Death The Next Stage Of Life

[Loaf]

Before you read this isn't really a religious debate although religion is mentioned briefly. I've always thought about death. I imagine everyone does. Of course its hard to understand what happens to us, because once you have experienced death theres no way to tell us what its like from the other side, if you even maintain a consciousness for that matter. But then I had an idea. A theory. Its a little crazy but philosophy is all about thinking outside the box. I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, or if there is a more refined theory like it out about on the net. But here it goes anyway. People often say that they see dead relatives. They see their grandfather, or someone they know at the end of their bed, or in their house, or in a dream even. You get what I am saying. Situations in which people see people they knew, or sometimes people they don't know but who have a significance - for instance, seeing a man who resembles a person who once lived in the house many many years a go. But surely wouldn't they have gone to a heaven or a hell (if thats what you believe). Its a little bogus to say they came back down to visit you. What if in fact life as we know it is only the first stage of a human being. Imagine if our physical bodies are only the beginning. Lets say that the soul does exist, or something like it. What if it developed and changed during the time we were on earth? If our life on earth was what made us who we are, and then when we grow old enough we drop our physical bodies and continue as something different? Another form that maybe is not visible to the naked eye, or at least not generally. I am not saying we become ghosties and scare children, nor go live in a cloud for the rest of eternity, but maybe "evolve" into something else that continues living. Of course I do not really believe this (or at least not enough to take it seriously, frankly I still think we just die and thats it) but its just an idea that popped into my head. I thought it might be interesting to discuss it and see where it leads.

[SkA_DaRk_Che]

As far as i know there is no survival of the self after one passes on, it would be a nice thought though. Even though it is not something i don't believe per se, i like the idea of reincarnation in a sense because it seems very similar to actual nature. In nature matter is in a cycle of sorts, being recycled almost endlessly. Reincarnation is similar if you think about it. So if any theory of life after death is true at all, I'm going to hedge my bets with reincarnation because it reminds me of actual nature. Also, in reincarnation you get to change form, become different people, animals, plants, trees etc. What if it developed and changed during the time we were on earth? If our life on earth was what made us who we are, and then when we grow old enough we drop our physical bodies and continue as something different? Another form that maybe is not visible to the naked eye, or at least not generally. We do continue as something different after death. Remember the first law of Thermodynamics? Well what do you think happens to all that gray matter in your head or the electricity coursing through your neural circuitry when you die? It changes forms, continues as something different.

[Abra]

I like this thread. Except matter is constantly being recycled from you, including the stuff in your mind. While alive, parts that were you are being reabsorbed. Even breathing right now, the oxygen that was apart of you is being exchanged. But our "soul" doesn't go with it, because we aren't the static sum of material that composes us; we are the living process. Specifically, we are whatever moment we are currently experiencing. And it will end. I think it will feel like Stage 4 sleep for a little while, and then

[youssarian]

Lulz nice ending on that one. I personally like the idea of how my body will decompose and then return to the Earth (or nature, depending on what your beliefs are insofar as Creation v. evolution). Worms'll eat me up and then parts of me will be in what they poop out, enriching the soil so that plants can grow and then animals can eat those plants and its the circle of life! and it moves us all!. (Couldn't resist Lion King intro).

[Loaf]

Lulz nice ending on that one. I personally like the idea of how my body will decompose and then return to the Earth (or nature, depending on what your beliefs are insofar as Creation v. evolution). Worms'll eat me up and then parts of me will be in what they poop out, enriching the soil so that plants can grow and then animals can eat those plants and its the circle of life! and it moves us all!. (Couldn't resist Lion King intro). lion king? yeah okay thats aa col view Sorry about that.

[SleepyCookieDough]

Well, it could be possible but, then... Things are normally very stable in our world. Everything stays where it is when we put it somewhere (even though some people have said the oposite, but that's normally because they forgot where it was or someone else moved it, etc...) so if there was an entire community of the invisible soul (or different being that's not visible to the human eye) that all the people who died evolved in, then.... Doesn't that mean that they have no influence in the world they are in. They can't move things and stuff? There just there, wandering in a landscape? I think that if we had to evolve in something else, it be better than what we are right now and I don't think that losing the capability to move stuff and to be seen is better...

[Loaf]

maybe who knows

[Scatterbrain]

I like this thread. Except matter is constantly being recycled from you, including the stuff in your mind. While alive, parts that were you are being reabsorbed. Even breathing right now, the oxygen that was apart of you is being exchanged. But our "soul" doesn't go with it, because we aren't the static sum of material that composes us; we are the living process. Specifically, we are whatever moment we are currently experiencing. And it will end. I think it will feel like Stage 4 sleep for a little while, and then I wouldn't say end. You're completely different, in both matter and structure, from who you were 15 years ago, yet you wouldn't say you died right? And even if you did, you wouldn't be able to pinpoint the moment when you died and the "new you" was born, because it's a gradual change. (much like the evolution of species) I'd argue that there's not an absolute end to the process that is one's life: along it's course various ramifications are born (not just offspring, everything that you create or affect counts too), those live on and just gradually die out.

