Thread: Question for athiests...

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

First of all, Ninja posted the picture and I commented on it. Second of all, I have said a great deal in this thread. I challenge you to counter the points I have made. My pictures in debate threads are always supplements to verbal arguments.

Why would you challenge me to counter your previous arguments when I just challenged you to counter my current arguement? What sense does that make?

Originally Posted by ShadowNightWing

Why would you challenge me to counter your previous arguments when I just challenged you to counter my current arguement? What sense does that make?

I have made a zillion arguments in this thread, and you just showed up and untruthfully told me all I do is post pictures. If you want to see my arguments on why I think the Bible has been busted, read my earlier arguments. Then counter them.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I have made a zillion arguments in this thread, and you just showed up and untruthfully told me all I do is post pictures. If you want to see my arguments on why I think the Bible has been busted, read my earlier arguments. Then counter them.

Nah, thats okay it will be a waste of time and I already know how it will ultimately play out. You'll get pissed and start posting idiotic pictures and start fussing about this and that, like you always do. I'd rather wait for O'nus considering he has you beat in the intelligence department.

You want something to respond to? The Bible says the earth is a few thousand years old, how did this get here?

Originally Posted by khh

And you'd wish for your children to experience the same?

Yeah, kind of. I think i actually benefited from it, rather than being harmed by it. It was better for me as a child not to know about sex, so i wasnt looking up porn etc.

Originally Posted by Hercuflea

Yeah, kind of. I think i actually benefited from it, rather than being harmed by it. It was better for me as a child not to know about sex, so i wasnt looking up porn etc.

You consider not looking at porn a benefit?

Yeah

Hypocrisy 101:

Originally Posted by ShadowNightWing

I noticed a pattern with you and you do that when you have nothing intelligent to add or when your stuck and simply cannot refute the material.

Originally Posted by ShadowNightWing

Nah, thats okay it will be a waste of time and I already know how it will ultimately play out. You'll get pissed and start posting idiotic pictures and start fussing about this and that, like you always do. I'd rather wait for O'nus considering he has you beat in the intelligence department.

Since that's where we are again, here's another picture for you.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

You want something to respond to? The Bible says the earth is a few thousand years old, how did this get here?

It doesn't, actually. Even if you assume that there was a 24 hour day thing, it doesn't even come close to implying that. On multiple levels it avoids this.

Originally Posted by spockman

It doesn't, actually. Even if you assume that there was a 24 hour day thing, it doesn't even come close to implying that. On multiple levels it avoids this.

It mentions an explicit creation of humankind from nothing, along with everything else.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

It mentions an explicit creation of humankind from nothing, along with everything else.

Actually, the method of creation is completely avoided multiple times. All we know is that mankind rose from the dust, (which could very well imply evolution.) "For man does not know what the Lord has done from beginning, (most likely an allusion to the Genesis beginning,) to end."

Assuming God must have created 'from nothing' isn't drawing a conclusion from much of anything, either.

Besides, that is completely irrelevant to the age of the Earth.

BTW: That is a real recent change of sig, man. How long has xkcd had that one up? Like, two days?

Then you basically are saying that you don't literally interpret the bible which leads me to wonder why then you literally interpret that god is in fact a being, and that Jesus was him incarnate? I don't understand cherry picking other than to hold on to the notion of god and the jesus man.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

Then you basically are saying that you don't literally interpret the bible which leads me to wonder why then you literally interpret that god is in fact a being, and that Jesus was him incarnate? I don't understand cherry picking other than to hold on to the notion of god and the jesus man.

What do you mean not literally? That's either drawing assumptions or staw-manning, either or. 'God says- I created everything with my word. God later says- BTW, I'm not going to tell you how that works. Haha.'

It is not being metaphorical at all. If anything, saying that God created everything from nothing would be a non-literal interpretation.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

You want something to respond to? The Bible says the earth is a few thousand years old, how did this get here?

Where exactly in the bible does it say the Earth is 2000 years old?

Originally Posted by ShadowNightWing

This is more of a standard case of linage. What you are assuming regarding if there is a contradiction is highly inaccurate. Take special notice of the main assumption in your argument. Children that carries their parents genes are the only ones considered to be legal decedents. This assumption can display a wide array of inaccuracies.

Legal kinship standings can be related to either genes or marriage, we see this in everyday life. Rather or not the physical gene came from Joseph is irrelevant in this case.

I realize the whole debate over parenthood and the relationship attachment styles.

However, the passages explicitly state 'seed' in reference to both God and Joseph. Maybe you could help me understand 'seed' in this respect because it seems quite contrary to what you are saying.

Either way, this is a very mundane detail that only proves my original point; there are vagaries and severe problems with the bible's interpretations. Furthermore, imagine that this is a translation and what the original actually says. The very point I was trying to make is that there are severe problems with the bible and I honestly think it ought not be followed by any sane person.

