Thread: Does religion benefit society as a whole?

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

I never made any claims about a lack of charity organizations in the absence of religion.

Don't worry I'm not arguing, I'm just supplementing .

Not to mention that the christian charity organizations suck.

They don't play well with others.

The biggest problem with Christianity I see today that wasn't like this before was that we (yes I'm Christian) try to shove our rules down peoples throats because the world has gotten comfortable with us being here. The major problems change over the years (or decades or centuries). If you have ever read the book of acts (I'm not telling you to do it) Paul (or was it peter) is what the ideal Christian would look like if you look at the church then it was actually quite beneficial to the roman empire. That's not really the case today though most Christians from what I understand are legalists, and yes I'm a hypocrite.

Originally Posted by Caprisun

Religion stifles free thought and natural curiosity and promotes ignorance as a virtue.

Interesting.....Care to give a source? A Example? How about a personal experience? No. Nothing? Then this is all void and has no ground to stand on.

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

Interesting.....Care to give a source? A Example? How about a personal experience? No. Nothing? Then this is all void and has no ground to stand on.

"God did it, and that's all you need to know. Evolution is fake because we the church say so. Don't bother hunting for your own answers, cuz we're right."

Not stifling at all.

Originally Posted by Mario92

"God did it, and that's all you need to know. Evolution is fake because we the church say so. Don't bother hunting for your own answers, cuz we're right."

Not stifling at all.

Nice a stereotypical response. Got any more?

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

Nice a stereotypical response. Got any more?

Is that not enough? Those are some pretty major issues concerning free thought, don't you think? Do they teach that it's wrong to question God? You are told to accept everything in the bible on faith, some of which clearly contradicts reality. The mere concept of faith alone is the antithesis of free thought. I can't think of a more clear cut example. When science conflicts with the Word of God, you are told by default to side with God. Thus you are not free to think your own thoughts.

Originally Posted by Caprisun

Is that not enough? Those are some pretty major issues concerning free thought, don't you think? Do they teach that it's wrong to question God? You are told to accept everything in the bible on faith, some of which clearly contradicts reality. The mere concept of faith alone is the antithesis of free thought. I can't think of a more clear cut example. When science conflicts with the Word of God, you are told by default to side with God. Thus you are not free to think your own thoughts.

True but I would like it be a actual response rather then a automated one. Could you give few examples please. So were actually comparing God to Human's here? So much for that.

I'm going to have to disagree with most of what I've ready here. If someone else has made this point already, I'm sorry I didn't see it. Religion does nothing but hinder. There are no benefits whatsoever to it. Organized religion's only goal is to deter personal growth and promote a unity of mindless drones in order to make it easier to control them. I have no problem whatsoever in the belief of God or even every story in the Holy Bible. I believe them. Then again, I believe in every story that has ever been told and ever will be told. With infinite dimensions and possibilities, every story is true. But while I will debate my beliefs and reasons for them, I will never push them on others, because just because what I believe is right, doesn't mean what you believe is wrong. Spirituality is all encompassing and should be embraced. Religeon is narrow minded and should be rejected. Anyone ever notice the resemblance between religion and superiority groups like the KKK? The only difference is that religions find themselves superior to more people. Indeed the KKK is only an offspring to religion. The KKK would wish others dead, but religion wishes people to go to hell, which in my opinion is merely a made up place in order to keep people afraid, and thus easier to control. Tell me what person deserves an eternity of torment? If anyone answered this and actually believes someone does, they need to seriously refamiliarize themselves with the idea of eternity. I don't care if you raped a kid, murdered millions or even billions. Sure they deserve some nasty treatment. But eternity really? I think a lot of people instinctively associate eternity with a really long time with the possibility of escape or redemtion. No. Eternity is forever and ever. A million years of torture, then a million more after that. And that isn't even a millimeter to a lightyear, because it never ends. If anyone really wishes hell on another being, I would say they deserve more punishment than the person who murdered his whole family. You bear that whip and fire and see how long you have the desire to use it. Sorry, I kind of veered off there. Anyway, what I am trying to say is people should be enlightened, not filled with horror stories. A person should do good in life, not because they are afraid of punishment or even wish for greater reward when they get to "heaven". They should do it because the want to do it. Go spirituality. Down with religion

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

Could you give few examples please.

Galileo Galilei - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

True but I would like it be a actual response rather then a automated one. Could you give few examples please. So were actually comparing God to Human's here? So much for that.

Why are you pretending like you are unaware of any conflicts? Do you need me to specify so you can ackowledge their existence? Is blind faith not the foundation of every large religious institution on our planet? That would mean your religion can't function at its most fundamental level without establishing a standard of ignorance among its followers. This is the corner stone of modern religion. What more could you want from me?

Spartiate offered an example from history, but there are plenty of cases which still exist today. Evolution does conflict with the bible, despite what some Christians will tell you. The big bang theory is also a hot issue in religious circles. These are two of the most important and most sound theories in all of science, almost irrefutable, at least from a layman's perspective. Yet you are taught to ignore this evidence because faith in God is a virtue and he will reward you for your obedience. If you are a Christian, you are taught to discriminate against homosexuals when it is clear that there is nothing unethical about homosexuality. There is literally nothing beyond the words in the bible which would indicate any of it is true, but you are told to hold fast because it will be worth it in the end. I can't think of an institution in existence which could better epitomize the oppression of free thought.

Originally Posted by Caprisun

Why are you pretending like you are unaware of any conflicts? Do you need me to specify so you can ackowledge their existence? Is blind faith not the foundation of every large religious institution on our planet? That would mean your religion can't function at its most fundamental level without establishing a standard of ignorance among its followers. This is the corner stone of modern religion. What more could you want from me?

Spartiate offered an example from history, but there are plenty of cases which still exist today. Evolution does conflict with the bible, despite what some Christians will tell you. The big bang theory is also a hot issue in religious circles. These are two of the most important and most sound theories in all of science, almost irrefutable, at least from a layman's perspective. Yet you are taught to ignore this evidence because faith in God is a virtue and he will reward you for your obedience. If you are a Christian, you are taught to discriminate against homosexuals when it is clear that there is nothing unethical about homosexuality. There is literally nothing beyond the words in the bible which would indicate any of it is true, but you are told to hold fast because it will be worth it in the end. I can't think of an institution in existence which could better epitomize the oppression of free thought.

Pretending? What do you mean? I asked for examples is that too much to ask? That right there is a downright lie. I mean to say "Is blind faith not the foundation of every large religious institution on our planet?" is stupid your saying that Religion doesn't bring facts which a lie because it does. Your just confusing yourself there.

Originally Posted by Caprisun

there is nothing unethical about homosexuality

That is your opinion to think that. What you need to understand is that not everyone thinks that way. Besides unethical varies throughout culture and countries. What you find ethical here might be totally unethical somewhere else and vice versa.

That is your opinion to think that. What you need to understand is that not everyone thinks that way. Besides unethical varies throughout culture and countries. What you find ethical here might be totally unethical somewhere else and vice versa.

Maybe you'd like to tell me how it is ethical to discriminate against someone for factors well beyond their control.

Originally Posted by VickDannon

I'm going to have to disagree with most of what I've ready here. If someone else has made this point already, I'm sorry I didn't see it. Religion does nothing but hinder. There are no benefits whatsoever to it. Organized religion's only goal is to deter personal growth and promote a unity of mindless drones in order to make it easier to control them. I have no problem whatsoever in the belief of God or even every story in the Holy Bible. I believe them. Then again, I believe in every story that has ever been told and ever will be told. With infinite dimensions and possibilities, every story is true. But while I will debate my beliefs and reasons for them, I will never push them on others, because just because what I believe is right, doesn't mean what you believe is wrong. Spirituality is all encompassing and should be embraced. Religeon is narrow minded and should be rejected. Anyone ever notice the resemblance between religion and superiority groups like the KKK? The only difference is that religions find themselves superior to more people. Indeed the KKK is only an offspring to religion. The KKK would wish others dead, but religion wishes people to go to hell, which in my opinion is merely a made up place in order to keep people afraid, and thus easier to control. Tell me what person deserves an eternity of torment? If anyone answered this and actually believes someone does, they need to seriously refamiliarize themselves with the idea of eternity. I don't care if you raped a kid, murdered millions or even billions. Sure they deserve some nasty treatment. But eternity really? I think a lot of people instinctively associate eternity with a really long time with the possibility of escape or redemtion. No. Eternity is forever and ever. A million years of torture, then a million more after that. And that isn't even a millimeter to a lightyear, because it never ends. If anyone really wishes hell on another being, I would say they deserve more punishment than the person who murdered his whole family. You bear that whip and fire and see how long you have the desire to use it. Sorry, I kind of veered off there. Anyway, what I am trying to say is people should be enlightened, not filled with horror stories. A person should do good in life, not because they are afraid of punishment or even wish for greater reward when they get to "heaven". They should do it because the want to do it. Go spirituality. Down with religion

This post makes no sense whatsoever. The KKK were a radical extremists they clearly didn't follow the rules. Please don't try and twist the truth here.

Originally Posted by VickDannon

Tell me what person deserves an eternity of torment? If anyone answered this and actually believes someone does, they need to seriously refamiliarize themselves with the idea of eternity. I don't care if you raped a kid, murdered millions or even billions. Sure they deserve some nasty treatment. But eternity really? I think a lot of people instinctively associate eternity with a really long time with the possibility of escape or redemtion. No. Eternity is forever and ever. A million years of torture, then a million more after that. And that isn't even a millimeter to a lightyear, because it never ends. If anyone really wishes hell on another being, I would say they deserve more punishment than the person who murdered his whole family.

