• Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




    Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 ... LastLast
    Results 1 to 25 of 151
    Like Tree17Likes

    Thread: How Good Are You At Reasoning?

    1. #1
      Xei
      UnitedKingdom Xei is offline
      Banned
      Join Date
      Aug 2005
      Posts
      9,984
      Likes
      3082

      Red face How Good Are You At Reasoning?

      Here's some questions, some of which are quite cool, which you have to be quite mathematically minded to answer. I wanted to see how good people are at thinking rationally but creatively on DV. I threw in a couple of standard psychological experiments too. Just do the ones you can. Feel free to add more.


      1. You have a row of 1,000 coins, all of which are heads up. You flip the second, fourth, sixth, and all other even coins over so that they're tails. Then you flip over the third, sixth, and all other coins which are multiples of three. Now you do this for every fourth coin, every fifth coin, etcetera, all the way up to every thousandth coin (which means just flipping the last one).

      The question is this: which coins are heads up, and why? There is a concise and surprising answer.


      2. What's the maximum number of pieces you can cut a pizza into using a cheese wire (i.e. straight cuts) if you can only cut six times? The pizza is to thin to cut horizontally, and too hot to pick up and move around.


      3. There's a 1% chance that the average person has cancer. Somebody with cancer has an 80% chance of testing positive when they go for a scan. Somebody without cancer has a 9.6% chance of testing positive (i.e. getting a false positive). You go for a scan and receive a positive result. What is the probability that you have cancer?


      4. 100 people out of a group of 10,000 are tree-huggers. You ask all 10,000 people if they hug trees or not. 80 out of the 100 people who hug trees are honest about it and say yes. 950 out of 9,900 people who don't hug trees also pretend that they do. What fraction of people who claim to hug trees are genuine tree-huggers?


      5. I have four cards with numbers on one side and colours on the other. I claim that cards with even numbers are red on the other side. I put the cards in front of you. They are

      1, 2, red, blue.

      Which cards do you need to turn over to check my claim?


      6. In the UK you can drink at 18. There are four people drinking at the bar. One is 21, one is 16, one is drinking coke, one is drinking beer. What do I have to check to make sure nobody is breaking the law?


      7. In any group of (two or more) people, there are always at least two people with the same number of friends in that group. True or false?

      N.B. you can only be friends with somebody who is friends with you!
      Last edited by Xei; 11-18-2011 at 11:55 PM.

    2. #2
      knows
      Join Date
      Mar 2007
      LD Count
      1billion+5
      Posts
      546
      Likes
      31
      "How good are you at reasoning"?

      I think I'm OK, how about you?
      I stomp on your ideas.

    3. #3
      Xei
      UnitedKingdom Xei is offline
      Banned
      Join Date
      Aug 2005
      Posts
      9,984
      Likes
      3082
      Okay I hope. But only 15% of professional doctors get the one about cancer correct, so we're in the minority, aren't we? Assuming of course that you can answer it, which you showed no evidence of.

    4. #4
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2006
      LD Count
      Lucid Now
      Gender
      Location
      3D
      Posts
      8,263
      Likes
      4135
      DJ Entries
      11
      These are tricky. I'm guessing 1 instinctively for the first question and 14 slices for the second. For the 3rd, I'm a little puzzled. 72.32?

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    5. #5
      Rational Spiritualist DrunkenArse's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2009
      Gender
      Location
      Da Aina
      Posts
      2,941
      Likes
      1091
      1, 5, and 6 are the ones that caught my eye.

      1) If we let D(n) denote the number of divisors of n that are not 1, then the coins at positions n such that D(n) is even will be in their initial state.

      [edit]
      Better:

      The coins in positions with odd numbers of divisors will be heads up.

      [/edit]

      5) To test the claim, one would turn over the card showing two and the blue card.
      When turning over the blue card, confirm that there's an odd number on it. (or there would be a blue and even card)
      When turning over the card showing two, confirm that it's red.

      6) That nobody under 18 is drinking.
      Last edited by PhilosopherStoned; 11-18-2011 at 09:52 PM.
      Previously PhilosopherStoned

    6. #6
      Xei
      UnitedKingdom Xei is offline
      Banned
      Join Date
      Aug 2005
      Posts
      9,984
      Likes
      3082
      1, 2 and 7 are probably the most interesting to think about as puzzles. The first two have especially pretty answers. The middle four are more about human intuition and psychology.

      You are right about the odd number of divisors thing, but there is a more concise way of saying it.

