Thread: Question for Atheists.

God, The Universe, Consciousness... is there a difference? I truly don't think there is.

There is.

Originally Posted by Cosmix

God, The Universe, Consciousness... is there a difference? I truly don't think there is.

Ah, a Pantheist!

Originally Posted by sora12

Hello there.
I am interested in knowing when some of you who are Atheist became/ realized you were atheist and or how? (Sorry if I worded the question in a weird way.) Lately, I've been doubting my belief in God. I grew up all my life believing in him and I've never really given a second thought to his existence. So I just wanted to see if anybody went through a similar experience before they became Atheist and stuff like that.

Sora, I went through the exact same thing VERY VERY recently. It was very hard and upsetting, I went through everything you described and this was right before I was going to my Christian Camp.

During the worship there I wasn't feeling God at all (I usually don't)

But some kid from my youth group, I discovered he was agnostic and for some mysterious reason... Even though at the time I myself was questioning God I felt like I NEEDED to TRY and bring him to Christianity. I really DONT KNOW WHY! It was an innate feeling, I couldn't control it.

I think God put that in my heart. Now he is, in his own words "Agnostic, kind-of on the fence"

Still no REAL AMAZING thing, but that just clicked with me.

I know there is a God and I hope you make the right choice (But really, I don't mean to offend any Atheists or anyone else. I mean it)

Also check out this:

Does God Exist - Six Reasons to Believe that God is Really There - Existence of God - Proof of God

I have ALWAYS been a science geek and I'm not sure if you knew this but. From the tiniest Cell to the giant galaxies... Just WOW... Couldn't be an accident in my opinion....

God Bless...

I wonder what the percentage of people who become atheist, or convert to atheism, or whatever you want to call it, were Christian to begin with? It seems very high. It seems to me that most atheists who used to believe in God were Christian.

Originally Posted by eperbokor

Yeah but don't make definitions what they aren't. An atheist is a godless person. Be it disbelief or refuting the existence.
I highly doubt a newborn believes in anything at all, not to mention a god. Therefore you were born an atheist.

But, the bible says. If you are not old enough to comprehend the concept of a God etc. Then you are saved...

Originally Posted by Mario92

Magic sky fairy and flying spaghetti monster are arguments used to show the absolute ridiculousness of believing something with no evidence of it. The magic sky fairy is, in essence, what most Christians believe in. An omnipotent being that created man after his own image that you can't see. Heaven is often portrayed as being in the sky, where God awaits and watches every little thing every person does, while simultaneously listening to a billion people murmur at the same time. I think it's a rather apt analogy.

None of this changes the fact that these are arguments out of mere bias and rhetoric. There is no mature discussion here, it is just childish nonsense. I am sure if these were genuine arguments, religion would instead be all be about flying spaghetti monsters, and not Divine Reality. But they're not. There are plenty of differences; it is plainly obvious that anybody who uses these arguments are simply there to mock rather than to understand. Besides, to substitute a poor example such as "magic sky fairy" for an omnipotent being only demonstrates that they clearly have no idea of what the term means.

Originally Posted by really

None of this changes the fact that these are arguments out of mere bias and rhetoric. There is no mature discussion here, it is just childish nonsense. I am sure if these were genuine arguments, religion would instead be all be about flying spaghetti monsters, and not Divine Reality. But they're not. There are plenty of differences; it is plainly obvious that anybody who uses these arguments are simply there to mock rather than to understand. Besides, to substitute a poor example such as "magic sky fairy" for an omnipotent being only demonstrates that they clearly have no idea of what the term means.

None of this changes the fact that I think you're biased against satire. It shows excessive maturity and a lack of ability to remove the pole from your ass. There is no fun banter here, just adult seriousness. I'm sure if these were genuine arguments, there wouldn't be at least two people cracking up in this thread. But they're not. There are plenty of differences; it is blatantly clear that anybody who uses these arguments are simply there to mock and show how absolutely absurd organized religion is. Besides, to imply that "magic" = "omnipotent" only demonstrates that they clearly have no respect for people who actually swallow the bullshit of the latter term.

And if u don't c wut i did thar, you're beyond hope.

Why is a magic sky fairy not omnipotent? FUCKING MAGIC! HOW DOES IT WORK?

See, the more intelligent person would be able to use genuine, realistic terms rather than mere rhetoric or satire. And they don't seek to poke fun, they seek to have a mature debate, at least, and to understand.