I am sorry but this has got to be the most stupidest and utterly dumbest post I've read before. Here is few from the top of my head

1 Hitler
2 HITER
3 HITER!!!

He alone should be enough. All those innocent kids he fing killed and mutilated and you say he doesn't deserve hell? I do know what eternity means(even though I could never grasped with my mind) I still feel Child Rapist deserve the worst.......nothing in this life is bad enough they need eternity so that they know what they did.

Originally Posted by VickDannon

If anyone really wishes hell on another being, I would say they deserve more punishment than the person who murdered his whole family.

So with that rationale a good person who's been doing good all his life. One day is struck with tragedy by losing his daughter to a Killer who shows no remorse. The good man then says I hope you go to hell. By saying that and with your post. This Good man deserves a "Eternity" of hell(even though you said no one deserves it. Contradicting?) while the killer doesn't? God I hope your never a Jury member for murder case. We all know who you're siding with.Good luck with supporting Serial Killers/Child Rapists because I don't do that and never will.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Maybe you'd like to tell me how it is ethical to discriminate against someone for factors well beyond their control.

You're talking about the theorized "Homosexual Gene" aren't you. It's not a fact and has yet to be proved a fact. If it is proved to be fact then I'll be the first to say I was wrong and being to have doubts but..........until then this is all hearsay.

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

You're talking about the theorized "Homosexual Gene" aren't you. It's not a fact and has yet to be proved a fact. If it is proved to be fact then I'll be the first to say I was wrong and being to have doubts but..........until then this is all hearsay.

Wait... So you think a gay guy could just 'go back' and stop being gay? Do you think there's any problem with being gay?

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

You're talking about the theorized "Homosexual Gene" aren't you. It's not a fact and has yet to be proved a fact. If it is proved to be fact then I'll be the first to say I was wrong and being to have doubts but..........until then this is all hearsay.

You, sir, are a fucking troll and elementary debater. You are putting words in my mouth. This gay gene is only ONE possible explanation of homosexuality. There are many more possibilities, such as complications during fetal brain development. If you think a person can just decide to be gay, I present to you a challenge: turn gay. Do it right now. You will find your efforts futile.

He alone should be enough. All those innocent kids he fing killed and mutilated and you say he doesn't deserve hell? I do know what eternity means(even though I could never grasped with my mind) I still feel Child Rapist deserve the worst.......nothing in this life is bad enough they need eternity so that they know what they did.

Here's the problem...first you state that ethics change, then you condemn Hitler to a lifetime of hell. If there is no set law of ethics, how can you pass judgment on someone else such that you would sentence them to eternal torture. I'm not going to defend Hitler or his actions, but your rules of retribution do not make sense. They are inconsistent and narrow-minded.

So with that rationale a good person who's been doing good all his life. One day is struck with tragedy by losing his daughter to a Killer who shows no remorse. The good man then says I hope you go to hell. By saying that and with your post. This Good man deserves a "Eternity" of hell(even though you said no one deserves it. Contradicting?) while the killer doesn't? God I hope your never a Jury member for murder case. We all know who you're siding with.Good luck with supporting Serial Killers/Child Rapists because I don't do that and never will.

You really suck at debating, you know that? A third grader could find the holes in the tactics you're using. Your posts are seething cesspools of fallacies. You've got some slippery slope, generalization, ad hoc, ad hominem, argument from incredulity, and more. At the same time, you dismiss a person's entire post in one sentence without providing justification. We have provided examples of exactly how religion restricts freedom of thought. Religion is mass mind control. It is the biggest scam in human history. If you opened your eyes and stopped trusting in your blind, hollow beliefs, you may see that.

Originally Posted by Mario92

"God did it, and that's all you need to know. Evolution is fake because we the church say so. Don't bother hunting for your own answers, cuz we're right."

Not stifling at all.

People always want to control people, regardless of the puppetmasters convictions. In the past ten years someone in France was fined for publicly stating his disagreement with the states limiting drug laws. That didn't have to do with religion. The U.S.S.R. had it's own propaganda against relgion, just as Christian's have propaganda for it. This is natural. Manipulating people's actions isn't nearly as satisfying as manipulating their thoughts- at least to many evil people. This isn't a religous thing. It's a power/intoxication thing. It isn't even really in line with Biblical doctrine. I know a Muslim who says the same thing, that the Quran encourages understanding ones reason for belief. It's interesting to look at the politics of religion, but wrong to blame non-religious specific faults on the concept itself.

Originally Posted by Mario92

You, sir, are a fucking troll and elementary debater. You are putting words in my mouth. This gay gene is only ONE possible explanation of homosexuality. There are many more possibilities, such as complications during fetal brain development. If you think a person can just decide to be gay, I present to you a challenge: turn gay. Do it right now. You will find your efforts futile.

