Thread: Why Believe???

Originally Posted by InTransit

I voted other.

"Which is the most universal human characteristic? Fear or laziness?"

I subscribe to the notion that people are too lazy to take control of their own lives, so they create some omnipotent figure to lay their lives down to. Whenever something happens that they can't explain, that they are too lazy to explain, that they are too afraid to explain, they leave it all in the hands of some being apart from their 'self' to find some comfort in ignorance.

The truth is scary, even horrifying. Not many are able to accept reality as it is. Instead of living in the moment, the majority of people try to justify their actions by pleasing some sort of 'god' that will give them pleasure, constantly living in the past and the future, but never in the present.

I'm sorry you have such a narrow view of the world. Your explanation completely disregards people that believe in god but do not aim to please, and do not use it to explain phenomena.

What then, is the point of believing in a god, if not out of fear? In a way, they are 'pleasing' the god they believe in, by the simple fact of believing in that particular god.

If they believe in their god out of love, isn't that for the pleasure of the god as well?

Also, if their aim is not to please, and they don't use god to explain a phenomena, why do they need god at all?

Originally Posted by InTransit

What then, is the point of believing in a god, if not out of fear? In a way, they are 'pleasing' the god they believe in, by the simple fact of believing in that particular god.

If they believe in their god out of love, isn't that for the pleasure of the god as well?

Also, if their aim is not to please, and they don't use god to explain a phenomena, why do they need god at all?

If you aren't afraid of God, than you shouldn't believe in God... Is that what you were saying??? I'm confused with your post... People believe in God so that they can get advantages???

Originally Posted by InTransit

What then, is the point of believing in a god, if not out of fear? In a way, they are 'pleasing' the god they believe in, by the simple fact of believing in that particular god.

If they believe in their god out of love, isn't that for the pleasure of the god as well?

Also, if their aim is not to please, and they don't use god to explain a phenomena, why do they need god at all?

What is the point of believing in anything, except that one thinks that it is true? Why must one have a need for a thing that they believe to be true? I have no need for haley's comet (as far as I can tell) but I believe it to exist.

I don't see the point in any religion. Why is there a need to have someone above you? Is it humanity's answer to where it all came from, because we can't figure it out, and we have a need to know everything, and then it escalated into a large amount of people who believe in this answer, and are so used to it that they won't change to fit science's answer?

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

What is the point of believing in anything, except that one thinks that it is true? Why must one have a need for a thing that they believe to be true? I have no need for haley's comet (as far as I can tell) but I believe it to exist.

Someone might believe in God because they're scared of hell or of not having an afterlife... Some people use God to cope with these stressful and depressing feelings...

Some theists don't want to face reality... (What I think is reality)

Originally Posted by NightLife

If you aren't afraid of God, than you shouldn't believe in God... Is that what you were saying???

Not...necessarily. The concept of 'god' is a separate entity outside of what could be regarded as the human self. Now, because of the need for having comfort, human beings will more than gladly act in the name of that separate entity instead of taking responsibility for their actions. Believers do such acts as praying in order to get a favorable outcome as a way to try to control a situation they have no power over. Human beings feel comforted by the notion that they have some benevolent being watching over them.

But suppose you take responsibility for your actions, instead of saying, "In the name of Christ." And suppose you just let go of your vain attempts to control others, and situations and events you have no power over. I'm not advocating apathy, but what happens, happens. Instead of trying to distort your perception of reality with false hopes and you accept everything as it is, then what is the use of a 'god'? A separate entity? You find comfort within yourself. Why should you have to look to some being that is intangible, when you can readily solve all of the problems facing you, in the present, with your own mind.

Originally Posted by Nightlife

I'm confused with your post... People believe in God so that they can get advantages???

In a way yes. The advantage is comfort and peace of mind. But again, why believe in a separate entity? Suppose that God is a creation of man. When you look at it that way, that a god of any religion exists solely in the mind, couldn't you just shift your view to see that the individual is actually the one solving his/her own problems?

Originally Posted by InTransit

Not...necessarily. The concept of 'god' is a separate entity outside of what could be regarded as the human self. Now, because of the need for having comfort, human beings will more than gladly act in the name of that separate entity instead of taking responsibility for their actions. Believers do such acts as praying in order to get a favorable outcome as a way to try to control a situation they have no power over. Human beings feel comforted by the notion that they have some benevolent being watching over them.

But suppose you take responsibility for your actions, instead of saying, "In the name of Christ." And suppose you just let go of your vain attempts to control others, and situations and events you have no power over. I'm not advocating apathy, but what happens, happens. Instead of trying to distort your perception of reality with false hopes and you accept everything as it is, then what is the use of a 'god'? A separate entity? You find comfort within yourself. Why should you have to look to some being that is intangible, when you can readily solve all of the problems facing you, in the present, with your own mind.



In a way yes. The advantage is comfort and peace of mind. But again, why believe in a separate entity? Suppose that God is a creation of man. When you look at it that way, that a god of any religion exists solely in the mind, couldn't you just shift your view to see that the individual is actually the one solving his/her own problems?

Another advantage could be better treatment in heaven or whatever a theist might believe in... If you find comfort within yourself, than the only reason to be faithful is for an afterlife... What I don't understand is that many people pray and follow through will sacraments so that they can get into heaven... Wouldn't that be considered praying not for the love of God but for what God has to offer... In that case, why would God let any of those people into heaven???

Of course the most logical response is, Why do you need to believe that god does not exist?

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

What is the point of believing in anything, except that one thinks that it is true? Why must one have a need for a thing that they believe to be true? I have no need for haley's comet (as far as I can tell) but I believe it to exist.

Isn't there a difference between believing something to be true, and knowing something to be true? The former is based on faith, the latter on fact. An individual can believe any number of things as true, as long as it's sold to them correctly. However, there is still that curiosity, or at least there should be, that compels them to acknowledge their faith as facts.

It's not necessarily a need for a thing that they believe to be true. It could be that they want their beliefs to be true. This continual focus on wants, instead of needs is what blinds the majority today, and I will confess that I am guilty of wanting, who isn't (aside from ascetics)?

I have no need for haley's comet as well, but I'm fine with it existing or being a complete hoax. It's existence or non-existence has no bearing on my reality whatsoever, until I can actually perceive it, and enjoy the experience of seeing it.

Originally Posted by InTransit

Isn't there a difference between believing something to be true, and knowing something to be true? The former is based on faith, the latter on fact. An individual can believe any number of things as true, as long as it's sold to them correctly. However, there is still that curiosity, or at least there should be, that compels them to acknowledge their faith as facts.

It's not necessarily a need for a thing that they believe to be true. It could be that they want their beliefs to be true. This continual focus on wants, instead of needs is what blinds the majority today, and I will confess that I am guilty of wanting, who isn't (aside from ascetics)?

I have no need for haley's comet as well, but I'm fine with it existing or being a complete hoax. It's existence or non-existence has no bearing on my reality whatsoever, until I can actually perceive it, and enjoy the experience of seeing it.

But you can right now!

Heh, this is a really interesting conversation. It's actually the first sort of religious/philosophical discussion I've participated in outside of talking about this topic with my friends. If I'm offending anyone, well tough luck, but I'm still seeking the 'truth' and reading the comments has actually made me think about things I haven't thought of before.

This may be a bit off-topic but as for the topic of the afterlife, how about this perspective. From a scientific point of view (I'm in no way advocating a scientific approach to all the answers of 'life') when the body dies, there is still around fifteen minutes of brain activity. During that time, all of the inhibitory neurons stop functioning, and your brain is pretty much having the most intense trip its ever had. Now, this is exactly what happens when you are having a lucid dream. Those inhibitory neurons in our brains stop inhibiting, and perceptual images are seen as 'real' in our dreams. So with that being said, couldn't the afterlife just be a lucid dream that doesn't end?

Now, from a religious standpoint, if you led a 'sinful' life, and you weren't in control of your dreamworld, your subconscious would literally put you through hell. But if you lived a 'religious life', your subconscious would project images of heaven, and angels, and peace and tranquility. Basically, everything you would expect from 'heaven' would be projected from your subconscious.

This scenario is actually one of the main reasons that got me interested in lucid dreaming in the first place.

I declare this thread officially jacked.



Also, all of those are reasons for why people believe in God. Not every single theist believes in God for the exact same reason. I can't choose all of the options; therefore, I sentence this thread to the Stomp.

Originally Posted by InTransit

Heh, this is a really interesting conversation. It's actually the first sort of religious/philosophical discussion I've participated in outside of talking about this topic with my friends. If I'm offending anyone, well tough luck, but I'm still seeking the 'truth' and reading the comments has actually made me think about things I haven't thought of before.

This may be a bit off-topic but as for the topic of the afterlife, how about this perspective. From a scientific point of view (I'm in no way advocating a scientific approach to all the answers of 'life') when the body dies, there is still around fifteen minutes of brain activity. During that time, all of the inhibitory neurons stop functioning, and your brain is pretty much having the most intense trip its ever had. Now, this is exactly what happens when you are having a lucid dream. Those inhibitory neurons in our brains stop inhibiting, and perceptual images are seen as 'real' in our dreams. So with that being said, couldn't the afterlife just be a lucid dream that doesn't end?

Now, from a religious standpoint, if you led a 'sinful' life, and you weren't in control of your dreamworld, your subconscious would literally put you through hell. But if you lived a 'religious life', your subconscious would project images of heaven, and angels, and peace and tranquility. Basically, everything you would expect from 'heaven' would be projected from your subconscious.

This scenario is actually one of the main reasons that got me interested in lucid dreaming in the first place.

Is your conscious mind shut down when you die??? If it does, than you can't have a lucid dream... Best case scenario for this would be a 15 minutes dream because after that, you said that the brain shuts down... (Not in those exact words)

There IS a Supreme Being... a universal Mind that we live, move and have Our Being in... Could any individiual give life or create anything? Something created the diversity we see around us ~ I personally don't think 'THAT' can be named... for that is our limited minds putting a word/form to IT. Its beyond our comprehension. After all, I believe we are Spiritual Beings having a very brief physical experience.... and perhaps the sole purpose is LOVE>

Originally Posted by YRAM

There IS a Supreme Being... a universal Mind that we live, move and have Our Being in... Could any individiual give life or create anything? Something created the diversity we see around us ~ I personally don't think 'THAT' can be named... for that is our limited minds putting a word/form to IT. Its beyond our comprehension. After all, I believe we are Spiritual Beings having a very brief physical experience.... and perhaps the sole purpose is LOVE>

Then we're not doing a very good job... The soul purpose is procreation... Positive way of thinking though...

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

But you can right now!

Thanks for the picture! Actually seeing something is much different than having a visual picture in your head, and by providing that picture you gave me a direct way of perceiving and experiencing something that isn't physically in front of me right now.

But more to the point, when you first mentioned haley's comet, it's not like I sat here contemplating whether it existed or not. Although, I would have much rather preferred to see the comet streaking past the night sky in real-time, or even better yet seen it up close and personal.

Maybe I'll make that one of my goals in future lucid dreams, to ride haley's comet, but damnit, it's still only in my dreams haha.

Originally Posted by YRAM

There IS a Supreme Being... a universal Mind that we live, move and have Our Being in... Could any individiual give life or create anything? Something created the diversity we see around us ~ I personally don't think 'THAT' can be named... for that is our limited minds putting a word/form to IT. Its beyond our comprehension. After all, I believe we are Spiritual Beings having a very brief physical experience.... and perhaps the sole purpose is LOVE>

This is more of what I'm aiming for, the region of Eastern philosophy (mainly zen buddhism). Instead of relying on an outside presence, I believe (man, I kinda sound like a hypocrite) that the 'divine spirit' is within everybody.

Originally Posted by InTransit

This is more of what I'm aiming for, the region of Eastern philosophy (mainly zen buddhism). Instead of relying on an outside presence, I believe (man, I kinda sound like a hypocrite) that the 'divine spirit' is within everybody.

Yup, you've lost all credibility.

Originally Posted by Pyrofan1

Lern 2 spel plz

Lern ta put perods at teh end yo.

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Lern ta put perods at teh end yo.

weez bin ovur dis befour

I like how everyone is talking back to him, loll...

Originally Posted by NightLife

weez bin ovur dis befour

I like how everyone is talking back to him, loll...

Franks eye dint no becase eye fel aslep during klas.

I think religion is the result of teachings, which usually are given to people for the first time when they are children and given by people the children think have complete credibility, and the functioning of the "God part of the brain".

http://www.amazon.com/God-Part-Brain...9364337&sr=8-1

Originally Posted by NightLife

Another advantage could be better treatment in heaven or whatever a theist might believe in... If you find comfort within yourself, than the only reason to be faithful is for an afterlife... What I don't understand is that many people pray and follow through will sacraments so that they can get into heaven... Wouldn't that be considered praying not for the love of God but for what God has to offer... In that case, why would God let any of those people into heaven???

I don't believe in a thinking afterlife, and I pray..