certainly not any of you, so shut the fuck up about it.

Grr. I'm sorry for sounding like a bitch here. This is one of the very few topics that really gets my blood going. I firmly believe that, regardless of your religion, personal morals, or WHO you are (even if you're the shaved monkey running the U.S.), IT SHOULD NOT MATTER TO YOU either way! It doesn't affect you, it's not hurting anyone, and two people are all the happier for it. End of story. Why is this such a big fucking deal? People need to get over it and pay attention to their own shitty lives and not someone else's.

well i think where god fearing people get pissed is when you call it "marriage." they think that "marriage" is an religious institution that's reserved for men and women only. -- but then again there are also the ones who are just homophobes and they're too narrow minded to be otherwise... those are the ones i pity.

I ask again: who does it hurt if two men or two women make love? Who does it hurt if they marry? Certainly not any of you[/b]

It's not just the act/behavior itself - it's the idea of whether or not it is a right behavior. On the surface that might sound judgmental or that "it shouldn't matter," but we're talking about the bigger picture. When I have kids and teach them that it's wrong to be a homosexual, then they go to school and get indoctrinated into believing it's NOT wrong and that we should be TOLERANT of every lifestyle, philosophy, religion, perversion, etc... you can see where it begins to spill over into a larger arena. MANY people have a conflict with the public education system, and social leaders promoting homosexuality which tends to have very powerful influence on what people view as right or wrong. It's not just an individual issue -it's a SOCIAL issue!