    7. #7
      Rational Spiritualist DrunkenArse's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2009
      Gender
      Location
      Da Aina
      Posts
      2,941
      Likes
      1091
      Ok ok, squares will be in their original state. For 7, is friendship reflexive?
      Previously PhilosopherStoned

    8. #8
      Xei
      UnitedKingdom Xei is offline
      Banned
      Join Date
      Aug 2005
      Posts
      9,984
      Likes
      3082
      No, but it is symmetric.

      And of course, the point of the coins question is to provide a reason. Anybody can assert an answer after checking a few cases.

    9. #9
      Psychedelic Achievements:
      Referrer Bronze Created Dream Journal Tagger Second Class Made Friends on DV 1000 Hall Points Veteran First Class
      LikesToTrip's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      Gender
      Location
      OK
      Posts
      653
      Likes
      195
      DJ Entries
      3
      1. oxxoxxxxoxxxxxxoxxxxxxxx etc etc
      2. 64 assuming I can reorientate the pizza between slices.
      3. I'm a little confused on this one. I'm thinkin 1%. I'll ponder it a little longer though.
      4. 80/1030
      5. You didn't limit my card flips. I will flip them all.
      6. The IDs of those drinking alcohol.....
      7. False. You never claimed friendship had to be mutual.

      EDIT: looks like you changed the rules on the last question so my answer no longer applies. Don't have time to rethink it at the moment.
      Last edited by LikesToTrip; 11-18-2011 at 10:45 PM.

    10. #10
      Member Achievements:
      1 year registered 1000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class

      Join Date
      Dec 2005
      Gender
      Location
      UK
      Posts
      1,174
      Likes
      65
      Okay, I'll bite: I'll probably fall into all the traps..

      1) I'm not atall mathematical, but I notice that the first and second coins remain untouched.. and seeing as you said that the answer was concise and surprising, I'm gonna guess 2; [BTW.. a "stack" of 1000 coins? How does one flip without dismantling the stack?]

      2) Using 2D for a few minutes, I managed 19; but some sort of nagging voice is saying something about dual parallel perspective in 3D;

      3) 4 in 5;

      4) 80/1030ths = 40/515ths;

      5) a) All of them: any card could have been tampered with;

      b) None of them: make sure that the cards are placed on a glass table and look from underneath;

      6) First you need to check if the bar needs a license: it could be a bar built in one's living room, i.e. private- the UK 18-year-old thing only applies in certain premises;

      7) False: could be any group of people who don't like each other.

    11. #11
      Psychedelic Achievements:
      Referrer Bronze Created Dream Journal Tagger Second Class Made Friends on DV 1000 Hall Points Veteran First Class
      LikesToTrip's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      Gender
      Location
      OK
      Posts
      653
      Likes
      195
      DJ Entries
      3
      Quote Originally Posted by Oneiro View Post
      7) False: could be any group of people who don't like each other.
      If they don't like each other. They all have 0 friends in the group so it would be true.

    12. #12
      Member Achievements:
      1 year registered 1000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class

      Join Date
      Dec 2005
      Gender
      Location
      UK
      Posts
      1,174
      Likes
      65
      Oooh! Clever.. I said I'd fall into all the traps..

      (Is zero a number?)

    13. #13
      Xei
      UnitedKingdom Xei is offline
      Banned
      Join Date
      Aug 2005
      Posts
      9,984
      Likes
      3082
      Quote Originally Posted by LikesToTrip View Post
      1. oxxoxxxxoxxxxxxoxxxxxxxx etc etc
      2. 64 assuming I can reorientate the pizza between slices.
      3. I'm a little confused on this one. I'm thinkin 1%. I'll ponder it a little longer though.
      4. 80/1030
      5. You didn't limit my card flips. I will flip them all.
      6. The IDs of those drinking alcohol.....
      7. False. You never claimed friendship had to be mutual.

      EDIT: looks like you changed the rules on the last question so my answer no longer applies. Don't have time to rethink it at the moment.
      1. What do you mean by etcetera?
      2. How come?
      4. Yep.
      5. But I did ask which ones you need to flip, and you don't need to flip them all.
      6. Why would you need their IDs? The question tells you their ages.
      7. Are you sure it'd be false? But okay, I clarified it.

      Quote Originally Posted by Oneiro View Post
      Okay, I'll bite: I'll probably fall into all the traps..

      1) I'm not atall mathematical, but I notice that the first and second coins remain untouched.. and seeing as you said that the answer was concise and surprising, I'm gonna guess 2; [BTW.. a "stack" of 1000 coins? How does one flip without dismantling the stack?]