I just assumed you talking about that. Yes there are many other reasons in which I am ready to debate. There is no reason for you to be cussing at me. If you don't agree with me fine I understand that but to call me a troll is another. I am here giving my opinions and point of view just like any other member. I am really sorry if my post offended you. Just thought I give my take on it.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Here's the problem...first you state that ethics change, then you condemn Hitler to a lifetime of hell. If there is no set law of ethics, how can you pass judgment on someone else such that you would sentence them to eternal torture. I'm not going to defend Hitler or his actions, but your rules of retribution do not make sense. They are inconsistent and narrow-minded.

My beliefs are if you do what Hitler did you end up in hell. Just sating my beliefs and I understand yours differ. We can debate about that and that would be nice. I am sorry you believe they are that way.

Originally Posted by Mario92

You really suck at debating, you know that? A third grader could find the holes in the tactics you're using. Your posts are seething cesspools of fallacies. You've got some slippery slope, generalization, ad hoc, ad hominem, argument from incredulity, and more. At the same time, you dismiss a person's entire post in one sentence without providing justification. We have provided examples of exactly how religion restricts freedom of thought. Religion is mass mind control. It is the biggest scam in human history. If you opened your eyes and stopped trusting in your blind, hollow beliefs, you may see that.

Yet again I see no need to call each others names but I understand seeing has I called another members post "Stupid and dumb" and should not be surprised when mine's is called names as well. I don't follow my religion blindly I question it. I am seeing that am becoming a nuisance here to everyone seeing has I don't agree with everyone. I also don't want to get banned for hijacking this thread and other stuff. Again am really sorry that I offended anyone with my posts. If there is another thread in which we can debate this I would be happy to join. But I won't do it here seeing its not on topic. Sorry again

I'm not saying religion is exclusive in the matter, but the way it tends to go about conducting its business, it certainly isn't helping or sitting back and idly watching.

I haven't read any comments other than the title of this thread. My answer is: No

Religion divides people, Religion makes you feel guilty, unworthy, and self-pity.


Religion does nothing other than create diversion between countries and nations.

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

I just assumed you talking about that. Yes there are many other reasons in which I am ready to debate. There is no reason for you to be cussing at me. If you don't agree with me fine I understand that but to call me a troll is another. I am here giving my opinions and point of view just like any other member. I am really sorry if my post offended you. Just thought I give my take on it.





My beliefs are if you do what Hitler did you end up in hell. Just sating my beliefs and I understand yours differ. We can debate about that and that would be nice. I am sorry you believe they are that way.





Yet again I see no need to call each others names but I understand seeing has I called another members post "Stupid and dumb" and should not be surprised when mine's is called names as well. I don't follow my religion blindly I question it. I am seeing that am becoming a nuisance here to everyone seeing has I don't agree with everyone. I also don't want to get banned for hijacking this thread and other stuff. Again am really sorry that I offended anyone with my posts. If there is another thread in which we can debate this I would be happy to join. But I won't do it here seeing its not on topic. Sorry again

I don't see why you should be sorry for offending anyone. I think the concern is well intended, but this is R/S. Everyone knows the stakes. So you aren't being a nuisance because your beliefs are different from the majority. That was why this sub-forum was made; so people could discuss reigion and debate their own view points and be comfortable about it. If anyone was really getting annoyed, they should have just left. Plus, this conversation seems perfectly on topic to me. The latest conversation is asking a basic question that has to be answered before any conclusion to the OPs question can be reached.

Originally Posted by Mario92

I'm not saying religion is exclusive in the matter, but the way it tends to go about conducting its business, it certainly isn't helping or sitting back and idly watching.

Sure. But I could say the same type of thing about political parties, major media stations, business organizations... I won't blame journalism for the desire to control people just like I won't balame any one thing for such a general problem, including religion. So, if religion does hurt society as a whole, it doesn't do so through mind-control, not directly at least. If anything, it enables other problems. But it isn't the cause of them.

Originally Posted by Jorge

I haven't read any comments other than the title of this thread. My answer is: No

Politics divides people, Politics makes you feel guilty, unworthy, and self-pity.


Politics does nothing other than create diversion between countries and nations.

See what I did thar? But seriously, making blanket statements about an entire type of thought because of some of it's apparent fruits is not going to be particularly objective. How many words can I fill in for the place of religion in your post and have people buy it as truth? As many institutions/schools of thought as there are people who have been negatively affected by whatever word I am using as a fill-in and have negative bias.

Yeah, sorry about blasting you there. I tend to get a bit carried away sometimes.

Originally Posted by Mario92

OP, I am new to beliefs other than Christianity, could you or anyone explain what "the dark ages" part of this picture represents? Why is it a flat line? I am a bit confused.


Thank You