Until that happens, I won't be participating here any longer.

Originally Posted by really

See, the more intelligent person would be able to use genuine, realistic terms rather than mere rhetoric or satire. And they don't seek to poke fun, they seek to have a mature debate, at least, and to understand.

Until that happens, I won't be participating here any longer.

And another one gone
And another one gone
Another one bites the dust!

Bro, you gotta learn to not take life so seriously. Life is funny. Religion is funny. If you can't laugh at how absurd it is, what can you laugh at? Use of satire is not a mark of stupidity...if anything, I'd call it a mark of wisdom. That person has learned how to enjoy life. No matter how spiritual you are, no matter what god you believe in, if you can't poke fun at yourself, you've missed the point of life entirely. Go out, have fun, shag some ladies, and don't take yourself so seriously. No groundbreaking discoveries are going to happen in your lifetime. No god will be proven in your meager existence on this earth. Accept that you don't know any more than I do, and don't let the nearly infinitely improbable possibility of a heaven/hell slow you down. You've got 80 years. Have fun with them.

Ok so growing up as a lutheren we got a firm understanding of what and who god is. Based on the bible and some reasonable conjecture. Now to preface this i dont go to church anymore and i dont consider myself a christian for my own reasons that i can go into after this explanation. I'll make bible quotes from memory and dont ask me to cite the verse or book as i have not remembered the spot in years now.

There are some basic concepts to understand first. Simply god is perfect and man is not...man cannot become perfect.....man can't do good works to make up for not being perfect....man was born into sin by being human.

The wages of sin is death. Or that is what you get by being born human. God is perfect therefore he can't abide someone or something not being perfect as that would make him imperfect. Now bear with me as this is gonna get more in depth.

Now in the old testament or the old jewish kabal the only way to get around this little problem was offering up something else to die for your sin....ala sacrificing the cow goat or something you considered to be of huge value to you. Back then cows and goats gave food, cheese nourishment and in an arid environment without a stable way to get food on the hoof life was very likely not gonna last. There where a few stories of dads willing to kill their child when asked....think it was abraham off the top of my head.

In the old testament god gave moses a few laws to follow to try to bridge that gap that being human threw in the mix. I'm sure you can guess what they are and if you find yourself a copy of luthers small catechism you can read thru it all yourself. Had to memorize all of that for communion and i've happily forgotten most of it unless i try and then it pops right back in.

Now this is where the faith part of this post comes in. Faith is believing in something without proof... period. That is where the idea of the Trinity comes in. The thing about god jesus and the holy spirit being just 3 parts of a whole. Think of it like an umpire crew for baseball

In the new testament that is where jesus being born of god and man and being born perfect and not with inherited sin comes in. The crux of the new testament is that the old jewish laws no longer apply....think of them more like a reference to an ancient people and a history lesson more then anything else. So how do you get around the idea of having to die for sins in order to bridge the gap between god and man? Simply god dies as part of the Trinity in jesus in order to make the perfect sacrifice for everybody. If there is any doubt as to the interpretation of this go read the crucifix story and the part about the inner tabernacle of the temple drape getting torn down in two.....symbolizing the stop of the rift between god and man. Before that only those who had made the proper sacrifices could approach the jewish guys who actually went into that spot...supposedly where god resided in the temple.

Now sorry for that long and pretty basic explantion about how that works but had to get it out of the way first so i could make my point.

The idea of being a christian is someone who is constantly in debt to god and therefore tries tolive perfect in the image of god...of course that is impossible as man is sinful....wants sinful things....does sinful things....and generally is a hedonist by nature. The idea that most people are generally good at heart makes me giggle a little bit. Those folks that say that have not seen enough of the world yet. Humans are quick to judge, put others down, minimize things and people and want things they dont either deserve or feel they are entitled to. There is a simple fact you can quote me on here. The human ability to justify ones actions has led to some of the worst and consistenly awful things and actions this world has ever seen. And most of that is because of religion. Christianty, islam whathaveyou.

In my opinion there is one thing is this world that is worse then all the rest. A hypocrite.

Most christians are hypocrites and so when i was about 15 i chose not to be one anymore because of the very simeple thing. This is the definition of hell. Being told that every sinful thoughtyou have about sex or anything else is going to send you to hell and being unable to stop your hormonal mind from doing it. I just chose not to be like everybody else at my church and stopped being a hypocrite.