      2) Using 2D for a few minutes, I managed 19; but some sort of nagging voice is saying something about dual parallel perspective in 3D;

      3) 4 in 5;

      4) 80/1030ths = 40/515ths;

      5) a) All of them: any card could have been tampered with;

      b) None of them: make sure that the cards are placed on a glass table and look from underneath;

      6) First you need to check if the bar needs a license: it could be a bar built in one's living room, i.e. private- the UK 18-year-old thing only applies in certain premises;

      7) False: could be any group of people who don't like each other.
      1. I changed the question to a row of coins if that makes it clearer for you.
      2. That is close to my answer. Don't worry about 3D, the pizza is 2D.
      3. Way off.
      4. Yep.
      5. No tampering, no glass tables. None of these are trick questions.
      6. See above.
      7. What LikesToTrip said.
      Last edited by Xei; 11-18-2011 at 11:02 PM.

    14. #14
      Member Achievements:
      1 year registered 1000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class

      Join Date
      Dec 2005
      Gender
      Location
      UK
      Posts
      1,174
      Likes
      65
      3) Oh yeah! I just read the question properly.. 1%;

    15. #15
      Xei
      UnitedKingdom Xei is offline
      Banned
      Join Date
      Aug 2005
      Posts
      9,984
      Likes
      3082
      It's definitely not 1% either.

    16. #16
      Member Achievements:
      1 year registered 1000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class

      Join Date
      Dec 2005
      Gender
      Location
      UK
      Posts
      1,174
      Likes
      65
      I was referring to my brain power..

      2) I've managed 20 in 2D;

      A photon checks into a hotel and the concierge says: "Any luggage, Sir?" The photon replies: "No.. I'm travelling light.."
      tommo likes this.

    17. #17
      Member Photolysis's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2007
      Gender
      Posts
      1,270
      Likes
      316
      1. All primes will be tails. Since all non primes (save 1 which is not flipped) must have an even number of factors they will be flipped an even number of times and thus be heads.
      2. I managed 21 playing around trying to get the maximum number of intersections with each cut.
      3. 7.76% chance of actually having cancer with a positive result (or 800/10304 more precisely). For bonus points you have a 0.22% (or 200/89696 more accurately) chance of having cancer when you get a negative result.
      4. 80/1030 obviously.

      Will look at the rest later.
      Last edited by Photolysis; 11-18-2011 at 11:38 PM.

    18. #18
      Psychedelic Achievements:
      Referrer Bronze Created Dream Journal Tagger Second Class Made Friends on DV 1000 Hall Points Veteran First Class
      LikesToTrip's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      Gender
      Location
      OK
      Posts
      653
      Likes
      195
      DJ Entries
      3
      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      1. What do you mean by etcetera?
      2. How come?
      4. Yep.
      5. But I did ask which ones you need to flip, and you don't need to flip them all.
      6. Why would you need their IDs? The question tells you their ages.
      7. Are you sure it'd be false? But okay, I clarified it.
      1. There will always be 2 more tails in between each heads all the way up to 1000. Why it does this, I have no clue. I'm sure there is some mathematical or logical equation you could write that sums it up, but that is beyond me.
      2. Cut in in half and stack, cut in and half stack, cut in half and stack. You end up with 64 pieces. 2^6=64
      5. Herp a derp. I'm retarded. Flip the 2.
      6. You said four people. 21, 16, beer, coke. Aren't those the 4 people? We don't know the drinks of the 21/16 and we don't know the ages of the beer/coke. So we need to check the drink of the 16 and the age of the coke. Did I misinterpret the question?
      7. I think the answer is now true. I'm not completely sure though. I'll ponder it more.
      Last edited by LikesToTrip; 11-18-2011 at 11:43 PM.

    19. #19
      Xei
      UnitedKingdom Xei is offline
      Banned
      Join Date
      Aug 2005
      Posts
      9,984
      Likes
      3082
      Quote Originally Posted by Photolysis View Post
      1. All primes will be tails. Since all non primes (save 1 which is not flipped) must have an even number of factors they will be flipped an even number of times and thus be heads.
      2. I managed 21 playing around trying to get the maximum number of intersections with each cut.
      3. 7.76% chance of actually having cancer with a positive result (or 800/10304 more precisely)
      4. 80/1030 obviously.

      Will look at the rest later.
      1. Along the right lines, but doesn't check out with the actual numbers (2 is non-prime but tails for example).
      2. Pretty close. If you formalise your technique you should get it right. What about n cuts?
      3. Yep; via what general method did you do this? Why was 4 a more obvious question?