~

I found some intesesting facts about the bible.

There have been hundreds of books written on the subject of the evidences of the divine inspiration of the Bible, and these evidences are many and varied. Most people today, unfortunately, have not read any of these books. In fact, few have even read the Bible itself! Thus, many people tend to go along with the popular delusion that the Bible is full of mistakes and is no longer relevant to our modern world.

Nevertheless the Bible writers claimed repeatedly that they were transmitting the very Word of God, infallible and authoritative in the highest degree. This is an amazing thing for any writer to say, and if the forty or so men who wrote the Scriptures were wrong in these claims, then they must have been lying, or insane, or both.

But, on the other hand, if the greatest and most influential book of the ages, containing the most beautiful literature and the most perfect moral code ever devised, was written by deceiving fanatics, then what hope is there for ever finding meaning and purpose in this world?

If one will seriously investigate these Biblical evidences, he will find that their claims of divine inspiration (stated over 3,000 times, in various ways) were amply justified.

Fulfilled Prophecies

The remarkable evidence of fulfilled prophecy is just one case in point. Hundreds of Bible prophecies have been fulfilled, specifically and meticulously, often long after the prophetic writer had passed away.

For example, Daniel the prophet predicted in about 538 BC (Daniel 9:24-27) that Christ would come as Israel's promised Savior and Prince 483 years after the Persian emperor would give the Jews authority to rebuild Jerusalem, which was then in ruins. This was clearly and definitely fulfilled, hundreds of years later.

There are extensive prophecies dealing with individual nations and cities and with the course of history in general, all of which have been literally fulfilled. More than 300 prophecies were fulfilled by Christ Himself at His first coming. Other prophecies deal with the spread of Christianity, as well as various false religions, and many other subjects.

There is no other book, ancient or modern, like this. The vague, and usually erroneous, prophecies of people like Jeanne Dixon, Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, and others like them are not in the same category at all, and neither are other religious books such as the Koran, the Confucian Analects, and similar religious writings. Only the Bible manifests this remarkable prophetic evidence, and it does so on such a tremendous scale as to render completely absurd any explanation other than divine revelation.

Unique Historical Accuracy


The historical accuracy of the Scriptures is likewise in a class by itself, far superior to the written records of Egypt, Assyria, and other early nations. Archeological confirmations of the Biblical record have been almost innumerable in the last century. Dr. Nelson Glueck, probably the greatest modern authority on Israeli archeology, has said:

"No archeological discovery has ever controverted a Biblical reference. Scores of archeological findings have been made which confirm in clear outline or in exact detail historical statements in the Bible. And, by the same token, proper evaluation of Biblical descriptions has often led to amazing discoveries."

Scientific Accuracy

Another striking evidence of divine inspiration is found in the fact that many of the principles of modern science were recorded as facts of nature in the Bible long before scientist confirmed them experimentally. A sampling of these would include:

* Roundness of the earth (Isaiah 40:22)
* Almost infinite extent of the sidereal universe (Isaiah 55:9)
* Law of conservation of mass and energy (II Peter 3:7)
* Hydrologic cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:7)
* Vast number of stars (Jeremiah 33:22)
* Law of increasing entropy (Psalm 102:25-27)
* Paramount importance of blood in life processes (Leviticus 17:11)
* Atmospheric circulation (Ecclesiastes 1:6)
* Gravitational field (Job 26:7)
* and many others.

These are not stated in the technical jargon of modern science, of course, but in terms of the basic world of man's everyday experience; nevertheless, they are completely in accord with the most modern scientific facts.

It is significant also that no real mistake has ever been demonstrated in the Bible—in science, in history, or in any other subject. Many have been claimed, of course, but conservative Bible scholars have always been able to work out reasonable solutions to all such problems.

Unique Structure

The remarkable structure of the Bible should also be stressed. Although it is a collection of 66 books, written by 40 or more different men over a period of 2,000 years, it is clearly one Book, with perfect unity and consistency throughout.

The individual writers, at the time of writing, had no idea that their message was eventually to be incorporated into such a Book, but each nevertheless fits perfectly into place and serves its own unique purpose as a component of the whole. Anyone who diligently studies the Bible will continually find remarkable structural and mathematical patterns woven throughout its fabric, with an intricacy and symmetry incapable of explanation by chance or collusion.

The one consistent theme of the Bible, developing in grandeur from Genesis to Revelation, is God's great work in the creation and redemption of all things, through His only Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Bible's Unique Effect


The Bible is unique also in terms of its effect on individual men and on the history of nations. It is the all-time best seller, appealing both to hearts and minds, beloved by at least some in every race or nation or tribe to which it has gone, rich or poor, scholar or simple, king or commoner, men of literally every background and walk of life. No other book has ever held such universal appeal nor produced such lasting effects.