Now i still beleive in god. I think some of the bible is most likely inspired by god. But how much of it was put in there to prop up an instition that could write its own history? When you think about it imo that is why the first holy roman emporer constantine chose christianity for the goverment religion. What better way to control the populace without having to worry about revolts and military uprisings then to guilt them into doing what you want and proclaiming your following gods will? And is some of the people are hypocrites like yourself fine then i can just blackmail them into the better ways of doing things....or call them witches and threaten to kill them.....

Sound familiar yet?

Religion is about power and making the populace do what you want without having to strongarm them.

Here is one last thought that i will leave you with. In the absence of the crutch for power that relgion brings how do you control the populace easily. Simply follow the liberal template and force the people to rely on goverment exclusively....for everything.

Originally Posted by really

See, the more intelligent person would be able to use genuine, realistic terms rather than mere rhetoric or satire. And they don't seek to poke fun, they seek to have a mature debate, at least, and to understand.

Until that happens, I won't be participating here any longer.

Didn't we just say... that it's excessive maturity?

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

I wonder what the percentage of people who become atheist, or convert to atheism, or whatever you want to call it, were Christian to begin with? It seems very high. It seems to me that most atheists who used to believe in God were Christian.

That depends where you live. In England, probably at least 80% of the people i know consider themselves atheists, and none of them were ever religious.

I probably don't know enough members of religions other than christianity to know where most 'converts' come from, though.

Hmm yeah maybe that's cos like the largest western religion is like Christianity by a mile right so like with like basic logic and stuff right it seems obvious right that get this okay right that most of the atheists you meet will have been Christians you got that Dannon right by basic probability and logic and stuff okay right?

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

Ah, a Pantheist!

[=
Hi friend.

i think a few people went a bit off topic... The question was: "I am interested in knowing when some of you who are Atheist became/ realized you were atheist and or how?" I don't tag myself as atheist in the traditional sense, but I do not believe in an all-powerful being that created everything, nor do i believe in the devil, nor heaven or hell... whereas we can say we feel a place IS LIKE heaven (based on its current definition) but anyway...

I believe in what I can see, feel, taste, etc... I was raised catholic, got my confirmation, communion, etc... denouced the religion at 15 / 16 yrs old... because I felt that pagan religions and eastern religions that believed in duality were probably closer to the truth... Around my mind 20's to late 30s, I disbanded the belief in a higher power - and why - because throughout my life, real-life experiences, my 10 years in school, my philosophy degrees, countless discussions, and arguments with people that say I cannot disprove god (nor can they Prove god) etc., I realized that i have never personally experienced anything to make me believe in such stories. From birth about christmas and the easter bunny, eventually you come to realize they are metaphors for mores or ways of living. I live my life for me, but I am honest and respectful to others.

I disagree that if there were a god, he / she / it would be a tyrant and the classical argument there is that god gave free will to humans, so what we chose to do is our own faults / causes... every action re-action theory... some say that proves the existence of god with "That which nothing greater can be thought" but i think this is also incorrect... we can trace back to a point where logic states something must exist, we gave it a name, and claim to be right... the world was also flat at one point in history, and in the future we may travel to many other worlds....

let us not claim "WE KNOW" there is something / anything out there... we live and we experience and in that respect, i do not see a higher power adding or hurting my experiences in anyway, so therefore, I do not believe one exists.

In the end, ALWAYS decide for yourself what YOU believe.... please do not let anyone TELL you what to believe or that something is IMPOSSIBLE or 100% INFALLIBLE! Nothing is impossible as we CRAWL our short-existence through only this known universe.

Experience life

"I don't tag myself as an atheist..."
"I do not believe in an all-powerful being that created everything, nor do i believe in the devil, nor heaven or hell..."


That's atheist..

thank you for the useless reply. think and reply. build the conversation.


a·the·ist
   /ˈeɪθiɪst/ Show Spelled[ey-thee-ist] Show IPA
–noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

I know definitions of words, but many use them but not everyone conforms. I have no problem NOT conforming and living my life from my own experiences.

Non-conformism is often a virtuous practice, but when it comes to using words, all you're going to do is confuse people, which is really counter productive to the whole enterprise, isn't it?

Please use words to mean what they are defined to mean.

I've never heard of excessive maturity before.

good bye. thanks.

Originally Posted by Caprisun

I've never heard of excessive maturity before.

AKA too serious

I bet a topic titled "Question for Lucid Dreamers" would get less replies than this.. <.<