[Maria92]

I'm gonna call that wishful thinking. Interesting thought, but I give it a veto. I don't see it happening. Like you, I think that, once we die, that's it, game over. Nothing more. Just nothingness...which is why it's nice that you won't be around for any of it. Kinda harsh to think about, but yeah...I don't see any sort of the afterlife happening. Personally, I would love to come back and scare the utter crap out of people. I think that would be a blast. Unfortunately, it probably isn't going to happen.

[Praise]

I believe consiousness continues on. That you go to whatever plain of existence you attract to yourself. I believe in reincarnation also and Angels Exist.

[Tyler]

Even though it is not something i don't believe per se, i like the idea of reincarnation in a sense because it seems very similar to actual nature. In nature matter is in a cycle of sorts, being recycled almost endlessly. Reincarnation is similar if you think about it. So if any theory of life after death is true at all, I'm going to hedge my bets with reincarnation because it reminds me of actual nature. I'd never thought about it like that, reincarnation is a cycle just like the cycles found in nature. Thanks for that thought. Doesn't that mean that they have no influence in the world they are in. They can't move things and stuff? There just there, wandering in a landscape? I think that if we had to evolve in something else, it be better than what we are right now and I don't think that losing the capability to move stuff and to be seen is better... Some people think that ghosts that we see sometimes are beings on another plane close to ours, that sometimes phase into ours for a moment. I personally don't think it's true, because a lot of the ghost sightings happen during certain dates and times. Almost like they are being regulated. However, it's not hard to believe that there is another plane that you could go to after death, with it's own "earth" and other people who have passed on that you can interact with. And maybe you could momentarily phase back into our own plane, because not all hauntings are so regulated. I'm gonna call that wishful thinking. Interesting thought, but I give it a veto. I don't see it happening. Like you, I think that, once we die, that's it, game over. Nothing more. Just nothingness...which is why it's nice that you won't be around for any of it. Kinda harsh to think about, but yeah...I don't see any sort of the afterlife happening. Personally, I would love to come back and scare the utter crap out of people. I think that would be a blast. Unfortunately, it probably isn't going to happen. You're right. It's pretty stupid to think that there is anything beyond this life. We don't have any proof that anything will happen after death, but I just can't make myself believe that this is it.

[Jesus of Suburbia]

Before you read this isn't really a religious debate although religion is mentioned briefly. I've always thought about death. I imagine everyone does. Of course its hard to understand what happens to us, because once you have experienced death theres no way to tell us what its like from the other side, if you even maintain a consciousness for that matter. But then I had an idea. A theory. Its a little crazy but philosophy is all about thinking outside the box. I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, or if there is a more refined theory like it out about on the net. But here it goes anyway. People often say that they see dead relatives. They see their grandfather, or someone they know at the end of their bed, or in their house, or in a dream even. You get what I am saying. Situations in which people see people they knew, or sometimes people they don't know but who have a significance - for instance, seeing a man who resembles a person who once lived in the house many many years a go. But surely wouldn't they have gone to a heaven or a hell (if thats what you believe). Its a little bogus to say they came back down to visit you. What if in fact life as we know it is only the first stage of a human being. Imagine if our physical bodies are only the beginning. Lets say that the soul does exist, or something like it. What if it developed and changed during the time we were on earth? If our life on earth was what made us who we are, and then when we grow old enough we drop our physical bodies and continue as something different? Another form that maybe is not visible to the naked eye, or at least not generally. I am not saying we become ghosties and scare children, nor go live in a cloud for the rest of eternity, but maybe "evolve" into something else that continues living. Of course I do not really believe this (or at least not enough to take it seriously, frankly I still think we just die and thats it) but its just an idea that popped into my head. I thought it might be interesting to discuss it and see where it leads. Evolving after a certain age?? Pokémon?? :lol That would have to be my theory (not Pokémon, Loaf's theory) too.

[Captain Sleepalot]

I enjoy the idea that this physical life is merely a gateway to another stage of life. I would have to say, however, that if that were the case I am not sure there is any reason to believe that being a human is the first stage in the experience of life. The human body is an extremely sophisticated organism, so it would seem to me that experiencing life as a human is one of many stages that began long before you were born into a human body. The "I" that experiences things cannot survive death, however, because it is dependent on the body (which is itself always changing even before death). Except for the most advanced meditators (and LDers!), the "I" of most people cannot even be consistently maintained every night during the process of sleep.

[Loaf]

I would have to say, however, that if that were the case I am not sure there is any reason to believe that being a human is the first stage in the experience of life. That would make sense.

[HeavySleeper]

Loaf, when I read your theory I couldn't help thinking of a butterfly. It kinda sounds like when a butterfly comes out of its cocoon. I guess that would mean that we are all caterpillars, death is a cocoon and in the afterlife we are butterflies. Does that mean I'll be able to fly?

