Thread: Faith Morality, It's In Your Head

What about your belief, is it not a construct of your mind too?

Originally Posted by Jess

What about your belief, is it not a construct of your mind too?[/b]

Yes. Do you agree?
Belief, faith, morals, will, determination.
They can all be attached randomly to a benevolent being.

I want to thank god our my win at the state championship.
The other Team had the same prayer.

God give me the determination to go on with my life. When it is absorbed and believed, it can. It does not mean any god had anything to do with it. Again, in your head.

Most religious people seem to be on one side of the fence or the other.
Asking a god why or thanking a god.
The entire time it is circumstance.

You could call religion the ultimate Placebo.

That's why I'm not for religion, but spirituality. Although, when you're connected to something higher, you can feel it, it's not just an abstract thought...

Have you never felt divine peace or love or faith in your life?

Originally Posted by Howietzer

Yes. Do you agree?
Belief, faith, morals, will, determination.[/b]

Perhaps.

What do you view as morally acceptable that our society views as morally unacceptable?

Originally Posted by MrGrEmLiN

That's why I'm not for religion, but spirituality. Although, when you're connected to something higher, you can feel it, it's not just an abstract thought...

Have you never felt divine peace or love or faith in your life?[/b]

How do you know it is not an abstract thought?
I believe I have felt love and peace come over me. The experiences were magnificent.
But I believe them to be firing neurons creating a euphoria from dopamine or something in the realm of science.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(&#39;Jess")</div>

Perhaps.
What do you view as morally acceptable that our society views as morally unacceptable?[/b]

Not too much really.
I guess because I view homosexuality as something that is not a choice, I don&#39;t feel they should be neglected some of the rights that they are. Yet at the same time, I don&#39;t feel they are the best equipped to raise a family.
This is one reason I feel religion, although blind is a good crutch for society.

I would much rather see the masses of sheople wake up and create their own morals. But that scare me.
So religion is the better of the two.

Then explain to me how those stimules showed up in the first place, how abstract thought appeared, how any form of consciousness appeared. For me those answers can only be answered through the existence of some spiritual life principle.

Originally Posted by MrGrEmLiN

Then explain to me how those stimules showed up in the first place, how abstract thought appeared, how any form of consciousness appeared. For me those answers can only be answered through the existence of some spiritual life principle.[/b]

Oh boy MrGrEmLiN
Consciousness. That in itself is such a deep topic.
I have many threads of my own picking at it, looking at consciousness from all angles I can.
So how would I stae such a massive somewhat vague topic to coincide with mysticism and spirituality?

I guess the basic fundamental of what consciousness is.
The state of being conscious; awareness of one&#39;s own existence, sensations, thoughts, surroundings. And the level of consciousness in itself can range in degree from one animal to the next and from one person to the next.
But awareness of oneself is a good place to look when you ask yourself, who am I? where did I come from. These reasonings beg for an almighty answer.
But conscious existed long before you or I arrived. We are on an ever changing level of consciousness and awareness. Similar to any thought pattern just encompassed as a whole.

I dont continue on this path becuase it makes me happy or it puts me at peace, but becuase I have personal revelations that its real. youre ignoring spiritual experiences, even miracles witnessed by thousands at a time. people do not just believe in things becuase they were told to or because it makes them happy - they choose to becuase they believe its real.

Originally Posted by juroara

I dont continue on this path becuase it makes me happy or it puts me at peace, but becuase I have personal revelations that its real. youre ignoring spiritual experiences, even miracles witnessed by thousands at a time. people do not just believe in things becuase they were told to or because it makes them happy - they choose to becuase they believe its real.[/b]

I understand where your coming from but a few questions you have to ask yourself are. Where did conciousness originate? What is the origin of the universe? I mean you can say the big bang is the origin of the universe, but what caused the massive compaction of the universe into such a small space. It&#39;s truly unexplainable by science. I think that science can explain 99% of things but that 1% can only be answered by PERSONAL human experience and can&#39;t be proven or disproven.

Originally Posted by Miskingo

I understand where your coming from but a few questions you have to ask yourself are. Where did conciousness originate? What is the origin of the universe? I mean you can say the big bang is the origin of the universe, but what caused the massive compaction of the universe into such a small space. It&#39;s truly unexplainable by science. I think that science can explain 99% of things but that 1% can only be answered by PERSONAL human experience and can&#39;t be proven or disproven.[/b]

I dont understand what youre getting at

Yes, for time religion has provided basic morals for society. Regardless of its accuracy, it ahs provided morals. Which is more than science can do. But I lbieeve we have, as a speices, evolved far enough not to need all this crap surrounding and supporting our morals. Surely we can abandon religion ands til lbleieve that it is wrong to rape, steal, murder, lie? I mean, the atheists manage it. Yo ucant tell me every eatheist is devoid of morality?

Religion WAS needed, but its served its purpose. ITs got us to where we are now. Where we no longer need it.


Imran

Originally Posted by Miskingo

I understand where your coming from but a few questions you have to ask yourself are. Where did conciousness originate? What is the origin of the universe? I mean you can say the big bang is the origin of the universe, but what caused the massive compaction of the universe into such a small space. It&#39;s truly unexplainable by science. I think that science can explain 99% of things but that 1% can only be answered by PERSONAL human experience and can&#39;t be proven or disproven.[/b]

This is exactly peoples&#39; reasoning to why they consturct a god. As I stated, if it is not to give answer to what we do not know, it is for comfort. Comfort that you simply don&#39;t have an answer or do not understand. You know where you are going when you die.

