Ok, I accept all of that - even though it's a rather ironic analogy considering many of the terrorists are suicide bombers!! |
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Let me put it another way |
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Last edited by Omnis Dei; 11-30-2011 at 07:45 PM.
Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.
Ok, I accept all of that - even though it's a rather ironic analogy considering many of the terrorists are suicide bombers!! |
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I fall back on my first point: Truth is the gestalt. |
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Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.
Ah, but it seems to be a gestalt of truth and falsehoods woven together inextricably. |
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That doesn't mean that false things are true. False things are sometimes interesting, extremely so sometimes. They can be very beautiful. But to live your life in delusion is not so good in my experience. Very wasteful. |
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Information is a battle tactic, nothing more. |
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Last edited by Omnis Dei; 11-30-2011 at 08:26 PM.
Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.
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Last edited by Darkmatters; 11-30-2011 at 08:28 PM.
Well... let's imagine a meeting between an atheist and religious zealot. The atheist uses calm reasoning and the religious zealot dismisses it. Does this make the religious zealot wrong? They're simply choosing Tradition over Discovery in this specific scenario. And why shouldn't they? Tradition has delivered them thus far, tradition has provided a model of existence that they have found agreeable and furthermore, it may be that the tradition is rooted in an investment and cannot be easily dislodged (if they stop believing, they'll go to hell or won't go to heaven according to their beliefs). This means they might be afraid of giving up their beliefs, but does being afraid make you wrong? |
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Last edited by Omnis Dei; 11-30-2011 at 08:45 PM.
Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.
When did I claim that people believe something that they don't think is true? I said that religious belief is in general believing things that you don't know; that you hope are true or that someone else told you are true and you are taking their word for it. Most people believe things because other people decided it was most likely or worse that it would be profitable for them if people believed it. |
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Last edited by StonedApe; 11-30-2011 at 08:57 PM.
Ok, again, I can accept all of this - but it means we have no way to know which truth is more true. Does science have all the answers? Of course not - you could agglomorate (is that a word? ) all known scientific models of a human being - the cellular, the atomic, the genome etc, and it fails to tell you anything about a person that's as relevant and useful as knowing their personality or being in love with them or being an enemy... these are all just different perspectives, and each has value in different cases. For a medical emergency I'd trust the medical perspective (but then the question becomes - which doctor. which technique). But for dealing with a person face to face you want to know them personally and possibly have some psychological insight that comes from book learning (especially if they have some kind of personality disorder or something). |
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Well, the OP is meaningless unless we accept that the word Truth as used in it is completely subjective - not objective reality. |
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Omnis - he's arguing for Objective truth and you're arguing for Subjective truth - you're not going to make any headway. I think in order for this to go any farther (meaningfully) it would require a more proper definition of exactly what's meant by TRUTH in the OP. |
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Says you. Fearing change causes people to be cautious of change so they can preserve their form. Do you buy into every crazy idea someone tells you? Too much of either polarity leads to problems, mutation or preservation. |
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Last edited by Omnis Dei; 11-30-2011 at 09:38 PM.
Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.
Sure, my point is just that most of these subjective truths are actually just delusion(or metaphor mistaken for being reality; though that is delusion isn't it?). They're what people want to be the truth(in the sense of reality) rather than what the truth is. The concept of subjective truth seems like bullshit to me though. There's the concept subjectivity, what is the use of adding the word truth on the end of it? |
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Hehehehehe. So we could reduce this thread to: all points of view are subjective. Or: all points of view are points of view. |
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The one that works for me: |
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I never read the OP, sorry. I read the title an agreed with it. I don't agree that "each point of view is true" but I do agree that "all points of view are truth." Truth is nothing less than the gestalt. |
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Last edited by Omnis Dei; 11-30-2011 at 10:04 PM.
Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.
You responded lengthily and proceeded to argue about an OP that you didn't read? lol. It wasn't even a long OP. |
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I did no such thing. I only ever argued my point of view. |
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Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.
I know that was meant for Omnis, but I must admit - I did read the OP but I'm mostly just responding to the title as well. |
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How about |
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Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.
Keep working on it.. |
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Last edited by Darkmatters; 12-01-2011 at 12:17 AM.
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