[Loaf]

Thats an interesting way to put it. Fly? I dunno. I think its best to reserve that to LDs.

[Specialis Sapientia]

Loaf, when I read your theory I couldn't help thinking of a butterfly. It kinda sounds like when a butterfly comes out of its cocoon. I guess that would mean that we are all caterpillars, death is a cocoon and in the afterlife we are butterflies. Does that mean I'll be able to fly? All that butterfly stuff reminds me of this: "Once Zhuangzi dreamt he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he pleased. He didn't know he was Zhuangzi. Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakable Zhuangzi. But he didn't know if he was Zhuangzi who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was Zhuangzi."

[HeavySleeper]

"Once Zhuangzi dreamt he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he pleased. He didn't know he was Zhuangzi. Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakable Zhuangzi. But he didn't know if he was Zhuangzi who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was Zhuangzi." I guess Zhuangzi isn't a lucid dreamer, otherwise he would know which was the dream and which was real.

[lucid4sho]

i tend to think our existence is eternal, meaning we are not created or destroyed. whatever the answer is, its probably unfathomable by human minds.

[HeavySleeper]

i tend to think our existence is eternal, meaning we are not created or destroyed. whatever the answer is, its probably unfathomable by human minds. I thought to myself a while back about existing forever. And I came up with the theory that to exist forever I would probably have to keep systematically forgetting my past because my mind wouldn't be able to comprehend eternity. If you had been here forever and you could remember every moment of it..... OH GOD ITS SO CONFUSING!

[lucid4sho]

I thought to myself a while back about existing forever. And I came up with the theory that to exist forever I would probably have to keep systematically forgetting my past because my mind wouldn't be able to comprehend eternity. If you had been here forever and you could remember every moment of it..... OH GOD ITS SO CONFUSING! hehe ya eternity is pretty hard to think about, yet logic and science support that this is the case. Logically something cannot be created from nothing, meaning a finite and mortal universe cannot come from void alone, the big bang theory doesn't explain what created the energy responsible for the big bang. Einstein said energy is neither created or destroyed, implying that it is an eternal force.

[lucid4sho]

And I came up with the theory that to exist forever I would probably have to keep systematically forgetting my past because my mind wouldn't be able to comprehend eternity. That is what the brain does, forces a temporary illusion reality where you are one entity at one moment in 'time' with your own memories of one life, when really we are all things at all times with all memories for all eternity.

[HeavySleeper]

hehe ya eternity is pretty hard to think about, yet logic and science support that this is the case. Logically something cannot be created from nothing, meaning a finite and mortal universe cannot come from void alone, the big bang theory doesn't explain what created the energy responsible for the big bang. Einstein said energy is neither created or destroyed, implying that it is an eternal force. Yep, to me the only thing the big bang theory has ever explained is why the universe is expanding. If you ask someone who believes the big bang theory what caused the jump from nothing to everything they will tell you they don't know. It doesn't describe how anything came into existence, it just tells the story of what might have happened after everything appeared. And yet Stephen Hawking is rich?

[MementoMori]

Yep, to me the only thing the big bang theory has ever explained is why the universe is expanding. If you ask someone who believes the big bang theory what caused the jump from nothing to everything they will tell you they don't know. It doesn't describe how anything came into existence, it just tells the story of what might have happened after everything appeared My theory is that if the big bang did happen then: The universe over a GIGANTIC amount of time eventually collapses into blackholes that fall into greater black holes until it all compresses and then "Big Bang's" again... repeating this for all of eternity. My theory on death is that our bodies pass away but our consciousness moves onto either: 1) it is recycled energy passed onto the rest of the flow of energy, 2) it is a different form of matter that exists in it's own dimension or plane interacting with this one using our body as an anchor and when the body dies we return to that plane or dimension taking the knowledge and experience with us and staying there/ or being "reincarnated" into another "anchor" to gather more knowledge and experience. or 3) this is the ultimate sum of reality and everything gathers here to add to it's development and expansion. We are born here to do what we may good or bad (hopefully good) and then we die, only living on after death threw what we leave behind...

[Jesus of Suburbia]

My theory is that if the big bang did happen then: The universe over a GIGANTIC amount of time eventually collapses into blackholes that fall into greater black holes until it all compresses and then "Big Bang's" again... repeating this for all of eternity. Because eventually, there will not be enough energy to power everything because energy cannot be created or destroyed. So eventually, something will run out of energy and try to get more but in doing so create a black hole and suck the universe back to one point, therefore creating another small dot of whatever. See, my theory is that the big bang was caused by too much energy and matter being stored into one too-small place, therefore causing an explosion that sent everything spiraling outwards. Another thing, most people say that the universe doesn't go on forever, it's just that it's expanding at a rate that: If you were to go in a spaceship that reached the speed of light, you wouldn't even get close to the end.