One final evidence that the Bible is true is found in the testimony of those who have believed it. Multitudes of people, past and present, have found from personal experience that its promises are true, its counsel is sound, its commands and restrictions are wise, and its wonderful message of salvation meets every need for both time and eternity.

I imagine we've all had this conflict. It can really frustrate us if we're not careful. However, if we can learn to listen and think, God can give us confidence in the face of any argument.

It is interesting to note that most people who argue against Christianity are only “parroting” what they have heard. If pressed to explain what they mean, or to give examples, they do not know what to say. For example, someone may say, "The Bible is full of mistakes." But they are at a loss when asked to provide an example. As we learn to listen and ask good questions, we can respond with confidence and patience.

Another reason people argue is because they do not wish to submit their life to Jesus. People do not wish to admit their sin, so they cover things up with fancy sounding arguments. You may ask, "If I answered all of your questions, would you submit your life to Jesus?" Many times they will say, “no”, and end the conversation.

As Christians, we must work hard to know the truth and know how to recognize worldviews (the way a person thinks and the reasoning behind a person's thoughts). We must be patient and loving, as well, as wise.

"Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander."
I Peter 3:15b-16 (NIV)

"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth."
II Timothy 2:15 (NIV)

"Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will."
II Timothy 2:23-26 (NIV)

Read some some quality books that will teach you how to think and “see” false views and false questions. Josh McDowell has a good collection of such books. More Than a Carpenter is a good book to start with.

Remember, most people are only repeating what they have heard teachers, media, or other people say. Don't panic when you face opposition. Learn to listen, think, and how to ask them specifically what they mean.
Two men. Photo copyrighted.

Most importantly, stick to talking about God's plan of salvation (John 14:6). Don't chase rabbits! If you do not know something, just tell them you'll look it up and talk to them about it later. Make sure you stick to the good news of Jesus!

Originally Posted by kingerman

I found some bullshit opinions about the bible.

That's a suprise

Bahahaha. Can you say "propaganda"?

Of course, those people have no agenda whatsoever, right? But hey, I'd expect that from someone who puts this ignorant bullshit in his sig:

Evolution is an enabler for atheism.

Evolution is the “creation theory” for the religion of atheism.

No it isn't on both counts. You're a moron!

Then name one atheist that does not support evolution?
I say it is an enabler because when you ask any atheist why they don't believe in God they would say evidence,science,EVOLUTION etc.

I am a nihilist, hence an atheist, and I don't "support" evolution. Yet, this far it is the most logical and probable reasoning of how we have come to be what we are at the moment. I am ready to discard it, however, as soon as they discover a more logical reasoning. There is evidence of it, a real concrete evidence, so it is a more probable.

And for your earlier comment, I don't think evolution as more probable solution merely because it has concrete evidence and is being properly studied. It is more about the fact that religion has none.

Originally Posted by kingerman

Then name one atheist that does not support evolution?
I say it is an enabler because when you ask any atheist why they don't believe in God they would say evidence,science,EVOLUTION etc.

Definitely. If there was no evolution theory I'd instantly start believing that a snake made someone eat an apple which sent billions to eternal torment. It is so clear.

I know that if Darwin never existed, I'd definitely pick Christianity out of all the religions out there! It's so obvious that the "rib-woman theory" is correct, I just like denying it because I want to go and sin!

Evolution is the “creation theory”

No it isn't. Evolution has nothing to do with any form of creation. Typical ignorance. I'd like to know why you think you can comment on the nature of a subject you don't even know the basics of.

for the

No it isn't. Evolution has nothing to do with atheism.

religion of atheism.

Atheism is not a region. It's a lack of belief in one of the billions of gods invented by primitive men. There are no religious festivals, no churches, no prayers, no special treatment. It lacks all the hallmarks of a religion for a very good reason: it isn't one.

Evolution is an enabler for atheism.

No, intelligence is an enabler for atheism.

Intelligent people tend to be better at reasoning and logic

People better at reasoning and logic tend to see the value of science more, and have a better understanding of it.

People better at reasoning and logic tend to be able to see the lack thereof in religions as well as the general absurdities, self-conflicting nature, and the conflicting nature with countless other religions.

Those who understand science almost always accept evolution in the broad sense, even if some of the specific mechanisms are not quite understood. Partly due to a closer examination of the evidence, and partly due to understanding the process that gave the evidence.


Oh, and gotta love getting infractions from biased mods.

Originally Posted by kingerman

Then name one atheist that does not support evolution?
I say it is an enabler because when you ask any atheist why they don't believe in God they would say evidence,science,EVOLUTION etc.

I can name many Christians who accept evolution as a fact.

Originally Posted by kingerman

I say it is an enabler because when you ask any atheist why they don't believe in God they would say evidence,science,EVOLUTION etc.

The reason I don't believe in a god is religion not science.