Not having an answer does not give means to a god. It gives cause to create one.

Originally Posted by MrGrEmLiN

That&#39;s why I&#39;m not for religion, but spirituality. Although, when you&#39;re connected to something higher, you can feel it, it&#39;s not just an abstract thought...

Have you never felt divine peace or love or faith in your life?[/b]

Pure science right there man. (*sarcasm* ) "Because it feels real, it isn&#39;t just in your head, it is more then abstract.". That sais nothing. A dream might feel real, as much a trip on drugs, as might any other belief. Every religion in the world has people feeling like that.


Both the Christian Crusaders and the Muslims Killing them thought it wasn&#39;t just something &#39;abstract&#39;, but a real god wanting them to do what they did.

So what&#39;s wrong with it? Even if it is a mere construction. Having a model to explain something is an excellent and quite valuable thing. Science can&#39;t explain the beginning of the universe (science can only explain everything a peta-second after the big bang not the big bang itself ie what started it).

It&#39;s amazing though isn&#39;t it

So what&#092;&#39;s wrong with it? Even if it is a mere construction. Having a model to explain something is an excellent and quite valuable thing. Science can&#092;&#39;t explain the beginning of the universe (science can only explain everything a peta-second after the big bang not the big bang itself ie what started it).

It&#092;&#39;s amazing though isn&#092;&#39;t it[/b]

Why would anybody knowingly want to believe an imperfect belief? I attach myself to no religion because it is a subscription to a set of beliefs, and that those beliefs are desired by god.

Look, there may be a god, but there isnt a damn person on this planet who has the right answer. If you say you do, and many people do, than you are guilty of the worst ignorance.

The origin of the universe? I wasnt there, and it happened before intelligence, so i wont try to explain it. Just because scientists cannot explain it doesnt prove a god exists. Keep in mind, we still dont even know what gravity IS. How can we explain the origin if we cant explain that?

Well as I said earlier I think religion can be a good crutch for society.
It has also been the reasons for many atrocities.

I think Irman P has a good point but I think as a whole the world is not ready to wake up.
A model? More like a vial.
I don&#39;t want to live a live under a vial of lies. There is one truth.
We all can choose our own.
Yes, it is amazing.

We all can choose our own.
Yes, it is amazing.[/b]

Their is no free will. Plus even if their was free will were so brain washed that we are heavily biased.

lol you make me laugh plus saying "There is no God" is all in your head.

My 50 cents:

LD&#39;ing has drastically changed my spirituality over the last few years.

Everything I think, everything I percieve, is all a construct of my mind. All is abstract in this way: What I think of the universe and religion is all a construct of my mind; equally, the solidity of the keyboard that I type on is a construct of my mind.

The heft of the bible in your hand, the language on its paper is all a construct of mind. The ideas that you percieve within it are also mental constructs.

What is my reference for this? When I dream, the solid walls of a room around me, the grass underneath my feet, and the air that I float in are all a construct of my mind. The problems I resolve are all constructs, both the RealWorld problem and the dream world resolution. The "people" that I meet and assimilate, both friendly and frightening, are constructs of my mind.

And, sometimes my dream constructs are more real than RealWorld constructs. Sometimes my introspections trump my waking perceptions.
-------

No, there may not be any true free will. But, very few people in our society can function on a day to day basis on the assumption that they are not making choices for themselves. It is not a healthy thing for someone to be constantly living as if they make none of their own choices in their own life. For all intents and purposes, we must operate as if we have free will.

---
Morals are not dependent on religion. Just because many modern people attach morals to religion does not mean it is a necessity. Many old religions made the local king the god, which gave him carte blanche to do what he pleased. Did the ancients think that the BIG SPIRITS were telling them not to murder each other as they tossed virgins onto the fire, or when they went to war? But, they probably had social rules saying "don&#39;t murder your neighbor", just to keep the peace within the village.

Besides, some non-humans have moral structures, like chimps. But, we don&#39;t see religion among them.

Originally Posted by Faken

lol you make me laugh plus saying "There is no God" is all in your head.[/b]

I do come across very strongly to proclaim there is no god. I do not know this.

My bigger argument is there is no true religion. I am not trying to deny an existence of any higher being.
Through my own Objective reasoning I have concluded what I have posted.

I would like something to give me faith. To have a God.
It is so illogical to me for a god as most know it to be, to exist from what I see in front of me.

I do believe in some higher power.
I just am not claiming to no a thing about "it."

Originally Posted by Howietzer

I do believe in some higher power.
I just am not claiming to no a thing about "it."[/b]

Sounds like Gnosticism.

Your avatar is wicked folded.

thanks jess. It&#39;s my own nasty microbe. made it with Blender.

Originally Posted by Jess

Sounds like Gnosticism.[/b]

It does. But I am in search of a truer label, if I was to claim one.

Your avatar is wicked folded. <--- I was sitting here thinking. I don&#39;t get it. My avatar is completely black, folded it would look the same.

It does. But I am in search of a truer label, if I was to claim one.

Your avatar is wicked folded. <--- I was sitting here thinking. I don&#092;&#39;t get it. My avatar is completely black, folded it would look the same.[/b]

Ah, man dont worry about finding a lable. I think there would be less BS involved with religion if everybody practiced their own variation of religion. Grouping together in masses (church, service, etc.) can be very fulfilling and can do a lot of good, but it also has negatives.

Christians, do as Jesus described the sabbath. Group together with your family and friends, and read his stories. Jesus&#092;&#39; message is a very good one, and every person should live by it. Just dont let your priest/pastor tell you to be anti war or pro life.