      Quote Originally Posted by LikesToTrip View Post
      1. There will always be 2 more tails in between each heads all the way up to 1000. Why it does this, I have no clue. I'm sure there is some mathematical or logical equation you could write that sums it up, but that is beyond me.
      2. Cut in in half stack, cut in half stack, cut in half stack. You end up with 64 pieces.
      5. Herp a derp. I'm retarded. Flip the 2.
      6. You said four people. 21, 16, beer, coke. Aren't those the 4 people? We don't know the drinks of the 21/16 and we don't know the ages of the beer/coke. So we need to check the drink of the 16 and the age of the coke. Did I misinterpret the question?
      7. I think the answer is now true. I'm not completely sure though. I'll ponder it more.
      1. Try numbering the coins for a more concise description of which ones are flipped.

      The point of this question is in giving a good reason. I recommend you mull it over. None of these questions require mathematical knowledge or skill. They just require you to think like a mathematician, which is the important bit.
      2. God damn you lateral thinkers. Okay no, no moving the pizza around.
      5. Nope. You fell into the psychological trap that the vast majority of people do.
      6. Yes that's completely right, and yes it is an easy question. The funny thing is this is logically identical to question 5.
      Last edited by Xei; 11-18-2011 at 11:47 PM.

    20. #20
      Banned
      Join Date
      Oct 2005
      Gender
      Posts
      4,571
      Likes
      1070
      You need to turn over 2 and blue. The claim is that all evens are red, however it's not specified that all reds are even. It doesn't matter if there is an uneven number on the other side of red. 2 is even and must be checked. Blue must be checked to ensure there is not an even number on it. 1 doesn't need to be checked since it isn't stated that odd numbered cards cannot be red.
      Xei likes this.

    21. #21
      knows
      Join Date
      Mar 2007
      LD Count
      1billion+5
      Posts
      546
      Likes
      31
      I need to work on my math

      Original answer
      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      Okay I hope. But only 15% of professional doctors get the one about cancer correct, so we're in the minority, aren't we? Assuming of course that you can answer it, which you showed no evidence of.
      OK. 3) If I have cancer, then I have an 80% chance of being tested positive. If I'm tested positive, then the chance of me being positive is now 100%. The results, however, have only a 9.6% chance of being false, meaning I have only a 9.6% chance of not having cancer. Therefore, if I'm tested positive, then I have a 90.4% chance of having cancer.
      Last edited by Somii; 11-18-2011 at 11:55 PM.
      I stomp on your ideas.

    22. #22
      Member Photolysis's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2007
      Gender
      Posts
      1,270
      Likes
      316
      1. Along the right lines, but doesn't check out with the actual numbers (2 is non-prime but tails for example).
      I was including 2 as a prime. Since when was it NOT a prime number, or am I misunderstanding you?

      3. Yep; via what general method did you do this? Why was 4 a more obvious question?
      Easier numbers to work with. #3 also requires working out how many in total will get a positive result, but you already give the equivalent in #4.

      2. Pretty close. If you formalise your technique you should get it right. What about n cuts?
      I'll have to think about a formal technique and on my answer.

    23. #23
      Member Achievements:
      1 year registered 1000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class

      Join Date
      Dec 2005
      Gender
      Location
      UK
      Posts
      1,174
      Likes
      65
      5) Don't flip any.. I trust you, Xei;

    24. #24
      Xei
      UnitedKingdom Xei is offline
      Banned
      Join Date
      Aug 2005
      Posts
      9,984
      Likes
      3082
      Quote Originally Posted by Photolysis View Post
      2 is non-prime
      Hahaha what a fantastic retard I am.

      Okay, consider 6. Flipped at 2, 3, 6. Even number of factors means getting flipped to tails because 1 isn't included, that was my point.

    25. #25
      knows
      Join Date
      Mar 2007
      LD Count
      1billion+5
      Posts
      546
      Likes
      31
      Hey, Xei, could look at my answer and tell me where I went wrong?
      I stomp on your ideas.

    Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 ... LastLast

    Similar Threads

    1. Drinks that are good for you, and taste good.
      By slayer in forum Fitness and Health
      Replies: 47
      Last Post: 09-16-2009, 01:33 AM
    2. Replies: 10
      Last Post: 12-03-2008, 01:15 AM
    3. Stupidity of Anecdotal Reasoning
      By O'nus in forum Philosophy
      Replies: 18
      Last Post: 10-23-2008, 09:48 PM
    4. Dreaming improves logic and reasoning
      By TransientOcclusion in forum Philosophy
      Replies: 8
      Last Post: 07-31-2008, 02:39 PM
    5. Good day, good evening and goodnight
      By Trillidan in forum Introduction Zone
      Replies: 6
      Last Post: 08-24-2005, 01:30 AM

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •