Thread: Homosexuality

Because homosexuality means you don't reproduce.

Originally Posted by sheogorath

Because homosexuality means you don't reproduce.

Reproduction to the Christian should be bad, because it means that more people go to hell.

What? why would it mean that? Not all Chrstians are Johoba's Witnesses

Originally Posted by sheogorath

What? why would it mean that? Not all Chrstians are Johoba's Witnesses

Jehovah's witnesses don't believe in hell. Thank goodness...

What I mean is, if hell is real, then you're either coming into the world in order to be tortured forever, or you're coming into the world in order to watch or know that others are being tortured forever. Both of them are equally hellish and it is useless to suggest that you can possibly be in heaven when a hell exists (which is why I cream my pants when Christians say that there is).

So, it doesn't matter whether your child goes to hell or not, they'll still be in hell! By bringing them into the world you automatically damn them. And the Catholic Church also believes this admittedly, though curiously, they have the most children (my sadist senses are tingling).

So, on these premises, it is inhumane for the majority of Christians to have children.

If you don't like the religion, leave the religion. A religion should conform to your beliefs, not you to it!

If you're gay... feel free to express it man. what do you think is better: being and loving yourself as you are, as you were created, or acting like something your not and hating yourself your entire life??? Don't fight nature.

Thats what I have to say.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

Reproduction to the Christian should be bad, because it means that more people go to hell.

Uh and more people will go to heaven too. :l

Go forth and multiply, remember?

hear are a few things the Bible says. Before you read realise that I don't hate those who are gay. It is your life, do as you please. secondly TL, i'm not sure if you are a Christian or not. If not, why are you worried if it is a sin?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Leviticus 18:22 (KJV): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind it is abomination."

Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Romans 1:18-32
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Originally Posted by davej

hear are a few things the Bible says. Before you read realise that I don't hate those who are gay. It is your life, do as you please. secondly TL, i'm not sure if you are a Christian or not. If not, why are you worried if it is a sin?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Leviticus 18:22 (KJV): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind it is abomination."

Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Romans 1:18-32
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Unbelievable! Can you please try to say something about this subject without quoting the bible?? You know, use your own mind to communicate... Otherwise, your post is just useless.

Why do you find homosexuality a sin?

Why do you find homosexuality a sin?

I gave you the reasons, among other scriptures that i didn't quote. If you would like me to continue quoteing i will.

The question was why is homosexuality a sin...Well, you will have to look to the Bible to find the answer.

The problem with making a religion conform to one's beliefs, rather than oneself to the religion, is that religions do make statements of fact (eg. "you will go to hell if you leave this religion"). If they happen to be true, well then you're fscked. That would be like trying to make the grand canyon conform to one's beliefs that "I can fly" . Fortunately it is unlikely that there will be any actual devine repercussions for being gay (or for anything else), so we can all rest in peace .

As for why being gay might be a sin: it's in the book. If that's not enough reason then I might conjecture that it relates to either (1) a union between two men departing from god's vision of the perfect world of adam and eve, or (2) maybe the people who wrote the bible thought they would chuck it in to get back at some gay enemies they had, or just thought homosexuality was yucky and wanted to get rid of it.

Okay, but why not cite the other parts, then?

6 " 'I will set my face against the person who turns to mediums and spiritists to prostitute himself by following them, and I will cut him off from his people.

7 " 'Consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am the LORD your God. 8 Keep my decrees and follow them. I am the LORD, who makes you holy. [b]

9 " 'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.

10 " 'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

11 " 'If a man sleeps with his father's wife, he has dishonored his father. Both the man and the woman must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

12 " 'If a man sleeps with his daughter-in-law, both of them must be put to death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be on their own heads.

13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

14 " 'If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you.

15 " 'If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal.

16 " 'If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

17 " 'If a man marries his sister, the daughter of either his father or his mother, and they have sexual relations, it is a disgrace. They must be cut off before the eyes of their people. He has dishonored his sister and will be held responsible.

18 " 'If a man lies with a woman during her monthly period and has sexual relations with her, he has exposed the source of her flow, and she has also uncovered it. Both of them must be cut off from their people.

19 " 'Do not have sexual relations with the sister of either your mother or your father, for that would dishonor a close relative; both of you would be held responsible.

20 " 'If a man sleeps with his aunt, he has dishonored his uncle. They will be held responsible; they will die childless.

21 " 'If a man marries his brother's wife, it is an act of impurity; he has dishonored his brother. They will be childless.

Yet you don't see www.godhatesparentcursing.com or www.godhatesadultery.com . Seriously. Religious zealots only berry-pick from the Bible according to what they feel like. There is plenty to pick off, so it's not a hard job at all.

I used to be a very dedicated christian and consider myself enlightened on the subject of christian doctorine.

God made woman to have sex with man and vice a versa, the purpose of this was to produce children to fill the earth with the human race. Homosexuality does not acomplish this, it just provides pleasure to the men (or women) preforming the act. This is seen as a perversion of god's intention of sex and thus is a sin.

Originally Posted by Lucid_boy

I used to be a very dedicated christian and consider myself enlightened on the subject of christian doctorine.

God made woman to have sex with man and vice a versa, the purpose of this was to produce children to fill the earth with the human race. Homosexuality does not acomplish this, it just provides pleasure to the men (or women) preforming the act. This is seen as a perversion of god's intention of sex and thus is a sin.

I lol'd. I don't know if speaking lies about god is a sin.

So, we are all discussing Sin but we haven't discussed what SIN means. The Judeo/Christian/Muslim monotheism is the only root religions that has the concept of SIN. And it is the only religion that has the concept of Evil. So by asking WHY is homosexuality a sin means that you are assuming that Evil is real and Sin is real. So what is it? What is SIN? I think that the answer would be disobeying God. It is funny also that this is the only root religion that has a Jealous God as the creator of humans. A God without a Goddess, could he be gay himself? Why has he not married? Why did he send the holy ghost to impregnate Mary with his seed if he could've done it himself?

I think that JHVH (Jehovah) may be in the closet. He needs to come out.

But seriously, what is SIN?

there are some who've suggested that Jesus had a homosexual relationship with John.

as far as sin, I've always thought that it was any action or thought against god, rather than a specific outline or set of rules. it is more flexible than the latter, I think.

and it does say in 1 John 4:8 that "...God is love."

if that is true, then why would it be wrong for a man to be in a loving, sexual relationship with another man?

Originally Posted by VoyageurNocturne

If you don't like the religion, leave the religion. A religion should conform to your beliefs, not you to it!

There's only one religion that is true in this world and we don't get to pick it.

Originally Posted by Xei

Uh and more people will go to heaven too. :l

Do you know any non-sinner? In the bible, sinners had to live the rest of their lives in the desert to get in God kingdoms. Do you need to be a saint to get there or is it okay if you sin one in a while and you apologize to God but you keep going anyways because that's what everyone does.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

So, we are all discussing Sin but we haven't discussed what SIN means. The Judeo/Christian/Muslim monotheism is the only root religions that has the concept of SIN. And it is the only religion that has the concept of Evil. So by asking WHY is homosexuality a sin means that you are assuming that Evil is real and Sin is real. So what is it? What is SIN? I think that the answer would be disobeying God. It is funny also that this is the only root religion that has a Jealous God as the creator of humans. A God without a Goddess, could he be gay himself? Why has he not married? Why did he send the holy ghost to impregnate Mary with his seed if he could've done it himself?

I think that JHVH (Jehovah) may be in the closet. He needs to come out.

But seriously, what is SIN?

Haha! I love your answer!

I have to agree that God is very jealous... His three first commendments are about how you should not believe in anyone else than him and how you should celebrate the Sabbat which is His day. Jealousy is one of the sins. God is a sinner.

SIN is something that is moreally wrong isn't it? But in God's opinion or something....

And for the original question, I don't personally know nor care. If you're gay, be gay if you feel its what you want to be. Hell cannot exist unless a God was evil enough to enjoy looking at people suffering from the worst torture. If God really didn't want to have sinners go in Heaven than why would he just not destroy the people's soul and all. he could just make them banish so they would rest in peace for ever and no one would need to suffer except for the rare people who go in heaven and know their love ones are inexisting which is better than suffering.

Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

There's only one religion that is true in this world and we don't get to pick it.

And that "religion" would be Agnosticism. Embrace it, folks. NO ONE REALLY KNOWS!

Originally Posted by davej

hear are a few things the Bible says. Before you read realise that I don't hate those who are gay. It is your life, do as you please. secondly TL, i'm not sure if you are a Christian or not. If not, why are you worried if it is a sin?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Leviticus 18:22 (KJV): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind it is abomination."

Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Romans 1:18-32
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

I know these scriptures exist. It's just that Leviticus is a part of the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant is totally invalid if you're a Christian, and it contains inhumane laws such as putting people to death and selling children into slavery. This explains why Paul mentions it, because it is part of the Jewish mindset. Like I said beforehand, it's not as if Paul had his vision and then Jesus quickly asked him to rub in that thing about the homos. A Christian can only accept this if Paul is speaking with God's authority, but he also says that it is a discrace for a man to have long hair, as if God cares. He also says that women should keep silent. Didn't he know that in the Gospels it would be written that half the people who go around spreading the word of the Messiah when he was going around healing demons would be women!

In short, what I am trying to say is if we can accept that Paul was including his own ideas in his text, homosexuality remains a morally neutral concept to the Christian. This perhaps becomes more clear if you study the personality of Paul. Paul also says that "Love covers a multitude of sins". Homosexuality, being primarily about intimate love, and allowing the couple to love others more like most partnerships, can therefore be included. If Christians complain that this clashes with what he says about homosexuals, then don't tell us about it, you've just shown us that your infallable book is contradictory.

adulterery + love = NO
heartless + love = NO
slanderers + love = NO
arrogant + love = NO
insolent + love = NO
senseless + love = NO
thieves + love = NO
greedy + love = NO
drunkards + love = NO
homosexuals = love = YES!!!!

My take on it is that since Paul was called to preach to the Gentile nations, having been a staunch Jew all his life he was very quick to pick up on the 'perversions' that other cultures, such as Ancient Greece, had. Greece was one of the places where homosexuality and pederasty was glorified, and it was certainly accepted in the Roman world. He did this because he was trying to identify the cause of their differences. In almost all of his rantings that you have quoted, he is relating it somehow with the fact that these nations don't believe in Jesus Christ. In other words, he wants the whole world to be Jewish! The real Jesus on the other hand was totally against the worship of old laws and even corrected many of them. He was a revolutionary! I'm not saying Jesus would think it was okay, his words on sex are staunch and unrealistic.

In this day and age if Jesus saw preachers clinging to their verses just like the Pharisees did, I don't think he would be too pleased. There's a reason why we don't have the "Gospel of Jesus"!

It's funny (or sad?) how people create a whole new universe that defines their point of view, around a fictional book.

Originally Posted by SweetMelancholy

It's funny (or sad?) how people create a whole new universe that defines their point of view, around a fictional book.

Do you mean that fictional book that is actually 66 books which were written with spiritual intent? Well, most of them anyway.

Basically sin is about morals. Now I ask you, in your heart, do you believe that if there is a god is it a force of nature like lightning and thunder, or rather a creature that has human morals?

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

Basically sin is about morals. Now I ask you, in your heart, do you believe that if there is a god is it a force of nature like lightning and thunder, or rather a creature that has human morals?

Certainly the former.
But many would say the latter.
That shows us just how much we can trust us hearts.

I'm a Roman Catholic, and I can try to explain why Roman Catholics, at least, view the acts of homosexuality as sinful.

First, we believe that marriage is sacred. A man and a woman get married, and they make babies. Hooray. This was instituted by God (Adam and Eve, etc.), and Jesus said some things about marriage, too. I can't remember them verbatim, and I don't feel like looking them up, but I do know that they were specifically about heterosexual relationships. This is why premarital sex, etc. is bad. No marriage. Also, marriage should be entered into with the expectation that babies are a possibility. (No celibate marriages, lol.)

Second, in order for sex not to be sinful, there needs to be two things: pleasure and the possibility of creating life. Sex without pleasure (rape, etc.) is sinful, and sex without the possibility of creating life is sinful.

The latter is why Roman Catholics (or real ones, at least--not the name-only ones) believe that homosexuality (no pregnancy there), contraception (also no pregnancy), and other things like masturbation (duh) are sinful.

I don't expect this to convince anyone, but I figured that I could at least explain my understanding of why Roman Catholics see homosexual acts as wrong. If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.

Ah, so now we know the root of the problem. Question remains as how to best extricate it from society.